EEVBlog Video Length

[b_force]

Unfortunately I have to say that most of the well meant feedback given in this topic by multiple people doesn't seem to be taken serious.
Maybe it's just how it reads for me personally, maybe it's a cultural thing? 

I don't think it is a cultural thing. I think it is because it is actually deeper than just measuring the video length with a stop watch. As long as the deeper issues go unresolved the problem remains.

Take the channel that produces low light blurry handheld videos, you could complain or just choose not to watch or you would watch without complaint. But which option would you choose? And why? I think it would depend on your expectation and whether you felt cheated and had your time wasted by someone who normally would do better but decided their time was more important than yours.

If you wanted to help them you might take the time to suggest what your expectations are and what they could do to meet them. Either they work harder to meet them or you lower your expectations. Or you go elsewhere.

If you'd paid for the service based on a preexisting belief of the standard you should expect you would not hesitiate to complain if it failed to maintain that standard. If you are only investing your time then you have to be prepared to withdraw it. Fortunately on YT that is very easy to do.

Ehm for the record, I was talking about people giving well meant feedback and that they have to defend it so heavily.
Which is also considered pretty rude in some cultures btw (for your information).

It's also the point were I lost Dave.
He once said in a video that he couldn't care making certain videos anymore because no-one is watching them.
At the same time I don't feel he is considering feedback from people who actually care to nicely write down their arguments.
So at one point it does seem audience matters, but in this discussion it feels more like just do whatever he wants.
I find that very confusing and contradictory. 

Like I said, maybe I just misread it or it's a cultural difference.

He can make his videos any length he wants. Sometimes I do end up thinking "ok cool now get on with it!" and then I realize there's a transport bar so I can skip ahead to the next interesting bit.

Yep.

The same goes for people saying, "I'd personally rather see a complicated topic broken down into 2-3 shorter videos that follow in logical sequence vs one long one."

Isn't that what the "pause" button is for? 

I think we had a similar discussion before.
Pausing a video is absolutely not the same as an intended rest in a talk or speech.
That even goes for breaking things down into sections, sometimes certain theories, explanations or things need to settle down for a few days before continuing.

[wilfred]

So at one point it does seem audience matters, but in this discussion it feels more like just do whatever he wants.
I find that very confusing and contradictory.

If you go back far enough the EEVBlog was mostly claimed to be Dave doing whatever he wants. For better or worse it has seemed to do that in spite of whatever intentions strike Dave's fancy from time to time.

[nixfu]

Short videos are for people who are making content for the masses with short attention spans on topics like "Top 10 Types of Cheese Sandwiches".

Keep the long videos for gods sake.

[madires]

I'm waiting for someone making short videos titled "Top 10 jelly bean trannies" or "Top 10 power MOSFETs"

[Pete F]

And that's why some people like Pete seems to get so upset about this, they think it's an obvious improvement when the reality is more complex than that.

For the record Dave, Pete didn’t get “so upset about this”, In fact Pete couldn’t give less of a shit if he tried. What Pete in fact did was to offer some respectful feedback of his own experience and personal opinion in the hope of helping the the receiver. Meanwhile I would ask you to provide a quote where Pete has said, implied or otherwise asserted in any way that that he claimed the “improvement “ was obvious.

If you want to turn this in to some sort of federal case and argument, please leave my name out if it Dave, I have no interest in this sort of BS. I like your channel and value you experience, but have no interest in becoming involved in this type of discussion.

[Mr. Scram]

For the record Dave, Pete didn’t get “so upset about this”, In fact Pete couldn’t give less of a shit if he tried. What Pete in fact did was to offer some respectful feedback of his own experience and personal opinion in the hope of helping the the receiver. Meanwhile I would ask you to provide a quote where Pete has said, implied or otherwise asserted in any way that that he claimed the “improvement “ was obvious.

If you want to turn this in to some sort of federal case and argument, please leave my name out if it Dave, I have no interest in this sort of BS. I like your channel and value you experience, but have no interest in becoming involved in this type of discussion.

If I'm totally honest a lot of your posts in this thread sound frustrated and upset. It really doesn't come across as if Pete is not giving a shit. Maybe it's a total communication breakdown.

[bsfeechannel]

People, please, leave Dave alone. His yapping has a hypnotic effect.

I suffer from insomnia. So I watch one of his videos and then I fall asleep in 5 to 10 minutes. It's infallible. No need for sleeping pills.
The next day in the morning I resume watching the video again. And while I sleep I dream of microcontrollers, electrolytic capacitors, oscilloscopes, multimeters, etc.

Please, don't spoil my hypnotherapy!

[bitseeker]

How to give feedback:

1. Write your feedback in a concise, but informative, manner and include specific examples whenever possible.
2. Submit the feedback once. Don't expect a personal reply.
3. Go on with your life.

 

I admire Dave's patience.

[jancumps]

And that's why some people like Pete seems to get so upset about this, they think it's an obvious improvement when the reality is more complex than that.

For the record Dave, Pete didn’t get “so upset about this”, In fact Pete couldn’t give less of a shit if he tried. What Pete in fact did was to offer some respectful feedback of his own experience and personal opinion in the hope of helping the the receiver. Meanwhile I would ask you to provide a quote where Pete has said, implied or otherwise asserted in any way that that he claimed the “improvement “ was obvious.

If you want to turn this in to some sort of federal case and argument, please leave my name out if it Dave, I have no interest in this sort of BS. I like your channel and value you experience, but have no interest in becoming involved in this type of discussion.

Didn’t this post change tone after the “you don’t listen to the customer” part? For me, that’s when you started acting as if you are the customer of the video.

[Brumby]

There were a couple of us talking to Dave at the meetup last night and he made it clear that he DID take notice of comments and other feedback and that he does try to improve.

It would seem somewhat obvious that he will not be able to accommodate EVERY single suggestion for any number of reasons.  There are going to be some that directly conflict.  There are going to be some that involve extensive preparation which he will not always have time for.  There are going to be some that simply do not fit with his personality - such as running to a script - and if he tried, we wouldn't see the same Dave ... and his head might explode with the strain.  There could be some that are just plain silly.  Then there are those which are offered by people who have no appreciation of the real challenges of the art - the armchair experts with all the ideas and none of the practical experience.

Take video editing for example.  I've only done two videos that required an amount of editing, but in that very limited experience, I learned a lot about the considerations necessary for even a half-decent result and the effort required to achieve that.  It can take a lot of time - and it became clear that this would be so even for somebody with the experience, equipment and software.

With everything thrown at Dave (including threats) he has, out of necessity, developed a thick skin.  He mentioned last night that there were some big YouTubers that had to walk away because they couldn't handle the comments flung around.  You might expect that this would result in a content producer happily ignoring comments and criticism - and I'm sure there are some that do - but Dave not only reads them, but often responds.

The fact that Dave has engaged as much as he has here shows he is truly interested in showing an interest in his viewers and developing an understanding of why some things are done the way they are and why other things aren't done.

The bottom line is that Dave cannot take on every suggestion.  That is simply impossible and if it means that some people get their nose out of joint - that's not Dave's problem, it's theirs.  When Dave offers reasons why a certain suggestion is impractical, he is speaking from experience - so please don't feel affronted if he "shoots your idea down".  It's not a personal attack.

This post is, I feel, a perfect summary of how to deal with the topic:

How to give feedback:

1. Write your feedback in a concise, but informative, manner and include specific examples whenever possible.
2. Submit the feedback once. Don't expect a personal reply.
3. Go on with your life.

I admire Dave's patience.

As do many of us.

[Pete F]

And that's why some people like Pete seems to get so upset about this, they think it's an obvious improvement when the reality is more complex than that.

For the record Dave, Pete didn’t get “so upset about this”, In fact Pete couldn’t give less of a shit if he tried. What Pete in fact did was to offer some respectful feedback of his own experience and personal opinion in the hope of helping the the receiver. Meanwhile I would ask you to provide a quote where Pete has said, implied or otherwise asserted in any way that that he claimed the “improvement “ was obvious.

If you want to turn this in to some sort of federal case and argument, please leave my name out if it Dave, I have no interest in this sort of BS. I like your channel and value you experience, but have no interest in becoming involved in this type of discussion.

Didn’t this post change tone after the “you don’t listen to the customer” part? For me, that’s when you started acting as if you are the customer of the video.

Please quote where I said that.

[jancumps]

in this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-video-length/msg1795412/#msg1795412

[Pete F]

in this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-video-length/msg1795412/#msg1795412

That is not correct. I appreciate English may not be a first language for you, however for the record, nowhere in that post did I ever say Dave did not listen to customers. What I in fact said was, “those who don’t listen to their customers...”. It was not referring to Dave, obviously, as he is quite active in this forum and engages with his audience, and was in reference to the discussion at that time about following the YouTube algorithm.

[EEVblog]

And that's why some people like Pete seems to get so upset about this, they think it's an obvious improvement when the reality is more complex than that.

For the record Dave, Pete didn’t get “so upset about this”, In fact Pete couldn’t give less of a shit if he tried. What Pete in fact did was to offer some respectful feedback of his own experience and personal opinion in the hope of helping the the receiver. Meanwhile I would ask you to provide a quote where Pete has said, implied or otherwise asserted in any way that that he claimed the “improvement “ was obvious.

As we say here in Australia, it's "The Vibe".

[Hugoneus]

I know I missed a ton of conversation here. But a few other points:

I have watched nearly every single video Dave has made, fully. Often I watch YouTube videos on 2x speed just because my time is limited. What I care about is information density, essentially the entropy of the content. I like Dave’s videos.

Rossman for example, I just cannot watch, his style and comments don’t suit my taste. But I am sure he does a lot of good work.

The highly polished short videos can be fun, but the devil is in the details, which you miss a lot of times in those videos.

The content I just can’t watch are the 30 minute videos which can easily be made into 5 minutes.


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[Hugoneus]

Hi Shariar,
IMHO you are doing a better video job than Dave, because:
- no gossip. No fast forward needed.

What does "gossip" even mean?

FWIW I'm mainly interested in teardowns and reviews of high end RF test gear and I appreciate the time taken (by both Shahriar and Dave) to make these videos. However, I slightly prefer Dave's teardowns because his closeup camerawork is better and he gets closer to component level analysis with the commentary and the camerawork. Often, he takes time to read out the part numbers on the components and even uploads the datasheet and also provides links to high res still images that can be studied in detail. It must take a lot of effort to do this and I really appreciate it because I can then study the design in more detail at my own pace. I rarely watch any of these teardowns in a linear fashion and I'm often guilty of initially skimming them to the best bits where the gear is actually being taken apart with plenty of closeup RF camerawork. Ideally, I want to see inside the gear as if I was taking it apart myself and Dave's teardowns and still images get me the closest.

One obvious difference is that Shahriars videos tend to be teardown/repair videos and the focus is often on the symptoms and the fault diagnosis and subsequent faultfinding and repair and test. But Dave's teardowns are purely about what is in the box and what looks good/bad from a design point of view. So I think this is why I slightly prefer Dave's teardowns because they suit my needs better. But that is just my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree with me  

I guess what I'm saying above is that I think it would be harder for me to edit/shorten Dave's teardowns because there is generally more interesting stuff going on that is relevant to me.

When the video is a dedicated teardown video, I go over the full design with block diagrams. When it is a repair video, then I focus on the trouble finding and repair.


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