EEVBlog Video Length

[xrunner]

Explaining how toaster ovens work = short videos

Explaining 4 channel digital oscilloscopes = long videos

OK you can close the thread now. 

[Bud]

Those proponents of shorter videos should first learn how to write short posts it seems.

[ttelectronic]

One thing it took me a while to realize, I'm not sure how long it took me. That joeqsmith functional tests the meter at every single step of the way to verify nothing broke on the tests. I was quite impressed with the dedication of time it takes to do that in itself. 

[Mr. Scram]

Those proponents of shorter videos should first learn how to write short posts it seems.

Not that easy, eh!

[TheDefpom]

My opinion as a video creator myself: let Dave do whatever the hell he wants, its his intellect, his content choices.

You can suggest what YOU would like to happen, but as Dave has already said, you cannot please everyone, my channel is 100th the size of Dave's, but I have already seen the effects of what this thread is all about, people have different tastes, you cannot cater to everyone, and there is no point in trying, it just sucks the life out of the thing you are trying to do, it really isn't worth it.

Listening to opinons, yep sure, often it can be helpful, but when it comes to changing video formats, sorry, that is the sole choice of the creator, we make what we want to make, and we always do our best to capture what we are trying to say, in the way we feel is most appropriate.

I don't watch all of Dave's videos, only the ones that I think will interest me, and ones where I learn something (so most of them really).

Dave does a great job of filling the blanks and spelling out things which some people may think are obvious (aka waffling), but actually may not be obvious unless you have already been told about it by say, I don't know, some electronic moving pictures medium.

[Pete F]

Shit anybody reading this thread with a thought to produce technical YT content could be well and truly discouraged from doing so and we'd all be the poorer for it. 

I say get a life and let the creators get on with doing their best for one and all.
What guides them to make changes in their delivery are the YT stats, subs, views etc not the howls of "this doesn't suit me !"

Thank you for the life lesson, my post was hardly a "howl of it doesn't suit me!". I provided feedback and an opinion in a very respectful manner; that's how this format works. Are you seriously suggesting that people should not provide feedback to Youtube creators? Mate, this is SOCIAL media, the intent of it is to be two way process  Dave specifically finishes many of his videos by ASKING people to leave comments. This forum is here to leave comments about the EEVBlog.

There are untold other platforms around where people have the ability to post videos and there is no interaction with those viewing. Youtube is not one of them. I have no idea how many times somebody has suggested cutting videos harder, so don't see why someone should get all beat out of shape when it's suggested.

The formula is pretty simple, don't like the video length, don't watch it. Don't like somebody's post length, don't read it! However if somebody specifically invites comments and feedback, some of that feedback isn't going to be blowing sunshine up one's clacker!

[Brumby]

Sometimes (often?) there is simply no way to make educational technical content more concise. And very often this can't be done at just the editing stage, you would have to go back and re-write scripts and re-shoot the material to make it more concise.

Bingo!

No matter how you present a subject - some people will say it is too long; some will say it is too short; some will say it rabbited on about things "everybody" already knows and others will say it missed out on some important details.  It's never about pleasing everybody, but trying to find your place somewhere that is useful - even if not the optimum.

I don't enjoy every video Dave puts out - but I don't expect that I will.  I especially don't expect him to do anything different on my account.  He has a style that I don't mind and I have seen it evolve over time.  His confidence and comfort in front of the camera have increased, allowing a more flowing conversation - especially for those presenters that have one very important asset: Knowing their subject.

I'm sure Dave will take note of many of the opinions offered - and then produce content in a manner that feels right to him - and I wouldn't want it any other way.  I have no desire to see him wrapped up in a straight jacket designed by internet committee (talk about a double whammy) and then struggle to say something useful.

Thankfully, from what I've seen, Dave isn't going to wear that  and while he may take an interest in some points, I do not expect him to take on wholesale changes for what amounts to "opinions under a bell curve".

Dave - just keep doing what you're doing and you're fine in my book.   

[Brumby]

... my post was hardly a "howl of it doesn't suit me!". I provided feedback and an opinion in a very respectful manner; that's how this format works. Are you seriously suggesting that people should not provide feedback to Youtube creators? Mate, this is SOCIAL media, the intent of it is to be two way process 

That's the thing about Social Media ... the difference between a "howl of it doesn't suit me!" and "feedback" is very often hidden in the tone of voice - and you can't do that very well via a text medium.  For some people, the ability to express this accurately via the written word is difficult - and the reader may interpret things differently from their different cultural background.

I would suggest you take a page out of your own book and chill a bit.  You seem to be taking any opportunity to interpret responses to your posts as being attacks - when, from what I have read, the discussion hasn't headed down that avenue except from reactions.

It's social media.  If you make a comment, expect a response - and harden up a little.

[tautech]

Shit anybody reading this thread with a thought to produce technical YT content could be well and truly discouraged from doing so and we'd all be the poorer for it. 

I say get a life and let the creators get on with doing their best for one and all.
What guides them to make changes in their delivery are the YT stats, subs, views etc not the howls of "this doesn't suit me !"

Thank you for the life lesson, my post was hardly a "howl of it doesn't suit me!". I provided feedback and an opinion in a very respectful manner; that's how this format works. Are you seriously suggesting that people should not provide feedback to Youtube creators? Mate, this is SOCIAL media, the intent of it is to be two way process  Dave specifically finishes many of his videos by ASKING people to leave comments. This forum is here to leave comments about the EEVBlog.

There are untold other platforms around where people have the ability to post videos and there is no interaction with those viewing. Youtube is not one of them. I have no idea how many times somebody has suggested cutting videos harder, so don't see why someone should get all beat out of shape when it's suggested.

The formula is pretty simple, don't like the video length, don't watch it. Don't like somebody's post length, don't read it! However if somebody specifically invites comments and feedback, some of that feedback isn't going to be blowing sunshine up one's clacker!

Haha Pete, my comment was NOT directed specifically at you, if it was Id have quoted you just as I have now.

Well then I challenge you to go get creative and try and conjure up some technical online content of your own, something that isn't seen as biased and also cater for a wide demographic and diverse cultural audience, it just ain't easy.
Over my good few years on this forum and thousands of posts and the lessons learnt of how to be informative and factual has taken some good time to develop just as Dave's style has changed in the 1100+ videos he's done.

He's listened and heard it all before and from earlier posts you've made about your age indicates you should already know how to vote...........with your feet.

[Pete F]

Thank you, you guys are evidently right and I apparently "need to chill". I'd thought some respectful feedback about the channel might be taken onboard and considered. I didn't think I'd get much support, if any, but clearly it wasn't well received and I should have predicted that. I will certainly not be offering any feedback in future and have definitely learnt my lesson there. 

For what it's worth over lunch I did finally get to watch the #506 IR/Arduino video. I'll have to go through the sketch when I get a chance. Obviously I can't comment on the video lest it be construed as feedback.

Please accept my apologies for wasting 4 pages worth of people's electrons.

[Brumby]

I will certainly not be offering any feedback in future and have definitely learnt my lesson there. 

....

Please accept my apologies for wasting 4 pages worth of people's electrons.

Good grief.  I said harden up - not spit the dummy.

[mickmake]

The YouTube algorithm is a complex thing, but we know that it does favour those videos that have an audience retention rate of more than 50% for more than 90% of the video. There’s some magic thing that kicks in once you hit that mark.
So I’m gathering Dave has adjusted for that metric.

Nope, I don't try and follow the ever changing algorithm, I just make the content I want to make and it either gets views or it doesn't.
BTW, do you have a reference for that? I have not heard of something "kicking in" at that limit.
Also, a longer retention rate is antithetical to the new longer watch time metric the algorithm is favoring, you can't really have both.

This is what's been quoted to me by several people from YouTube, whether it's just a case of Chinese whispers or not... dunno, but I have seen more ads being run on my videos as a result.

I guess there's different metrics for different goals and as you've said several times, ad revenue isn't one of them for you.

Also, a longer retention rate is antithetical to the new longer watch time metric the algorithm is favoring, you can't really have both.

Well, a better retention rate would lead to longer watch time, but there's other factors that are just as important if you want visibility - thumbnail images, metadata and follow-on watch-time.
Metadata is actually pretty important, and I've been pretty lazy with my videos. I've changed tags and titles on a couple and seen a huge improvement.
Follow-on watch-time is all about how much more someone stays on YouTube after watching your videos. IE: If they abandon YouTube after yours, then it is lowered.

Having said all this: I doubt very much whether YouTube themselves actually know what's going on 100%. They have a massive amount of data to process.

[mickmake]

I’m doing similar things Dave, clipping out pauses, repetition, etc. I now do an edit all the way through to the end, then do it again, the second edit will usually only trim off another 3-5%, with the first edit taking off up to 25% sometimes, but because people don’t see what it was, they do not know how much better it already is.

I would rather spend my time finding broken equipment and recording content, than editing the crap out of a video to save 2 minutes.

I first run through the video as a rough cut and at that point I don't even look at the video - it's all audio. I make sure the audio is continuous and understandable.

Then I go back and add Broll. So much quicker than the way I was doing it before.

Then I render and run through a final QA - cause my machine is slow and can't play in real-time.
Sometimes I'll have to go back and re-edit, but not often.

[timgiles]

Hmmm, millennial snowflake alert!?

[EEVblog]

Thank you for the life lesson, my post was hardly a "howl of it doesn't suit me!". I provided feedback and an opinion in a very respectful manner; that's how this format works. Are you seriously suggesting that people should not provide feedback to Youtube creators? Mate, this is SOCIAL media, the intent of it is to be two way process  Dave specifically finishes many of his videos by ASKING people to leave comments. This forum is here to leave comments about the EEVBlog.

There are untold other platforms around where people have the ability to post videos and there is no interaction with those viewing. Youtube is not one of them. I have no idea how many times somebody has suggested cutting videos harder, so don't see why someone should get all beat out of shape when it's suggested.

A assume you are talking about me "getting bent out of shape", in which case I have explained myself over and over. You provided feedback, I've thanked you for that feedback and tried to in-depth explain to not only yourself but everyone in general, the issues surrounding that suggestion because it comes up a lot. It's done.

[EEVblog]

Thankfully, from what I've seen, Dave isn't going to wear that  and while he may take an interest in some points, I do not expect him to take on wholesale changes for what amounts to "opinions under a bell curve".

And that's the issue here. I have built my entire channel over 9 years and over 1100 videos based on a long form off-the-cuff approach.
Changing to rigid 10-15 minutes regardless of the content would be a "wholesale change" that many people will not like.
Sure I might pick up some new audience because of that change, but I will also definitely loose others.
And I do make videos of the suggested length, just not that many.
That is why it's best to do what I've always done, and continue to be conscious of the length of my videos and do my best, but ultimately not sacrifice the content to match some arbitrary deadline. Channels like Great Scott and Afrotechmods very deliberately cripple their content in a technical educational sense in order to meet the "Youtube formula", and that's fine, and they have large fanbases because of that. But if every electronics channel did that we'd have no in-depth long form content, everyone would be chasing the algorithm and a more mainsteam audience.
Go on The Signal Path channel and try to suggest 10 minute videos and you'll beat over the head with a CRO probe.

I get Pete's point about perhaps making many more shorter videos, but I've explained why that's maybe not the best option either.

[EEVblog]

I first run through the video as a rough cut and at that point I don't even look at the video - it's all audio. I make sure the audio is continuous and understandable.

Yes, I edit based on the audio. I almost don't even have to look at the video because I remember what I shot and I've quite careful about framing and the like so it's always right out of the camera.
In fact for most videos I wouldn't even need to listen to the audio, I could simply join clips together, take out the dead space, and be 95% confident the final video is a wrap.

Then I render and run through a final QA - cause my machine is slow and can't play in real-time.

I never watch my video after the render, I just edit in sequence and rely on my ability not to goof up that process.
Someone will tell me within 30 minutes of uploading if I've monumentally goofed something. Probably only a few percent of the time I'll have to pull a video and re-edit a goof.

[EEVblog]

Thank you, you guys are evidently right and I apparently "need to chill". I'd thought some respectful feedback about the channel might be taken onboard and considered.

It was considered, very carefully and thoughtfully with detailed explanations and personal attention from a busy Youtuber with over half a million subscribers. What more did you want?

[Fungus]

Reminds me of this:

[joeqsmith]

I will certainly not be offering any feedback in future and have definitely learnt my lesson there. 

Someone provides you with a little helpful feedback in return and this is how you choose to react?  I will say from my own limited experience, I am not surprised. 

Are you going to ask how to delete your account too?

[joeqsmith]

Explaining how toaster ovens work = short videos

I could do a year long course on how a toaster oven works and still not scratch the surface.   Not to mention the amount of research I would need to do on the subject.  We would need to start with the basics of electricity and work up from there.   

[IanJ]

I like the long video's...…..but usually I'll skip through them at first screening and then later let it go for the whole thing when I am ready to give it my full attention.
I don't much like segmented video's, the same way I don't follow many Tv 'series'.......I like a movie where there is a beginning, middle and end all in the one sitting. Exceptions to this are follow-up videos.

Dave's video's are technical in nature so my gut feeling is they don't completely fit the YT 'ideal length'. The revenue generated may show something else though.

Dave's waffling?...….keep it coming Dave, it's more like having you in the same room than watching a show on Tv.

My own video's, I try to keep them under 45mins.......and if they are longer I can usually trim some stuff out.

Ian.

[EEVblog]

I like the long video's...…..but usually I'll skip through them at first screening and then later let it go for the whole thing when I am ready to give it my full attention.
I don't much like segmented video's, the same way I don't follow many Tv 'series'.......I like a movie where there is a beginning, middle and end all in the one sitting. Exceptions to this are follow-up videos.

I also don't like series, as there is a continuous "commitment" in order to get it all. When I sit down to watch something of an evening I want full closure within the two hours, so movie it is.

[joeqsmith]

One thing it took me a while to realize, I'm not sure how long it took me. That joeqsmith functional tests the meter at every single step of the way to verify nothing broke on the tests. I was quite impressed with the dedication of time it takes to do that in itself. 

Yes, that's pretty much what is going on.  It takes me a few days to run a decent meter now.  Life cycling the switches requires several days by itself.    Then it gets boiled down to about an hour.    Then someone will post how the videos are too long while others are asking to see even more tests added.      

In the end,  I run them out of my own interest, using the metrics I want to see and then offer the results to the few people who are interested in the data I collect.  I don't ask for any handouts,  there are no ads and I make nothing off the channel. 

[b_force]

I don't mind long videos as long as there is good information in it.
What I only see very often (including Dave's videos) is that things repeated many times or a lot of time is spend on things that aren't important to the video.
That just makes the video unnecessarily long and I personally find that frustrating to hear somebody saying what he already did 3-4 times before.
Even harder to keep focused if the story goes all over the place.

Practically I do think more than 20-25 minutes is stretching it for a YouTube video, unless it's a good documentary/classroom style video.

Yeah, sure you can say let people do the things as they want.
But I don't understand what's wrong about improving yourself?
Guess some people just still like living in caves.