EEVblog #865 - How To Increase Alkaline Battery Capacity

[Fungus]

Dave, can you try charging the alkaline battery? Can it at least partially restore its charge? Or charging them is unpractical waste of time and energy.

My children doesn't differ alkaline AA batteries from rechargeable AA cells, and often puts dead alkaline batteries into universal NiCd-NiMeH charger, and it brings some charge into it, at least for small currents.

But then the batteries will leak after a while. 
Happened more than once to me after I thought I could use the batteries longer in a remote control by charging them for a couple of minutes.
Makes a horrible mess and I stopped charging alkalines when I realized they leak because of the charging.

Greetings

A normal charger will apply far too much current.

I wonder if a special slow charger could be made for alkalines. It might be worth it even if you could only recharge them to 50% a couple of times, that's still double the battery life.

[Ivan7enych]

I had no battery leaked after accidental charging, may be it depends on charger type.

I remember some advice from very old russian electronics journal (1980th), nonrechrgeable could be charged with alternative current, for example 20ms charging, then 10ms discharging with the same current, or time intervals can be equal but charge current should be higher than discharge current.

Anyway, I don't advice anyone to repeat my crazy ideas, I see Dave is checking some (how to tell that?) unusual experiments, and simply ask him to check another unusual thing. 

[elliottveares]

Not Again!

Dave, Best not to include the phrase "april fools" in your video tags if you want to fool us.

[n3vti]

A normal charger will apply far too much current.

I wonder if a special slow charger could be made for alkalines. It might be worth it even if you could only recharge them to 50% a couple of times, that's still double the battery life.

As I recall, there was one made before. Rayovac made a special charger for such batteries. It only sold for a couple of years (around 2000) before it disappeared. I called BS on it back then.   

[MK14]

A normal charger will apply far too much current.

I wonder if a special slow charger could be made for alkalines. It might be worth it even if you could only recharge them to 50% a couple of times, that's still double the battery life.

As I recall, there was one made before. Rayovac made a special charger for such batteries. It only sold for a couple of years (around 2000) before it disappeared. I called BS on it back then.   

There was a time (possibly the date you mention), when SPECIAL alkaline rechargeable batteries were released. They had the advantage of being the full 1.5V (rather than 1.2V), but could only be recharged, a claimed 10..20 times. They also kept their charge for a long time, such as 5 years, which back then was very good. As Nicads etc would loose charge fairly quickly, even if NOT being used.

I think Rayovac was one of the main names, who did them. (But I also vaguely remember chargers for charging non-rechargeable alkalines, but they were reputed to be mostly a waste of time and/or con).

EDIT: (wrong picture).
EDIT2: Correct picture put in now.
Here we go...



http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rayovac-Alkali-Rechargeable-battery-1-5volts/dp/B0026WHNRI

[Fungus]

Not Again!

Dave, Best not to include the phrase "april fools" in your video tags if you want to fool us.

Was it posted on April Fools day? I though it was only until midday, after that the 'fool' is the person playing the trick.

Maybe it's different in Australia.

PS: I've heard of bashing batteries to get more life so this video didn't seem too unbelievable. 

[ElektronikLabor]

I don't know if it's an april fool or not, but since I was a kid I sometimes squeez old batteries to get some extra capacity out of it.
It was a matter of common knowledge in the former Soviet Union to squeze batteries to refresh them.

I often asked my self if it's just an illusion or if that really have any effect.

[Muttley Snickers]

It would appear that these primary cell charger/ re-generators are still around and the sales spin sounds all too familiar, might have to ship one up to Dave as they are a local product and if it's all bullshit then it can go back in bits.

Radio Parts
http://www.radioparts.com.au/product/03611050/lcd883-rezap-universal-battery-doctor-5-in-1-multi-chemistry-charger#.Vv6EBZx94dU

Rezap
http://www.rezap.com.au/product.htm

[MK14]

It would appear that these primary cell charger/ re-generators are still around and the sales spin sounds all too familiar, might have to ship one up to Dave as they are a local product and if it's all bullshit then it can go back in bits.

Radio Parts
http://www.radioparts.com.au/product/03611050/lcd883-rezap-universal-battery-doctor-5-in-1-multi-chemistry-charger#.Vv6EBZx94dU

Rezap
http://www.rezap.com.au/product.htm

It's got only one (on their own websites) review, which is saying that the batteries corroded (ie. it LEAKS) things badly, if left for a long while.
tl;dr
As I said before, it makes the batteries leak, which is no good.

But you can raise a counter point. Which is that batteries can leak anyway. In my experience trying to recharge "non-rechargeable" batteries, gives very little or no success, and seems to significantly increase the frequency and extent, of battery leakage. In some cases, even leaking while charging.

http://www.radioparts.com.au/product/03611050/lcd883-rezap-universal-battery-doctor-5-in-1-multi-chemistry-charger#tabs-4

I have always been impressed with the innovation & money saving value of this product. I first bought this item from a TV marketing site. I used it for five years before its terminals inside the machine became corroded from batteries left in too long (eg: storing the flat batteries in the machine between switching it on to charge). Batteries with some life left recharged the best. Those batteries that were completely flat were difficult to recharge - such as batteries used for x-box games. The older the batteries were the less likely that they would make it beyond half power. It saved me a great deal of money and battery wastage. I recommend it-just watch for corrosion on the batteries being charged.

[Dave]

Hehe, you just injected some current into the system, didn't you? That would explain the change of shape in the discharge curve, as the voltage on the battery would suddenly start dropping more slowly if the current was coming from another source.

[MK14]

I mentioned that the batteries might/can explode, earlier. Example:

I used this charger twice. The second time I used it, a "C" battery exploded and I counldn't get all of the corrosive material out. It never worked after that and even if it did, I would not use it again. Would not recommend this product.

Source:

http://www.amazon.com/ReZap-7301-batteries-Discontinued-Manufacturer/product-reviews/B003KGB6Z4/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_hist_1?filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1

[Tek_TDS220]

I'm not an expert in battery chemistry, but this may have to do with ion diffusion.  When you deplete the battery so fast, the ions don't have time to diffuse to the electrodes.  Squeezing the batteries causes convection (liquid mixing) that stirs the liquid, quickly moving the ions around and replenishing the battery.  You might do better by alternately squeezing and releasing the battery several times.

Note that you haven't increased the ultimate capacity.  You've only increased the energy output in the short term.  If you ran this test once a day (giving diffusion time to mix) I'll bet you find that the total energy output of both batteries is the same.

[alanb]

New Batteriser!

[Muttley Snickers]

I mentioned that the batteries might/can explode, earlier.

I don't think that anyone questioned your statement, I certainly didn't and merely pointed out that there are still devices around that promote charging primary cells, also there are many more reviews around on that particular product that aren't very favourable.

The difference between this product and say the Batteriser is that this is an actual product which is manufactured and sold by what appears to be a legitimate company and various distributors, if it doesn't work as described or is not safe then the consumer has rights in regards to a refund, in our country anyway.     

[MK14]

I don't think that anyone questioned your statement, I certainly didn't and merely pointed out that there are still devices around that promote charging primary cells, also there are many more reviews around on that particular product that aren't very favourable.

The difference between this product and say the Batteriser is that this is an actual product which is manufactured and sold by what appears to be a legitimate company and various distributors, if it doesn't work as described or is not safe then the consumer has rights in regards to a refund, in our country anyway.   

Good post, I Agree!

I use to have at least one of those "charge normal batteries" chargers, myself. (From memory...) It basically gave almost no improvement, to run down conventional batteries.
E.g. You use your torch/flashlight with brand new (conventional or alkaline, non-rechargeable) batteries, and it runs down (goes very dim), after exactly 5 hours. You immediately set it charging for 6.5 hours. Then immediately try it again in the torch/flashlight. It lights up (not as brightly as normal), for a few minutes, then goes back to being dim.

Worse still, on removing the batteries, you can find they are dripping wet, with horrible battery fluid (acid/alkaline/chemicals etc).

I think this has similarities to the $1,000 HDMI cables, or $500 oxygen free speaker leads etc etc.

Apparently a lot of stuff coming in from China, does NOT appear to meet western modern safety levels. I'm mystified as to how the west is allowing this situation to exist and continue. The items appear to blatantly NOT meet western laws on safety etc.

Example: (The following shortish video, looks VERY unsafe!).

[nidlaX]

Im always spetical of everything near the 1st of  April.
You where talking about the other 2 cables on the video?

Four cables going from the battery holder to the electronic load: two for the load input at the front terminals, two for the load sense at one of the rear terminal blocks (essentially the load's internal DVM). Read up on how four wire sensing for resistance measurement works. You're right to be suspicious though...

[djQUAN]

If the video has some truth in it (not april fools) then instead of squeezing the cell, how about putting it in a centrifuge of some sort to compress the electrolyte mix?

[n3vti]

Example: (The following shortish video, looks VERY unsafe!).

 

That thing is totally safe! 
(You'll have a very shocking experience.)

But seriously, you have a good point on stuff from China. I've seen a few videos on these and I've even opened a few up. They're thinking cheap cost to make, questionable design, cutting corners, etc. I bet all of us could design something better.

[ericloewe]

So... Fake four-wire measurement or the little switcheroo with A "sitting here for a while" when, in fact, it had just been discharged and B had been sitting there?

[mxmarek]

The physics behind this is simple. When you squeeze the alkaline battery you put mechanical energy into it. Squeezed atoms are forced to be getting nearer to each other. As you squeeze, also the electrons start to spin faster due to decreased radius of their orbits. This requires a lots of mechanical energy, BUT: Now this extra mechanical energy you just put into the electrolyte, can be extracted as electrical energy!(tm)

By this phenomenon new possibilities arise. It is now possible to make high pressure packed batteries. This can be grown into new groundbreaking technology, which can reduce battery size by orders of magnitude for the same capacity, or make the same sized batteries with orders of magnitude more energy!(tm)

Unfortunately there is some drawback. If you increase matter density too much, by squeezing in too much power, you can go beyond the critical mass and the battery can implode ruining all the effort (energy) put into squeezing it.
God thing is, this energy thou adds to the energy of the void, which with current technology we cannot effectively harvest. Maybe in the future it will be possible to recover it. It could then lead to REAL wireless energy transfer of which Tesla and many other people dreamed.

One very good thing about squeezing is The Safety(tm). Properly squeezed batteries cannot make any harm when physically damaged. When battery is damaged and the electrolyte pressure drops rapidly, the temperature will also rapidly decrease. These are known thermodynamics laws. With so much decompression the electrolyte will freeze almost immediately preventing any splashes. The outer foil of the battery can then easily hold frozen electrolyte later, when it heats to ambient temperature, so it will not spill.

This safety feature can have another off-prescription usage: as a drink cooler. You get depleted battery, which still have the very high pressurized electrolyte inside, smash it with something to make is decompress and freeze to nearly zero K temperature, and just drop it inside a glass of a drink, for example beer. With that much difference in temperature, freezing is much faster than using standard, old fashioned water ice cubes.

I think many brilliant uses for this technology is possible.

Cheers!

[HKJ]

So... Fake four-wire measurement or the little switcheroo with A "sitting here for a while" when, in fact, it had just been discharged and B had been sitting there?

The display on the load says "sense", i.e. it is in 4 terminal mode, but there is nothing to prevent a power supply at the back adding some current.
And the use of 4 terminal is not really necessary in that setup, most of the resistance is in the battery holder.

[matkar]

I don't know if it's an april fool or not, but since I was a kid I sometimes squeez old batteries to get some extra capacity out of it.
It was a matter of common knowledge in the former Soviet Union to squeze batteries to refresh them.

It was a common knowledge in Yugoslavia as well. I remember whacking the batteries with a hammer to make the Walkman play again.

[MK14]

But seriously, you have a good point on stuff from China. I've seen a few videos on these and I've even opened a few up. They're thinking cheap cost to make, questionable design, cutting corners, etc. I bet all of us could design something better.

I hope that sooner, rather than later, something is done about it. The fakes and safety risks, are not good. E.g. A fake aircraft part makes it into a jet airliner, and causes mayhem ...

................................................................................................

Here is an article, describing (amongst other stuff), why you should NEVER recharge, NON-rechargeable batteries.
tl;dr
They can produce hydrogen gas and EXPLODE.

http://www.wthr.com/story/15008952/13-investigates-exploding-alkaline-batteries

...............................................................

In Dave's video, towards the end, the battery voltage was far too high, for a run down battery (approx 1.25V at about 1800 Sec into test). I.e. I smell a rat. (Tomfoolery/trickery).

[SteveLy]

Sqeezing in a vice helps get more energy out of your camping stove gas canister too.

[ez24]

As I recall, there was one made before. Rayovac made a special charger for such batteries. It only sold for a couple of years (around 2000) before it disappeared. I called BS on it back then.   

I bought 8 of these when they came out.  Six have been thrown away (bad) but I still have 2 in a lantern that I do not use.  Once a year and take them out and the two always have a near full charge.  I discharge them and recharge until the next year.

 If they all lasted list these two they would have become the miracle battery.