EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED

[bitslice]

Who knows, my "swearing" might actually get the attention of more people because it might elicit a different emotional response in them that gets them more fired up about the issue.

Nope, people don't work that way, in England if you swear they instantly regard you as a bit thick, in that if you can't communicate in a controlled manner then you probably can't think logically either. Whatever you say is just dismissed.
Although people then quote Stephen Fry as a counter to this, the reaction is pretty universal.
(and Fry is a hypocritical poser because he never swears on camera himself)

If swearing actually created a positive emotional response then Hitler would have used it.

It's not a matter of Political Correctness, it's a matter of child friendly forums.
It's a default position for moderation - if the post content is not suitable for a child, then it's probably not suitable for an adult either.

Use bit.ly or something.

bit.ly is banned because it could link to a malicious page, and the moderator will still check out the video regardless. I wouldn't click on a bit.ly regardless.



Personally if I want something I'm passionate about to reach a wide audience then I'd consider how to market that idea. If my presentation style gets me banned from every single forum outside of this one, then I'd just be preaching to the choir. That's great for my ego, but a fail by any other criteria.

Maybe that's why some English people use sarcasm, they don't wish to be rude, but they do want to imply that the other person is an idiot.

[cdev]

This is likely a way for the ruling party to channel taxpayer money to their supporters. So the scheme is likely targeting taxpayers, by means of government spending, its a control fraud.

just be glad they are not starting and fighting endless wars, thats the traditional way to make lots of money fast without adult supervision.

"Impressed these fraudsters can still get money for this crap idea.  Is this the new American dream?   Figure out some BS idea that has a hint of reality and milk investors for everything you can with fancy marketing?"

"What happens to these jokers went the house of cards finally falls?  Do they walk on to the next BS idea and repeat?"

Yes, thats exactly what they do.

[SeanB]

Most railways in Europe are electrified, with support towers every few meters to hold the busbar and the power supply cable, along with trackside control cabling. It would be easy to place an extra tower as support, and a tie bar on top attached to the standard one, to hold a lattice frame structure that is positioned well above the electric rail and supply, which you can use to hold solar panels on at an appropriate angle. You already have the power cabling there for the train, so all that is needed is an appropriate inverter to convert the panel output to something the train uses voltage wise. If the train uses AC then you can feed back into the grid with no extra equipment, or if DC then you are using solar power to operate trains instead, or you need to upgrade the power supply for the rails so they can act either as power supplies or as inverters to the grid, depending on the voltage on the rail. Would also allow regenerative braking to return power to the grid instead of being dissipated in voltage regulator modules if the train dumping energy is the only one on the particular segment.

[cdev]

The wind loading of the large solar panels in close proximity to all that high voltage and rapidly moving trains- not good unless I am not seeing something important. Sure, if the structures were already really strong, maybe.. but...

Earthquake prone areas, definitely not a good idea....

Most railways in Europe are electrified, with support towers every few meters to hold the busbar and the power supply cable, along with trackside control cabling. It would be easy to place an extra tower as support, and a tie bar on top attached to the standard one, to hold a lattice frame structure that is positioned well above the electric rail and supply, which you can use to hold solar panels on at an appropriate angle. You already have the power cabling there for the train, so all that is needed is an appropriate inverter to convert the panel output to something the train uses voltage wise. If the train uses AC then you can feed back into the grid with no extra equipment, or if DC then you are using solar power to operate trains instead, or you need to upgrade the power supply for the rails so they can act either as power supplies or as inverters to the grid, depending on the voltage on the rail. Would also allow regenerative braking to return power to the grid instead of being dissipated in voltage regulator modules if the train dumping energy is the only one on the particular segment.

[EEVblog]

uote author=bitslice link=topic=62965.msg870980#msg870980 date=1455650211]
Nope, people don't work that way
[/quote]

And your experience in the field of psychology is?
Got data to prove that using the word "bullshit" in a debunking video has an actual large detrimental effect?

It's not a matter of Political Correctness, it's a matter of child friendly forums.

Wrong, it's a matter of me doing and saying what I want on my channel.

bit.ly is banned because it could link to a malicious page, and the moderator will still check out the video regardless. I wouldn't click on a bit.ly regardless.

Sounds like a shitty forum.

Personally if I want something I'm passionate about to reach a wide audience then I'd consider how to market that idea. If my presentation style gets me banned from every single forum outside of this one, then I'd just be preaching to the choir. That's great for my ego, but a fail by any other criteria.

Exaggerating a tad you think?

[drussell]

"Impressed these fraudsters can still get money for this crap idea.  Is this the new American dream?   Figure out some BS idea that has a hint of reality and milk investors for everything you can with fancy marketing?"

"What happens to these jokers went the house of cards finally falls?  Do they walk on to the next BS idea and repeat?"

Yes, thats exactly what they do.

Precisely!  Over and over and over and over again!  What a sham!

(cough) Batteroo...

[drussell]

Got data to prove that using the word "bullshit" in a debunking video has an actual large detrimental effect?
...
Wrong, it's a matter of me doing and saying what I want on my channel.

While I agree with you, Dave that it is your channel and you can run it how you see fit and you may say whatever you want...
AND I will try to defend your right to say whatever you want no matter what, whenever and wherever I can...
(I firmly believe that is a very important thing for everyone, everywhere, to do...)

It's not a matter of Political Correctness, it's a matter of child friendly forums.

I must also agree with bitslice on this one...

I lament the fact that while, for example, my nephews are showing real, budding, interest in electronics and I would love to introduce them to your channel because it has all sorts of meaningful, insightful and educational content, it is going to unfortunately be many years yet before I can in good conscience point them to your channel due mainly, simply, to your profanity.  When they get older, sure, but for now it's going to have to be things like the Periodic Table of Videos with Professor Poliakoff.  He gets all his points across with exceptionally good diction and masterful exploitation of the english language (as do many others on YouTube) without ever needing to resort to profanity and vulgarity to attempt to make a point.

It's just simply not going to fly with their family (who actually monitors their internet consumption as I believe any good parent should) or myself personally, and for that I am sorry and regretful but there's really nothing I can do to change that situation to help introduce inquiring young minds to that which we've known for so long.  (I really wish I could find all my old 1970-80s  Forrest M. Mims III books from many years ago to give them...)

I realize sensibilities are a tad different "down undah'" where you are but you must also always realize you have a global audience and anything you can do to help the rest of us introduce your stuff to others as widely as possible really benefits us all...

Just my two cents, take it as you may...

[EEVblog]

I must also agree with bitslice on this one...
I lament the fact that while, for example, my nephews are showing real, budding, interest in electronics and I would love to introduce them to your channel because it has all sorts of meaningful, insightful and educational content, it is going to unfortunately be many years yet before I can in good conscience point them to your channel due mainly, simply, to your profanity. 

There are countless other channels out there.
I can't be all things to all people, nor do I try to be, I'm simply, well, me. There are countless kids who watch my channel, and countless parents who let them, so I can't be doing that bad.
Bullshit is pretty much the worst profanity I come out with, and it's not that often.

[lowimpedance]

"Bullshit" ... is nothing compared to what gets used by 'kids' out in public/ school etc these days . Take a ride on public transport and just listen to a group of younger ones talking.
The whole issue over this one 'profane' example smells a bit like .....well like an amorphous bovine desposit.

[bitslice]

And your experience in the field of psychology is?

Swearing is used as a coping mechanism, but the listener experiences stress as a result. Every culture has linguistic taboos and every culture reacts negatively to such transgressions.
 

Got data to prove that using the word "bullshit" in a debunking video has an actual large detrimental effect?

In marketing terms, yes - nobody apart from a handful of forums have linked to the video, compare that to the mass coverage of "Solar Freakin' Roadways". One commented that the presentation was like being waterboarded.
I could have got it linked on a much bigger forum than this but I got banned for trying. I dare say other people have taken one look at the clip picture and gone elsewhere for data.

Empirically, as an English person, swearing is right up there with our class system as a means to separate people who all look the same. I gather Americans derive the same taboos from their more religious culture.
Of course this is hypocritical because we swear all the time, but hypocrisy is the nature of man.

Wrong, it's a matter of me doing and saying what I want on my channel.

I was merely responding to your assertion that not swearing would be pandering to the politically correct crowd, when that's not the reason people are suggesting there are issues with this video.
I've seen SJW's, anti-fascist thugs and politicly correct Neo-feminists on Youtube, and they swear all the time.

Yes it's your channel, but who are you talking to here - we already agree with you.
But when it comes to debating this in a wider world you've unfortunately lumbered the video with baggage that makes it toxic to lay people.

Really this is maybe you helping us to help you?

[drussell]

"Bullshit" ... is nothing compared to what gets used by 'kids' out in public/ school etc these days . Take a ride on public transport and just listen to a group of younger ones talking.

Oh, I agree completely, but that doesn't mean we encourage it..

I'm basically just saying think twice before you speak or put "No Bullshit Packaging" on your multimeter box.

Do I think kids don't know these words?  Of course not!

Do we really need to stoop to elementary-kid-schoolyard or barnyard-language-level to get our point across? 

I most certainly hope not.    I, for one, find that neither liberating or refreshing.

[rrinker]

 PG rated moves have worse language than what Dave comes out with. One F bomb in nearly 900 (or is it more than 900 if you count the second channel?) videos is a pretty darn good ratio of NOT swearing.

 It's all well and good to try to protect kids from exposure to such language, but unless you follow them everywhere and have some sort of automatic filtering headphones on them at all times, it's just not possible. If the child in question is 6 or older, guarantee he's heard "bullshit" many many times. I'll never forget, my first day of kindergarten, I wasn't even 5 yet, sitting at the dinner table with my Mom and Dad, and I had a question I just had to ask my Dad. I had heard the older kids on the school bus use a word that I didn't know. So my innocent little self blurts out "Dad, what does 'fuck' mean?" My Mom tried to look shocked while not laughing, my Dad was doing a poor job of trying to remain serious and not laugh out loud. Once you have kids, you realize just how hard this is, when your kid does something you don't really want to encourage yet it's insanely hilarious to an adult.

 Really, 'bullshit' is about a mild as it gets. Perhaps "male bovine excrement" is politically correct, but it's not nearly as good a descriptor for stupid ideas.

[rich]

Empirically, as an English person, swearing is right up there with our class system as a means to separate people who all look the same.

So you won't be invoking the class system by calling anyone plebs then?

Whenever the topic comes up on other forums the gushing plebs post the same solar roadways promotional

How is the view from your ivory tower now?

Language is all about context. The context of Dave's channel is pretty clear edutainment hosted by that crazy aussie bloke, "bullshit" is part of that vocabulary. If you go posting it to other channels, then that's your editorial decision not Dave's. If your mission is to affect that audience and you don't think Dave's material is suitable, then go create your own. It doesn't look like Dave is losing sleep over not reaching them.

On a uk offensiveness scale, I doubt the BBC would use "bullshit" pre-watershed whereas they do occasionally use the word "crap" on BBC Radio 4 during the day and get away with it. So, yes, bullshit raises the stakes from "crap" and a tamer version would be "bull" but as I said before, I think it works fine with Dave's on-screen persona.

[nctnico]

In my experience some people get really upset when you swear so I try to feel the water before using too strong wording. In many cases swearing doesn't help to get a point across either. IMHO many people unfamiliar with EEVblog and Dave's style will see the video as an amusing rant from some Aussie bloke instead of a serious attempt to explain the shortcomings of the solar road idea. But maybe it isn't more than a rant because there are several assumptions made in the video as well. For example the life expectancy being low and maintenance costs being excessive; without (f)actual numbers it is just the word from one against the other All opinion remember.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

I'm with Dave on this, don't pander to how people say you should be, just be yourself.

Swearing is not really bad, but being mean and horrible to people and things is bad.
Some people get the two mixed up.

not that Dave is anything like Tony just trying to make a point that being yourself is the best way to go.
I remember Tony Abott was so over coached and over prepared when he confronted media he often looked like a complete dill.
He was concentrating on the script and not on what was really happening and so did weird things like: eating a raw brown onion with the skin; and becoming mute on camera for about 30 seconds while attempting to answer a question. 
Actually come to think of it, he did weird things off script too, like knighting the Queens husband.

[EEVblog]

PG rated moves have worse language than what Dave comes out with. One F bomb in nearly 900 (or is it more than 900 if you count the second channel?) videos is a pretty darn good ratio of NOT swearing.

Exactly.
The Martian for example, contains one or two F bombs, a word I have never used on my channel. The book has more.
That movie and book is something I would want every kid on the planet to watch and read, and it's worse than my videos.

[bitslice]

So you won't be invoking the class system by calling anyone plebs then?

I like the word "plebs" 
the view is splendid old bean

If you go posting it to other channels, then that's your editorial decision not Dave's

Yes of course, I'm just pointing out a moderation issue on other forums that he may not have been aware of.
If he's happy with just us lot then that's fine too.

 

[EEVblog]

And your experience in the field of psychology is?

Swearing is used as a coping mechanism, but the listener experiences stress as a result. Every culture has linguistic taboos and every culture reacts negatively to such transgressions.

So, zero experience, got it.

Got data to prove that using the word "bullshit" in a debunking video has an actual large detrimental effect?

In marketing terms, yes - nobody apart from a handful of forums have linked to the video, compare that to the mass coverage of "Solar Freakin' Roadways". One commented that the presentation was like being waterboarded.
I could have got it linked on a much bigger forum than this but I got banned for trying. I dare say other people have taken one look at the clip picture and gone elsewhere for data.
[/quote]

And guess who's Solar Freaking roadways debunking videos got plastered everywhere, Thunderf00t's and mine. I'm pretty sure Thunderf00t averages more BS's per debunking video than me.
My original video "EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!" has 412k views. Thunderf00t's has about the same. Note that mine has BULLSHIT in the title, Tunderf00t's has the more PC "Solar Roadways: Busted!"
So much for your hypothesis.
Getting it linked on a forum or not amounts to a hill of beans in terms of views.

Yes it's your channel

And precisely where any argument ends.
Look, if I feel pressured into "toning down" my content or doing or saying anything other than want I naturally want to do and say, then that's it, I'd rather give it all up. Seriously.
When I hear arguments like this about my content, it actually has the opposite effect on me, if anything it discourages me from wanting to continue to produce content.
Be careful what you wish for.

[bitslice]

And precisely where any argument ends.

M'kay, I'm not making or seeking an argument with you, yet you always jump straight to being offended.

Seriously. When I hear arguments like this about my content, it actually has the opposite effect on me

I'm not making an argument about your content, I'm relating what happened.



I do not write the moderation policy of other forums or why they imagine that kids have never heard swear words before.
Nobody is picking on you personally.
If you want to argue to toss about whether people in other countries don't like swearing or not, go for it, but honestly I've made all the points I think are relevant to the topic.
If you like swearing in your videos, do more of it.
It doesn't matter to me what happens next or how you want to react.

[jancumps]

...
I could have got it linked on a much bigger forum than this but I got banned for trying.
...

What forum was that?

[Fungus]

Nope, people don't work that way, in England if you swear they instantly regard you as a bit thick, in that if you can't communicate in a controlled manner then you probably can't think logically either. Whatever you say is just dismissed.

Not really true.

The problem is uncontrolled swearing. If the only adjective you know is "fucking" and you use it in every sentence then yes, you're regarded as a bit thick (rightly so!)

eg. If the title of this thread was "French Wattway Solar Roadways are fucking BULLSHIT" that would be bad.

(see the difference)

But yes, the Brits are a lot more sensitive about the actual words. In the USA/Australia you could call a TV series "Bullshit!" and get away with it. Not in the UK.

It's not that they're prudes, they just know instinctively that there's a better way. eg. Basil Fawlty would have used a lot of swear words if that program had been made in a different country. In the UK he didn't, and he's a lot funnier because of it.

(now I'm showing my age - Modern day equivalents would be shows like Celebrity Juice - that guy's a master of talking about very very bad things without using bad words and in a way that makes them hilarious).

Although people then quote Stephen Fry as a counter to this, the reaction is pretty universal.
(and Fry is a hypocritical poser because he never swears on camera himself)

Being able to turn swearing on and off at will is a sign of intelligence, yes.

(Or any other part of your language center, eg. your accent, your level of vocabulary...)

[EEVblog]

And precisely where any argument ends.

M'kay, I'm not making or seeking an argument with you, yet you always jump straight to being offended.

Don't confuse offence with simply describing how I view things.
Also, let me clue you into a little bit more about why bloggers like myself can often be mistaken as being "offended" or being too harsh etc when responding to comments like this:
An individual may suggest something, or ask something, or criticise something or whatever, and they think it's just their one voice, no big deal, right?. Well, the blogger on the other hand, particularly successful ones that get say 75,000 views per day, every day, with goodness knows how many comments, has almost certainly seen this exact comment, argument, suggestion, criticism etc expressed (by the magic of statistics) hundreds of times. It tends to grate.

BTW, I changed the title of the video and the blog URL the other day in case you hadn't noticed. You can now link it those lame forums that ban the word. You're welcome.

[EEVblog]

But yes, they Brits are a lot more sensitive about the actual words. In the USA/Australia you could call a TV series "Bullshit!" and get away with it. Not in the UK.

I do highly recommend Penn & Teller: Bullshit! 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_%26_Teller:_Bullshit!
Should be required watching for all kids.

Penn is the dropper of more F bombs than any man alive I think if you follow his work. Yet everyone loves him, because, well, he's cool.

[Fungus]

Should be required watching for all kids.

And adults.

[rrinker]

  on Penn & Teller, those guys are great.