EEVblog #846 - Solar Panel Micrometeorite Impact!

[Razor512]

Has anyone ever tried catching oncoming space debris with their hand while outside of the space station?

[boffin]

I'm going to throw out a completely different idea; I believe it was a nut (acorn/walnut/hazelnut) dropped by a bird 10-30m above.

The colour of the debris reddish/brown
Trees nearby

[miguelvp]

This is my hypothesis:



The glass pieces on the higher energy part of the impact causes the small pinpoint damage on the lower layer, as the ball gets deeper there is more surface to slow the ball down in a logarithmic fashion, then you get the traversal wave damage across the rest of the panel.

Let's also not forget we are talking about tempered glass not your everyday glass, so when it breaks it will transfer the energy to the lower layers in a more concentrated manner.

[calexanian]

This is my hypothesis:



The glass pieces on the higher energy part of the impact causes the small pinpoint damage on the lower layer, as the ball gets deeper there is more surface to slow the ball down in a logarithmic fashion, then you get the traversal wave damage across the rest of the panel.

agreed. that kind of pinpoint is similar to what happens when a large rock hits a windshield. I have had it happen to me a few times while driving down the highway.

[cdev]

A recent space probe used aerogel to catch comet dust. Space debris moves a little too fast for the usual methods of catching things.

Has anyone ever tried catching oncoming space debris with their hand while outside of the space station?

[miguelvp]

agreed. that kind of pinpoint is similar to what happens when a large rock hits a windshield. I have had it happen to me a few times while driving down the highway.

Maybe it was a rock, since a cricket ball or baseball might be too soft as others mentioned, maybe a golf ball but I seriously doubt it was a micro meteoroid

[Lightages]

Please, speeds of impact in outer space are completely different that impact speeds on the surface of the Earth. Outside of the Earth's atmosphere speeds can exceed 100 kilometers per SECOND. Impact speeds at the surface of the Earth for common impacts range from almost zero to maybe 300 kilometers per HOUR. This is orders of magnitudes lower in energy. A 0.1 mm scale sized piece of debris in outer space at 20 kilometers per SECOND has huge amounts of kinetic energy and can kill a person. A golf ball sized piece of debris at 300 kilometers per HOUR might have the chance of killing a person if it hit them on the head. Please stop comparing meteor hits in orbit around the Earth with meteorites hitting the surface of the Earth. They are nowhere near comparable.

Dave's panel was hit with something going less than 300kph, period. Based on the damage it could have been a nut falling from an airplane, a small meteorite, or maybe a chunk of blue ice. Any debris found in the crater is useless for analysis to determine what hit the panel after a couple of days as crap is falling from the sky in the form of dust sized particles continuously.

Unless Dave finds a 2cm to golf ball sized meteorite, a nut or bolt, or feces in the yard, this will never be solved.

[Muttley Snickers]

I came across a video earlier of a golf ball sized ice block simulating large hail being fired at a solar panel at high velocity in slow motion, not even a scratch to the panel and the projectile completely disintegrated, what a waste of a good ice block.

Also found some very interesting stuff on spudfiles.com, sorry I can't link either from this silly device.

[calexanian]

Please, speeds of impact in outer space are completely different that impact speeds on the surface of the Earth. Outside of the Earth's atmosphere speeds can exceed 100 kilometers per SECOND. Impact speeds at the surface of the Earth for common impacts range from almost zero to maybe 300 kilometers per HOUR. This is orders of magnitudes lowers in energy. A 0.1 mm scale sized piece of debris in outer space at 20 kilometers per SECOND has huge amounts of kinetic energy and can kill a person. A golf ball sized piece of debris at 300 kilometers per HOUR might have the chance of killing a person if it hit them on the head. Please stop comparing meteor hits in orbit around the Earth with meteorites hitting the surface of the Earth. They are nowhere near comparable.

Dave's panel was hit with something going less than 300kph, period. Based on the damage it could have been a nut falling from an airplane, a small meteorite, or maybe a chunk of blue ice. Any debris found in the crater is useless for analysis to determine what hit the panel after a couple of days as crap is falling from the sky in the form of dust sized particles continuously.

Unless Dave finds a 2cm to golf ball sized meteorite, a nut or bolt, or feces in the yard, this will never be solved.

Agreed. Things like a AA battery from a sling shot and the like should also be considered. A D cell battery from a wrist rocket can do some hefty damage as a younger me could attest.

[free_electron]

It's an early prototype of a batteriser that blew up, went suborbital and landed.

[miguelvp]

Found a picture of a rock damaged solar panel, won't link it because of the political aspects of it.

Pretty much a group of people threw rocks at this person's solar panels.



As for hail damage, there are plenty of pictures on the internet about that, but this was a single impact so it was not hail, but it can damage panels too.

Right now I'm inclined to a rock, not a small one.

[pickle9000]

It's an early prototype of a batteriser that blew up, went suborbital and landed.

Some sort of monkey explosion?

[EEVblog]

Has anyone ever tried catching oncoming space debris with their hand while outside of the space station?

Not possible I believe, because anything in same height orbit as the astronaut would be going at the same speed as the astronaut. It's not like stuff is just darting around all over the place out there, all things in the same orbit must have the same speed. And if something accelerate then you must change it's orbit.

[EEVblog]

Found a picture of a rock damaged solar panel, won't link it because of the political aspects of it.

Yes, you can (not easily) smash panels with rocks and other things, but how many of them produce sharp protrusions out the back and ripple wave impact patterns on the back surface?
That requires a lot of force, something I greatly doubt you can get from something throwing something.

[EEVblog]

Dave's panel was hit with something going less than 300kph, period. Based on the damage it could have been a nut falling from an airplane, a small meteorite, or maybe a chunk of blue ice.

Yes, but it's almost certainly faster than something someone could throw. I thin ka lot of energy is required to give the protrusion and wave pattern on the back. I have yet to see this on any other solar panel impact video or photo.

Any debris found in the crater is useless for analysis to determine what hit the panel after a couple of days as crap is falling from the sky in the form of dust sized particles continuously.

I'm not so sure, because I only see it directly in the centre, and what looks to be embedded in the glass chards. I don't see anything further out, it's very clean.

Unless Dave finds a 2cm to golf ball sized meteorite, a nut or bolt, or feces in the yard, this will never be solved.

I suspect that's the case.

[Lightages]

Has anyone ever tried catching oncoming space debris with their hand while outside of the space station?

Not possible I believe, because anything in same height orbit as the astronaut would be going at the same speed as the astronaut. It's not like stuff is just darting around all over the place out there, all things in the same orbit must have the same speed. And if something accelerate then you must change it's orbit.

WRONG!  Just because something is at the same level of an astronaut does not mean it is in orbit. I can be going a delta of anything from 0 kph to over 100s of kilometers per second. It could be a piece of rock passing by the Earth, or something in orbit around the Earth that was further than the moon at its furthest. Please, stop talking about space and astronomy if you don't know about it.

FYI, I have been an amateur astronomer, and sometimes "professional", for over 45 years. I am not talking out of my ass.

[mtdoc]

Do kids have BB or pellet air guns in Australia ?

[Muttley Snickers]

Do kids have BB or pellet air guns in Australia ?

Absolutely not, they are classed as a firearm, same applies to slingshots, etc

[Lightages]

A BB or pellet would not do this damage.

[miguelvp]

Found a picture of a rock damaged solar panel, won't link it because of the political aspects of it.

Yes, you can (not easily) smash panels with rocks and other things, but how many of them produce sharp protrusions out the back and ripple wave impact patterns on the back surface?
That requires a lot of force, something I greatly doubt you can get from something throwing something.

Well I don't have pictures of the other side of the panel but it's consistent with the damage, the initial impact point will definitely travel to the other side causing that pinpoint protrusion because of how tempered glass breaks. The ripple wave damage is just harmonic damage when the peaks combine since the panel is not rigid.

My guess is still that someone threw a large (about 10cm diameter or a bit smaller) rock to your panel, most likely a roundish rock as found by rivers.

[Muttley Snickers]

It was a message from above, the context and protocol are yet to be determined.....

[EEVblog]

Has anyone ever tried catching oncoming space debris with their hand while outside of the space station?

Not possible I believe, because anything in same height orbit as the astronaut would be going at the same speed as the astronaut. It's not like stuff is just darting around all over the place out there, all things in the same orbit must have the same speed. And if something accelerate then you must change it's orbit.

WRONG!  Just because something is at the same level of an astronaut does not mean it is in orbit. I can be going a delta of anything from 0 kph to over 100s of kilometers per second. It could be a piece of rock passing by the Earth, or something in orbit around the Earth that was further than the moon at its furthest. Please, stop talking about space and astronomy if you don't know about it.

Yes, but we are talking about space junk in orbit around the earth. Always happy to be corrected, I'm not expert on it, that's why I said "I believe". Relax.
But yes, you are right, now that I think of it same height orbits can have different directions of course, so hence different directions and hence relative speeds to each other.
Orbital things mostly travel in the same orbital direction though do they not?
And no, I will not stop talking about something I find interesting, even if I am wrong.
The point I was trying to make is that (I believe, correct me if I am wrong), two objects at the same height orbit going in the same direction and path, must be travelling at the same speed, yes?
Why don't you correct me on typical space junk then and answer the question. How likely is it that an astronaut can reach out and grab "space junk" (that has presumably been up there a long time, and essentially presumes the same orbit and direction?)?
I say not likely because it'll either be going to ridiculously fast due to some different orbital directional, or it'll be in different orbit entirely. i.e. how likely is it that random space junk "just floats by" the space station?

[Halcyon]

Things like a AA battery from a sling shot and the like should also be considered. A D cell battery from a wrist rocket can do some hefty damage as a younger me could attest.

800% more damage with the Batteriser! 

(Sorry, it was there, ripe for the picking.)

[mtdoc]

A BB or pellet would not do this damage.

At close range, I would think they could. I've seen first hand what they can do to a tempered glass door and to metal siding.

But no matter if they're not present in Australia

[ElectroNub]

Have you searched the area with a metal detector?

This is how meteor hunters find them!