EEVblog #779 - How To Measure Product Battery Cutoff Voltage

[TheElectricChicken]

you might say a 2x addition to the original to indicate 3x total but you need to suggest an addition, dividend or some such thing

[Rubi]

The joule thief looks like the father of the batteriser.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_thief

You can easily (and cheap) build one yourself and test how far you get with dead batteries.
On low amp loads (like a led) it works pretty well.

http://ern-est.github.io/projects/joule-thief.html

Btw. don't fall for the batteriser most battery powered electronic gear needs way to much current so it does not make a difference.

Cheers
Rubi

[TheAmmoniacal]

The joule thief looks like the father of the batteriser. (...)

Yes, we all know that. The thing we are curious about is the miniaturization technology.

(Also, how do they get away with such a small inductor?!)

[rollatorwieltje]

The joule thief looks like the father of the batteriser. (...)

Yes, we all know that. The thing we are curious about is the miniaturization technology.

(Also, how do they get away with such a small inductor?!)

Probably similar to on-chip voltage regulators (FIVR) like on Intel Haswell CPUs. the inductor is embedded in the chip carrier and the converter runs at a very high frequency (30 to 100+ MHz).

[Rubi]

The joule thief looks like the father of the batteriser. (...)

Yes, we all know that. The thing we are curious about is the miniaturization technology.

(Also, how do they get away with such a small inductor?!)

Higher switching frequency ->smaller inductor

[LabSpokane]

In case you're wondering where the money is coming from, here are the backers:

http://sktainnopartners.com/80-2/

Batteroo is actually housed inside a VC company called SK Telecom.  In exchange for company equity, SK will fund a startup up to $1MM USD. That seed money can be in addition to other investors as well.

So, SK is playing a very prominent background role in all this. Before anyone flies off the handle and contacts/spams/hassles them, it would be best to just wait and see if SK is a witting or unwitting partner in all this. 

Oh, to be the fly on the wall in Sunnyvale today...   

But, for those of you interested in fast-tracking a consumer-product startup, there's a lot to be learned by just clicking around the whole Batteroo network and see who the players are and what they do. Batteroo's premises may be wrong, but the actual going to market process has been well played. There's a lot to learn here.

[edy]

In case you're wondering where the money is coming from, here are the backers:

http://sktainnopartners.com/80-2/

Batteroo is actually housed inside a VC company called SK Telecom.  In exchange for company equity, SK will fund a startup up to $1MM USD. That seed money can be in addition to other investors as well.

Well it doesn't seem to be the first time a VC firm was lead down such a path. Wasn't uBeam (ultrasonic phone charger) also a VC-backed company? And the board of directors from Airing (Encite) previously did some funny business with VC money trying to develop fuel-cell batteries and went bankrupt (Echelon) and were sued by the investors... See here:

http://www.potteranderson.com/delawarecase-185.html

I don't know what the process for review is at these VC firms but obviously they like to take a risk. What seems to be new is this "mix" of VC and crowd-funding, however legally if things go down I believe the VC gets first dibs on any monies or assets and can recoup some money, while the IGG or KS backers get left high and dry. So perhaps the VC's are encouraging this to mitigate their risk.

[AmmoJammo]

The original GameBoy operates fairly well down to 2volts... that's not for 2 cells, that's four, 0.5volts per cell  It would actually still power up with the supply set to 2volts, not just operate down to it.

It's still usable down to 1.3volts, although it lost all audio, but it probably depends on the cartridge as to how much load it puts on the internal boost regulator....

Boost regulators being used in devices 26 years ago?! who would have thought!

Now, how can we market this!

[amyk]

The original GameBoy operates fairly well down to 2volts... that's not for 2 cells, that's four, 0.5volts per cell  It would actually still power up with the supply set to 2volts, not just operate down to it.

It's still usable down to 1.3volts, although it lost all audio, but it probably depends on the cartridge as to how much load it puts on the internal boost regulator....

Boost regulators being used in devices 26 years ago?! who would have thought!

Now, how can we market this!

Not bad considering that's an all-discrete self-oscillating 2-transistor converter...

(That's the only schematic I can find, although I can't figure out how the regulation is supposed to work; it seems to be a primary-side regulated design.

[EEVblog]

100% increase is a x1 INCREASE, which is x2 final total value compared to the original.

No one uses the term x1 increase.
Go try it some time and you'll get looked at very strangely.
Everyone however, even non technical people know that "x2 increase" or "2 times" means doubling of a number.

[EEVblog]

(Also, how do they get away with such a small inductor?!)

Small inductors are easy. One that provides sufficient magnetic storage to enable a high current and high efficiency boost converter over a wide range is another matter entirely.

[PA0PBZ]

(That's the only schematic I can find, although I can't figure out how the regulation is supposed to work; it seems to be a primary-side regulated design.

Put a dot just to the right of D3 where the vertical line crosses and it's clear how it works.

[EEVblog]

Batteroo's premises may be wrong, but the actual going to market process has been well played. There's a lot to learn here.

I agree. It is one of the most cleverly executed campaigns I've seen in a long time. It's been a long time in the planing I'm sure, with a ton of money spent.

[EEVblog]

What seems to be new is this "mix" of VC and crowd-funding, however legally if things go down I believe the VC gets first dibs on any monies or assets and can recoup some money, while the IGG or KS backers get left high and dry. So perhaps the VC's are encouraging this to mitigate their risk.

That would be part of it. The other part is building media and market hype through the crowd funding. In fact it's almost expected these days.
Always remember that the VC/angel investor's goal is to flip the company for profit at the first available opportunity. Crowd funding success looks good to these suckers further down the money chain.

[EEVblog]

Always remember that the VC/angel investor's goal is to flip the company for profit at the first available opportunity. Crowd funding success looks good to these suckers further down the money chain.

They even say that on their website 
http://sktainnopartners.com/overview/

SKTA Innovation Accelerator seeds and accelerates core technology startups to create and manage the essential data center. The Innovation Accelerator matches entrepreneurs with industry leading strategic partners and provides initial funding up to $1M as a combination of working capital, state-of-the-art facilities, development tools and professional services (e.g. legal and financial). Entrepreneurs concentrate on developing their technologies, while strategic partners and venture capitalists access lower-risk investment opportunities and shorter time-to-money horizons.

[edy]

Always remember that the VC/angel investor's goal is to flip the company for profit at the first available opportunity. Crowd funding success looks good to these suckers further down the money chain.

They even say that on their website 
http://sktainnopartners.com/overview/

SKTA Innovation Accelerator seeds and accelerates core technology startups to create and manage the essential data center. The Innovation Accelerator matches entrepreneurs with industry leading strategic partners and provides initial funding up to $1M as a combination of working capital, state-of-the-art facilities, development tools and professional services (e.g. legal and financial). Entrepreneurs concentrate on developing their technologies, while strategic partners and venture capitalists access lower-risk investment opportunities and shorter time-to-money horizons.

That makes sense for a real working truthfully marketed product. But for something that is more media hype than reality, wouldn't they be flipping a lemon? Or does everyone just want a piece of the money train to milk the public for as long as possible until the crash?

Well, they are still selling electronic rust inhibitors for cars after 30 years and fleecing the public so I guess this money train will go a long way. I may as well invest!

Sadly, when the proverbial train has crashed or ship has sailed, who has actually profited all that time? The engineer or the non-engineering executives who run the business and marketing and collect 100x + compensation? Who is rewarded the most? Who gets laid off first? I'm sure we all have stories about how well-meaning engineers have been treated and how innovations or quality improvement gets squashed by executive management due to cost reduction and profitability concerns, simply to pad their own grossly inflated salaries and bonuses. Pillage the company for as long as you can and move on... rewards related to performance? Sure, save money by reducing quality and cutting engineering staff, increase profit and get rewarded. Then when your product has turned into a pile of turd, it's too late and the execs have already made millions and retired, and a new pile are waiting at the door to "save" the company.

I am sure we could start a thread on this... but back to Batteriser. This company is clearly a business executive management directed enterprise and I wonder what engineers are actually being hired and whether they have any good chance of actually reaping the rewards of this venture. I guess it depends on who is taking the investment risk and who has the best skills at making money (even the most brilliant engineer without marketing and business skills would not necessarily make a hugely successful company... We need the Steve Jobs for the Wozniak). The corollary is also true... A mediocre engineer can, with the help of good business execs, can make a pile of money.

So who deserves the biggest reward? The engineer or the business person who is brilliant in their own way of marketing and selling?

One final thought... How many of us, even well-meaning engineering and scientist types, given the opportunity, would do the same thing? The University professors and engineers figure they have their shot at making a pile of money and help their lives and family, and make multiple years worth of salary compared to their current jobs. When the developer of Minecraft received a bid from Microsoft (was it $3 billion?) did he pause and think "oh no, I won't sell to this evil corporation"? He got a lot of backlash from the Minecraft community but he did what he had to. I bet many of us who want better lives for our families would not blink at being on the receiving end of a pile of money, even if it was from a product or service that is not harming people and at the very worst just useless at doing what it claims.

[TheElectricChicken]

something that is more media hype than reality

I've got a total mental allergy to anything with too much media hype. Never used twitter, never used facebook, or any other ISIS media site for that matter, when there is too much hype, like when someone suggest Torch browser and I go look at their website, up comes my lunch.

It serves extremely well as a rule of thumb. After all, who pays for any media campaign in the long run  ?

[TheElectricChicken]

A mediocre engineer can, with the help of good business execs, can make a pile of money.

Small, nasty people end up with small lives surrounded by small nasty people.

[EEVblog]

That makes sense for a real working truthfully marketed product. But for something that is more media hype than reality, wouldn't they be flipping a lemon?

Of course. But the next person to buy in doesn't know that. That's the trick, and the illusion that crowd funding success gives. Just because Joe Public bought into the product doesn't mean it actually does what it claims.

[Fungus]

That makes sense for a real working truthfully marketed product. But for something that is more media hype than reality, wouldn't they be flipping a lemon?

Of course. But the next person to buy in doesn't know that. That's the trick, and the illusion that crowd funding success gives. Just because Joe Public bought into the product doesn't mean it actually does what it claims.

Just like patents.

People often use patents as "proof" that something works. In reality the patent office isn't there to prove things work as claimed or not, they're just a registry office.

[FrankBuss]

Just like patents.

People often use patents as "proof" that something works. In reality the patent office isn't there to prove things work as claimed or not, they're just a registry office.

Patent offices don't register perpetuum mobiles, if you can't show a working machine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion#Patents

[LabSpokane]

Another day, another twist on the slew of questionable claims:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/batteroo-looks-to-save-our-planet-by-extending-battery-life-300128865.html

SUNNYVALE, Calif., Aug. 17, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- Billions of alkaline batteries used every year are causing environmental harm due to greenhouse gases emitted during battery production, transportation, environmental effects of mining for battery materials, inefficient battery recycling methods and the disposal of battery waste into landfills, say experts at Batteroo Corporation.

Crafted from stainless steel at less than .1 millimeters thin, Batteriser is a reusable sleeve that slips on over new or most "used" batteries, and instantly taps into the up to 80 percent of remaining energy that is usually thrown away. Available for AA, AAA, C- and D-cell batteries, Batteriser has been tested and proven compatible on a variety of battery-operated home and office gadgets, including wireless keyboards, noise-canceling headphones, Xbox and Wii controllers, TV remote controls, walkie-talkies, digital scales, electronic toothbrushes, portable radios, flashlights and blood pressure monitors.

Every year, more than 15 billion batteries end up in landfills. By the time they reach this final destination, they have already created a significant carbon footprint. Greenhouse gas emissions from sourcing raw materials and factory production, in addition to the transportation of batteries to retail outlets around the world, result in potentially hazardous implications for the planet. Greenhouse gas emissions are a major environmental concern due to their potential effect on global climate change.  Battery production and manufacturing was listed as a major source of greenhouse gas emissions in a 2010 study conducted by the California Department of Resources Recycling.

In addition to greenhouse gas emissions, another source of environmental harm comes from the mining of metals used in the production of disposable batteries. The environmental effect of mining is generations of chemical waste, excavation of the earth, and reduction of metallic resources, iron (steel), zinc and manganese in particular, that could be used for other much needed purposes.

Steel, zinc and manganese are not the only materials found in batteries. Batteries also contain potassium, graphite, copper, nickel, PVC, nylon and paper. Current recycling processes can only recover steel, zinc and manganese, with recycling technologies that vary depending on location affecting the percentage of material that is recoverable. Proven, cost-effective and safe recycling processes are not universally available for alkaline batteries. Additionally, many communities simply don't offer any means for collection or recycling of alkaline batteries, resulting in less than 2 percent of all batteries produced being recycled.

"The number of batteries that end up in landfills result in a significant impact on our planet and environment," said Batteroo cofounder Dr. Bob Roohparvar. "Sadly, significant number of disposable batteries end up in landfills with up to 80% of their energy remaining within them. If you line up all the disposable batteries that are thrown away each year, this would wrap around Earth 18.5 times every year! The easiest solution is to use fewer batteries. The Batteriser reduces and prevents environmental harm by increasing the lifespan of batteries, thus providing a solution where fewer batteries are produced and fewer batteries are thrown out in landfills." Additional information about how Batteroo is saving the world by saving battery life is Batteriser available at http://www.batteriser.com.

About Batteroo
Batteroo Corporation is an innovator of intelligent power management and delivery systems (Batteriser). It is a sleeve that makes contact with the positive and negative ends of a common battery to access its untapped energy at a highly efficient regulated system voltage. Batteriser can extend the life of disposable alkaline batteries by up to 800 percent, saving consumers money and saving landfills from toxic battery waste which would result in soil contamination and a laundry list of negative environmental impacts. Batteriser has been tested and proven compatible on a variety of battery-operated home and office gadgets, including wireless keyboards, noise-cancelling headphones, Xbox and Wii controllers, TV remote controls, walkie-talkies, digital scales, electric toothbrushes, toys, portable radios, flashlights, and blood pressure monitors. The company was cofounded by Bob Roohparvar, Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering, who holds more than 20 patents in his 30-year career in power management, semiconductors, and consumer products, and Frankie Roohparvar, well known executive who holds more than 500 patents. For more information visit www.batteriser.com.

Contact
Dan Miller
JPR Communications
dan@jprcom.com
818-798-1473

Logo - http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20150601/219958LOGO

 

SOURCE Batteroo

[MikeW]

Just like patents.

People often use patents as "proof" that something works. In reality the patent office isn't there to prove things work as claimed or not, they're just a registry office.

Patent offices don't register perpetuum mobiles, if you can't show a working machine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion#Patents

And as that link states, that's an exception.

[Fungus]

Another day, another twist on the slew of questionable claims:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/batteroo-looks-to-save-our-planet-by-extending-battery-life-300128865.html

A whole new round of clueless journalists are now going to repeat that without applying a single braincell to the content...?

[edy]

Another day, another twist on the slew of questionable claims:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/batteroo-looks-to-save-our-planet-by-extending-battery-life-300128865.html

A whole new round of clueless journalists are now going to repeat that without applying a single braincell to the content...?

What Journalists? This "PR Newswire" is nothing but a public relations marketing company. Here are their main selling points:

• Distribute - Reach local or global audiences across all media types.
• Amplify - Take your release beyond the basics for better results.
• Track & Manage - Track release performance and manage campaigns.

There are countless so called "Journalists" or bloggers who are paid to run stories. Even if they aren't paid directly, they will still fill their page up with key-words that Google and other media-aggregating and search sites will rank high in their list of trending topics... All because it will drive up traffic, and hence advertising clicks, and hence sales for everyone involved.

Have you noticed while surfing around lately how many "promoted stories" are being listed on many news sites, all with provocative headlines and photos? It is all meant as click-bait in order to increase advertising banner view-counts to drive up the cost for advertisers and give bloggers and media sites additional revenue!