EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[StillTrying]

I'm not so sure they know what "Guarantee:" means.

[Cerebus]

It's not google that made the mistake. The French writer says that the battery can't hold a current of 1.2V. He should use the word 'tension' instead of 'courant'.

That word has exactly the same usages as the English 'current'. Do you know enough French syntax and semantics to be sure which usage is 'current' as measured in amps and 'current' as in 'at the/this moment'? Plus, which of us hasn't occasionally said 'current' when they meant voltage or power. The structure of the sentence in question is sufficiently complex that I wasn't going to dare at a proper translation - there are at least two words that rely on you working out if they are used as verbs, nouns or adjectives and also working out their gender before you can say what they mean.

I really do hate French, even though it's the language I know best after English. I did something like 6 years of French at school and hated every minute. It was such a painful experience that I just assumed I was useless at anything other than English; then I spent a week in Germany, almost automatically learned everyday please/thankyou/"I'll have have the Hunter's Chicken with noodles and also a beer please" type German with no effort. It wasn't me that was broken, it was bloody French!

[ez24]

My AA's just arrived.

See if they fit into anything

[rrinker]

 TSA travel friendly? But what about the FAA, if they start melting people's devices. And given the way one 'bit' Dave, are they really TSA friendly? 

[AlxDroidDev]

Before the results started to roll in I thought about a camera flashgun as an intermittent high current use of batteries. But then I started thinking it is hopeless if you resort to finding very specific uses in order to justify these devices. If your demand for batteries in camera flashguns was enough to justify fart-arsing around with batterisers then you would almost certainly be able to justify rechargable cells anyway. And that is assuming batterisers were going to be useful at all.

The chief benefit of a fresh battery in a flashgun is rapid recharge time and a rechargable cell has the edge over alkalines. The other issue with camera flashguns is outdoor cold temperature use. Cold batteries perform poorly so if a batteriser could overcome that it would help. But they won't because they would demand even more from the cold cell. So it seems hopeless.

About 95% of the photographers I know - me included - use rechargeable batteries in their speedlights, usually Nikon or Canon, but also and YongNuo, Godox or anything between (nobody uses Vivitar!). The prefered brand is, by far, Eneloop, specially the black ones. I am one of those use use Eneloops black, and the only non-rechargeable battery that lets the flash be ready as quickly is the Energizer Ultimate Lithium. Everything else is crap compared to these two. Regardless of that, and I've written this before, I am willing to bet money that a Batterlooser will never fit a Nikon, Canon or YongNuo speedlight (at least none of the current models), because AA batteries are already a snug fit.

People who shoot in studios usually use continuous lights, so batteries are an irrelevant subject (except for the remote controllers, like Pocket Wizards and such), or expensive lights such as Profoto, that will have its own external battery pack.

My AA's just arrived.

See if they fit into anything

That might take a while!

TSA travel friendly? But what about the FAA, if they start melting people's devices. And given the way one 'bit' Dave, are they really TSA friendly? 

In the big picture, Batterloosers are irrelevant and it might be ages before FAA or IATA even hears about them.

[kalleboo]

Re: the RF qualms some people have had, the only FM radio I have only takes AAAs so I can't test it inside there, but holding a single Batteroo under 500 mA load on an eneloop (I don't have any alkalines that are discharged yet) up to the FM radio does not have any effect on reception. No audio distortion on an old portable CD player either.

finding the maximum current would be interesting

All I have for load testing handy right now is one of those USB dummy load (basically two massive resistors in series), and wiring that up to an AA yields a current of 500 mA. Adding the Batteroo it drops maybe 50 mA or so. Tried with both eneloops and dollar store alkalines.

Edit: with a dead short, I get 10A out of an Eneloop, and around 3-5 A with the Batteroo on. I thought it wasn't working before, but the sleeve just makes such poor contact with the battery when not under pressure... After 15 seconds of that it starts to smell like the magic smoke is trying to escape... After 30 seconds the sleeve is too hot to touch, but it's still keeping 3 A

[kalleboo]

See if they fit into anything

Fits: Portable CD player, Electric Toothbrush.
Doesn't fit: Quadcopter remote, LED christmas lights.

Struggling to find anything else I have that takes AAs...

[FrankBuss]

My AA's just arrived. The packaging is "batteroo" including the plastic case, but the sleeves themselves are "batteriser". I did NOT get the letter about active/passive loads. I've included a full scan of the paper sleeve for those who want to investigate their advertising claims. There are no CE markings or anything like that.

Don't know if this is just an outdated database entry, but searching for the UPC barcode on the Batteroo sleeve package results in this entry:

http://www.upcitemdb.com/upc/853577006001 : "Slim Edge 300 Thread Count Bamboo Sheet Set"

[EEVblog]

My AA's just arrived. The packaging is "batteroo" including the plastic case, but the sleeves themselves are "batteriser". I did NOT get the letter about active/passive loads. I've included a full scan of the paper sleeve for those who want to investigate their advertising claims.

 

Forget everything else they have said, right there on the consumer packaging hanging on the checkout shelf is the claim "Extend the life of new and most used Alkaline batteries". And "Instantly Extend Battery Life"
Right there they would not survive a challenge from the Australian ACCC, the claim is is misleading because the vast majority of overage products if used on a new battery can be demonstrably shown to reduce the life, not extend it.

[kalleboo]

I just noticed some of mine are missing bits of coating on some of the edges. I'm not sure if they came like this, or it is a result of my trying to jam these things into equipment.

[EEVblog]

Edit: with a dead short, I get 10A out of an Eneloop, and around 3-5 A with the Batteroo on. I thought it wasn't working before, but the sleeve just makes such poor contact with the battery when not under pressure... After 15 seconds of that it starts to smell like the magic smoke is trying to escape... After 30 seconds the sleeve is too hot to touch, but it's still keeping 3 A

And right here Batteroo are just begging for lawsuit.
To try and fill the world with a flimsy sleeve that relies upon the insulating coating to prevent shorts not only between the battery, but between the sleeve and the metal battery compartment wall of of products, no to mention the variability in the contacts and how will use and abuse these things. Multiple that by the 10's of millions of these things they envisage selling, it's also commercial suicide to market such a product.
And we have evidently seen some of the that already with now 2 reported cases of overheating, one that "melted" a product! 

Perhaps this is the only thing the community should be focused on investigating?

[EEVblog]

I just noticed some of mine are missing bits of coating on some of the edges. I'm not sure if they came like this, or it is a result of my trying to jam these things into equipment.

It's practically guaranteed that this coating will scrap off when people try to insert these into tight metal battery holders.
The result can easily be a dead short on the output of one of the batteries in series.

[Don Hills]

... The packaging is "batteroo" including the plastic case, but the sleeves themselves are "batteriser". ...

The title on the cardboard packaging is "Batteroo", but the picture on the packaging is "Batteriser". Has anyone actually received sleeves with "Batteroo" stamped on them?

[Hensingler]

And right here Batteroo are just begging for lawsuit.

kalleboo is using eneloops. I speculated the low internal resistance might be why they don't recommend use with rechargeables.

And we have evidently seen some of the that already with now 2 reported cases of overheating

There have been 3. The woman? with LED candles, the guy who burnt his fingers on the prongs, and the $200 equipment melter.

Someone else unimpressed on indiegogo

matt
2 hours ago

Got mine. Tried to install in 2 devices. One broke as I tried to get it to fit. The other device didn’t fit either. I get the risk in crowd funding and I am fine with it. I can’t see this being successful based on my experience.

[kalleboo]

kalleboo is using eneloops. I speculated the low internal resistance might be why they don't recommend use with rechargeables.

I've given it a go with alkalines as well, same current output with the Batteroo on. The top of the sleeve still gets too hot to touch, but it seems to put out less heat than with the eneloops. This could be because the alkalines are still fresh (1.6 V) so it doesn't have to actually do any boost converting.

[amyk]

The instructions are backwards; step 2 should be before step 1. However, I'd like to see at least one of them eventually sacrificed to determine what happens if one is put onto a battery the wrong way around.

That packaging is weird - the picture and diagrams all show "Batteriser", but it's "Batteroo" in the text.

[kalleboo]

The instructions are backwards; step 2 should be before step 1. However, I'd like to see at least one of them eventually sacrificed to determine what happens if one is put onto a battery the wrong way around.

The negative terminal of the battery can't reach the positive terminal of the sleeve due to the PCB components/potting compound

[Hensingler]

Perhaps this is the only thing the community should be focused on investigating?

Should have commented in my previous post. I disagree.  That would let them get away with claiming a poor implementation of something that works instead of showing they designed and crowd funded something that never was going to work.

[kalleboo]

While they don't pose the same hazard as the sharp edges, the stencilled letters are conductive...

[Hensingler]

Don't know if this is just an outdated database entry, but searching for the UPC barcode on the Batteroo sleeve package results in this entry:

The company part of the number is registered to Batteroo Inc. Might be the sheet sets were using a made up number.

[digsys]

The top of the sleeve still gets too hot to touch, but it seems to put out less heat than with the eneloops. This could be because the alkalines are still fresh (1.6 V) so it doesn't have to actually do any boost converting.

Actually, not strictly correct. Even if the converter is off?, it still has to pass the full current, and it is still switching. And it still suffers the losses.
The only saving grace is the switching current difference = higher at lower VBatt

[digsys]

  It's practically guaranteed that ...

It's practically guaranteed that if you wife catches you here, while supposed to be on family holidays, you'll return will less parts !! :-)

[quad]

I think it'd be fun if someone came up with a plausible real world situation where the Batteriser melts a product or starts a fire (and gets it on camera).

Narrowing down likely cases could be done with a bit of thinking.

[kalleboo]

Time for some *highly* scientific testing... 



It's really hard to test these things until the battery holders I ordered arrive, since the positive terminal of the battery doesn't make contact with the sleeve unless there's compression on the battery, so probing stuff turns into an acrobatic feat.

I also don't have a very good temp probe, but I reached 100 C on the positive terminal of the sleeve after 3 minutes, and after 5 minutes the whole battery was too hot to hold in your hand. Don't think it got hot enough to melt anything.

[GoneTomorrow]

To infinity and beyond...



Who'd have thought back in June 2015 that this would become the most-replied-to thread on the entire forum?