EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[StuUK]

Pretty offensive but lets face it if you start trying to dissect somebody's personality and motives online without even knowing them (or even if you do) you can expect some retaliation...

Clearly nothing to be achieved fuelling that fire, lets move on and see if we can find some other lucky soul who's willing to subject their Batteriser/Batteroo to a scientific test....

[Halcyon]

Sorry if I lumped you all in the same basket previously.

You're forgiven.

It begs the question – is duration or performance more important in a battery? It depends on the requirements of the particular device, market and consumer.

Well that comes down to the product and application. However running a product above and beyond what it was originally designed probably isn't the best option. As for the Batteriser specifically, it promises to extend the battery life, not improve a products performance. To take your example, what good is a fun time if it doesn't last very long? ;-)

Does this mean that Batteriser works as claimed? Not necessarily, it will take more actual testing to prove it one way or another.

One thing's for sure, I'm going to keep repeating this experiment to confirm the results are in fact accurate - you know the saying "measure twice - cut once".

Anyway, I’m out of here. This is definitely the last time I comment on here.
(In fact Dave, can you please permanently delete my registration)

Completely agree, however I just wish you'd stop resisting the help and advice of some very clever people here, Dave included. You said yourself you aren't the expert, so why not let an expert have a go? You're looking at being a reseller, why not take the opportunity to get some free and thorough testing done on a product you intend to sell? Worst case, the product doesn't function as advertised and you decide not to sell it, best case, you have a butt load of data to do with as you wish.

Surely you're mature and experienced enough to participate in a meaningful discussion and experiment, rather than focussing on the minority who seem to piss you off? The majority of people are here to learn and commencing your post with "Hey Tossers" isn't exactly a great way to promote yourself or your business to the majority of those who are respectful and are doing the right thing. I'd like to think we all have a bit of a better grasp of the English language around here.

[Delta]

G'day Wayne. 

I would much rather be a tosser than an immoral snake oil salesman.

You surely know that the claims made by batteroo are impossible, but yet you hope to punt these things to an unsuspecting public in order to make a quick buck.  You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Luminax]

Hmmm that reminded me...
Anyone who have 'voice' on the IndieGogo campaign page tried to contact Sean Caskey?
Just wondering...

Although on second thought, it seems that most of the people who claimed to have received shipment, except Wayne, seems to be shill accounts so eh...

[Fungus]

I thought I'd dissect Wayne's data, unfortunately it's not very consistent...

I think he's measuring voltages under no load, random amounts of time after they've been taken out of the flashlights/torches.

I'm not sure if those flashlights/torches would let you measure voltage under load, probably not. 30 seconds random delay between removing and measuring would make a huge difference to the readings. You should either do it as fast as possible or leave them for twenty minutes to recover.

He's also measuring one set under no load with batteriser in place. This will obviously tell you NOTHING about the state of the battery.

Looks like Wayne isn't coming back so all further discussion in that direction is pointless. Let's see of any other sets of Batterisers turn up anywhere. I have a feeling Bob is choosing the recipients carefully though (if he's even posting any more, which I doubt).

Still nobody in the USA with Batterisers?

Wayne: If you're reading this, that means Bob lied to you at least once on the telephone. There's no way in hell Bob has posted 30% of the Batteriser orders from inside the USA and nobody there got one yet.

[westfw]

It is well past time for this to stop.

Really.  The thread has LONG AGO devolved from being a good example of "how to debunk a product."
Hints: complex conspiracy theories, speculations on producer motivations, and psychological evaluations of ... anybody should not be involved.  Sure, tracking a possibly fraudulent crowdfunding campaign can be fun, but that's NOT the same as debunking the product.
We should have locked the thread after the initial science/engineering evaluation UNTIL the product was in-hand to test.
(A product that never shows up doesn't much need debunking, does it?)

[EEVblog]

Anyone who have 'voice' on the IndieGogo campaign page tried to contact Sean Caskey?

I have tried to contact him.

[Luminax]

Anyone who have 'voice' on the IndieGogo campaign page tried to contact Sean Caskey?

I have tried to contact him.

Nice. The 'No anonymous' part in his post kind of points at the possibility that he might be one of the 'interested supplier' that Bob might've scored somewhere, thing might be looking up?

[EEVblog]

We should have locked the thread after the initial science/engineering evaluation UNTIL the product was in-hand to test.
(A product that never shows up doesn't much need debunking, does it?)

You don't get it. In an industry usually devoid of entertainment, the Batteriser has delivered that in spades. Most people don't follow the forum's 2nd most popular thread to debunk the product (the impossibility of the claims is obvious to any competent engineer), they are here for the 

[g.lewarne]

It is well past time for this to stop.

Really.  The thread has LONG AGO devolved from being a good example of "how to debunk a product."
Hints: complex conspiracy theories, speculations on producer motivations, and psychological evaluations of ... anybody should not be involved.  Sure, tracking a possibly fraudulent crowdfunding campaign can be fun, but that's NOT the same as debunking the product.
We should have locked the thread after the initial science/engineering evaluation UNTIL the product was in-hand to test.
(A product that never shows up doesn't much need debunking, does it?)

Actually, you make some very good points.

As far as I'm concerned, this would be true in most other cases.  BUT - the moment they started making it personal against Dave and the Forum here (muppet video, "Davey jonez", youtube voting etc etc) it turned into fair game, as far as I'm concerned. 

EEVBlog is itself as much a part of this charade now as the original product.

[Fungus]

Sure, tracking a possibly fraudulent crowdfunding campaign can be fun

Yep.

but that's NOT the same as debunking the product.

Praise be to Glub.

We should have locked the thread after the initial science/engineering evaluation UNTIL the product was in-hand to test. (A product that never shows up doesn't much need debunking, does it?)

??

a) This is one of the longest threads ever
b) It's an engineering soap opera with Bob Roobarb is the evil villain
c) It's full of photoshopped pictures of Bob, a monkey called 'Probes', etc.
and
d) Nobody forces you to read it.

[Luminax]

It is well past time for this to stop.

Really.  The thread has LONG AGO devolved from being a good example of "how to debunk a product."
Hints: complex conspiracy theories, speculations on producer motivations, and psychological evaluations of ... anybody should not be involved.  Sure, tracking a possibly fraudulent crowdfunding campaign can be fun, but that's NOT the same as debunking the product.
We should have locked the thread after the initial science/engineering evaluation UNTIL the product was in-hand to test.
(A product that never shows up doesn't much need debunking, does it?)

Actually, you make some very good points.

As far as I'm concerned, this would be true in most other cases.  BUT - the moment they started making it personal against Dave and the Forum here (muppet video, "Davey jonez", youtube voting etc etc) it turned into fair game, as far as I'm concerned. 

EEVBlog is itself as much a part of this charade now as the original product.

I think we can pretty much safely say that EEVBlog, especially this thread's particular video, was the thing that started it all.
Boob/Pranky might've had good albeit probably a bit shady initial intention, we have no way to confirm that.
The product itself does work as a DC-DC converter battery sleeve.
The initial overmarketting video is actually what one would expect from your usual marketting(read:bullshitter) crowd(no offense to honest-to-goodness marketting crowds, if that even exist).
The back-and-forth created after the video is what provided this Academy Award, Golden Globe Award worthy drama unfolding before us.
Sit back and 

[madires]

You don't get it. In an industry usually devoid of entertainment, the Batteriser has delivered that in spades. Most people don't follow the forum's 2nd most popular thread to debunk the product (the impossibility of the claims is obvious to any competent engineer), they are here for the 

BTW, is there a top 10 list of the most popular threads?

[quad]

BTW, is there a top 10 list of the most popular threads?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/stats/

[EEVblog]

I think we can pretty much safely say that EEVBlog, especially this thread's particular video, was the thing that started it all.
Boob/Pranky might've had good albeit probably a bit shady initial intention, we have no way to confirm that.
The product itself does work as a DC-DC converter battery sleeve.
The initial overmarketting video is actually what one would expect from your usual marketting(read:bullshitter) crowd(no offense to honest-to-goodness marketting crowds, if that even exist).
The back-and-forth created after the video is what provided this Academy Award, Golden Globe Award worthy drama unfolding before us.

My (and others) videos and especially the forum have played a key role in shaping the product and it's claims. How many times has something been mentioned/busted/exposed on this forum and a day later Batteroo have changed their website, their claims, their wording, etc etc. There has to be at least half a dozen examples. It's all chronicled here.

[Brumby]

I was going to add to Fungus' list - but Dave just covered the point .... That this thread has helped shape Batteroo.

[rrinker]

 Despite the fact that Bob has said Dave has no idea what he's doing because he's not a PhD like his Batteroo team. Or was that when he thought Dave actually had no technical degree whatsoever and instead went to acting school?

 Is it bad I knew exactly what (well, at least in general terms) the 'device' was that Wayne was testing in long before he revealed it at the bottom of the post? 

You don't get it. In an industry usually devoid of entertainment, the Batteriser has delivered that in spades. Most people don't follow the forum's 2nd most popular thread to debunk the product (the impossibility of the claims is obvious to any competent engineer), they are here for the 

 Indeed. There hasn't been a write-only memory data sheet sort of thing in a long while. Usually we get by with mocking stock photos. Batteroo has been and continues to provide one huge entertainment spectacle. Though outside of the forum here I have seen nothing (I don't follow their FB page or bother looking at the Indiegogo page) much of any mention of the product or company. Not that I'm actively looking, but I follow a few technical sites that, if there was a news item, would have linked it or reported on it.

[CJay]

Despite the fact that Bob has said Dave has no idea what he's doing because he's not a PhD like his Batteroo team. Or was that when he thought Dave actually had no technical degree whatsoever and instead went to acting school?

 Is it bad I knew exactly what (well, at least in general terms) the 'device' was that Wayne was testing in long before he revealed it at the bottom of the post? 

I had the same thought when I saw the wording of the first para or two, it was pretty obvious that he was taking the p*ss.

Personal feeling and until proven wrong, it feels like a scam to me but Wayne may well be an eager evangelist/dupe to a scheme that feels as though it's morphing into a pyramid/MLM type of scheme.

[Fungus]

Personal feeling and until proven wrong, it feels like a scam to me but Wayne may well be an eager evangelist/dupe

I don't know if Wayne is complicit or a dupe, it's impossible to judge.

I do know there's no way in hell Wayne was chosen randomly to receive the only-known box of Batterisers. Bob chose him specifically.

[Kalvin]

Despite the fact that Bob has said Dave has no idea what he's doing because he's not a PhD like his Batteroo team. Or was that when he thought Dave actually had no technical degree whatsoever and instead went to acting school?

What can you say about a PhD who claims having over 30 years of electrical engineering experience, who acts to be an expert in battery technology, but who doesn't seem to know the basics of the electronics and cannot even calculate the battery capacity correctly. At least Dave got it right, even without PhD. I guess Bob got pissed off by this simple fact.

[madires]

Let's simply wait for Dave getting Batteroo sleeves from a forum member or some other kind backer. Bob's IGG updates on shipping will provide sufficient entertainment meanwhile.

PS: A business man would sell a $2.5 product happily for $100. Easy money.

[Blocco]

I suspect that Wayne has had some recent correspondence with Bob. On one hand he presents himself as a straight-talking, no bullshit, cynic, and yet on the other, he appears to have some allegiance to the Batteroo faith even though his own "tests" fall far short of demonstrating that the Batteroo sleeves come close to producing any real performance gains. His latest comment on IGG reads more like something Bob would say rather than the  robust-talking Wayne we are so familiar with on this forum.

[Fungus]

A business man would sell a $2.5 product happily for $100. Easy money.

I thought Dave upped the bounty to $1000 a few pages ago.


PS: Does anybody understand this part of Wayne's post?

.... then to top it off, Dave back door’s me with an email offering to buy them all at some inflated price.
I’m not some dumb gullible fuck!

Which part of selling them for a huge profit would make him 'gullible'? 

[madires]

The bounty is $100 plus about $1.50/1000 views for the video, maybe $200-400 in total. My guess is, that this would be a much better deal than waiting for Batteroo's real production units, if they ever will be made. Until Batteroo can deliver tons of sleeves (which implies a working product), no distributor is able to talk to chain stores, which would be the logical step for selling a cheap item for making profit. Selling a few via a small online shop is nonsense, too much trouble for a laughable margin.

[timb]

I'll personally add an additional $10 to the bounty, if *Wayne* will send his units to Dave.

Edit: If every regular poster in this thread adds another $10 it might be an offer Wayne can't refuse.