EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!

[DaveWing]

What you expend in the load you get back. That is what I am saying... Do the test.

You don't seem to understand. What you expend in the load you lose. It's gone. If you start out with $100 in your wallet and you spend $40, your wallet is $40 lighter. You can't magically attach rubber bands to the $40 and get it back after you have spent it. Once spent, it is gone. To replace it you have to get more money from somewhere else, for example by working and getting paid.

Believe me at one time I thought the same way...

-Dave Wng

[wraper]

The machine as drawn with four batteries will recover the amps you use in the circuit. It proves that an electric motor does not convert electricity into mechanical energy as the electricity can be recovered in the small side differential battery before going to ground of the 24 volt primary. Plus you also get all the shaft energy and the recovery from the coil collapse.

Anyone can do the simple test of putting two 12 volt batteries in series for 24 volts and then connecting the negative of the 24 volt bank to another single 12 volt battery negative and putting a DC motor in between the two positives and running the motor to see if the 12 volt single battery will charge or not.

-Dave Wing

LOL, that is the same as when you charge iphone batter from the power bank  . In this particular case fan works like current limiting ballast. When you load the shaft, current through fan increases, therefore battery charges faster. This is fucking stupid, you could put the resistor or light bulb instead of the fan and will get exactly the same result. There is no free energy, you just transfer energy from one battery to another.

[DaveWing]

I never said there is any free energy involved... Just recycling what a load uses so it can be used more than once in a electrical system.  It does not have to be lost directly to ground as we have been taught.

-Dave Wing

[elgonzo]

That is ridiculous. Seriously.

The motor spends energy if it rotates (it also spends a little amount of energy has heat). That is gone.

But you know what? If you really can recycle the energy you spent in the motor, then why not replace the battery to be charged just with another motor (instead of storing the recycle energy in the battery use it for the 2nd motor).
You can then also recycle the energy spent in that 2nd motor (you obviously know already how to do that with the 1st motor), and you can then add a 3rd motor (and recycle the energy you spent in that motor). Then add a 4th motor... And so on, and so forth...

Eventually, you have enough motors with enough combined torque to drive a bike. Add some more motors... finally (after you added enough motors which all use the recycled spent energy of the motors before them) you can drive a highspeed train with a little 12V battery. Do you really seem to think that this is possible, or am i missing something?

[IanB]

I never said there is any free energy involved... Just recycling what a load uses so it can be used more than once in a electrical system.  It does not have to be lost directly to ground as we have been taught.

Please keep going. You are really entertaining us 

[wraper]

I never said there is any free energy involved... Just recycling what a load uses so it can be used more than once in a electrical system.

LOL second time. Nothing is recycled. Actually energy loses are higher than if you just ran the fan from a single 12V battery. Charging is not 100% efficient, therefore when you charge one battery from another even more energy is lost. These are school level physics.

It does not have to be lost directly to ground as we have been taught.
-Dave Wing

Do not say "we". Most of us (forum users) do not share the mess in your head. Energy lost to ground, that is something new  .

[Smokey]

... You can't magically attach rubber bands to the $40 and get it back after you have spent it....

Oh yeah?

[DaveWing]

I never said there is any free energy involved... Just recycling what a load uses so it can be used more than once in a electrical system.

LOL second time. Nothing is recycled. Actually energy loses are higher than if you just ran the fan from a single 12V battery. Charging is not 100% efficient, therefore when you charge one battery from another even more energy is lost. These are school level physics.

It does not have to be lost directly to ground as we have been taught.
-Dave Wing

Do not say "we". Most of us (forum users) do not share the mess in your head. Energy lost to ground, that is something new  .

If we have a fully charged battery... The lead ions are free to move and are not trapped in the plates of a discharged battery...so the efficiency of the battery stays at a very high level and we can now run another identical motor directly across the small side 12 volt battery and that particular battery will remain in a fully charged state with no further current draw from the 24 volt battery section.

Do the test below and see what happens... Then put another identical load across the fully charged 12 volt battery and see how it affects the 24 volt section voltage and current draw of the first load. Let me know what you find out.

-Dave Wing

[amyk]

Do the test below and see what happens... Then put another identical load across the fully charged 12 volt battery and see how it affects the 24 volt section voltage and current draw of the first load. Let me know what you find out.

Google up the internal resistance of a typical lead-acid battery. Apply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchhoff%27s_circuit_laws to your circuit. Let me know what you find out.

[Tac Eht Xilef]

The lead ions are free to move and are not trapped in the plates of a discharged battery...

Hint: in a lead-acid battery, lead 'ions' don't have to move anywhere...

[elgonzo]

The lead ions are free to move and are not trapped in the plates of a discharged battery...

Hint: in a lead-acid battery, lead 'ions' don't have to move anywhere...

There are no lead 'ions' at all in a lead-acid battery. There are electrons and hydrogen ions (protons). The hydrogen ions can indeed move freely...

[Tac Eht Xilef]

The lead ions are free to move and are not trapped in the plates of a discharged battery...

Hint: in a lead-acid battery, lead 'ions' don't have to move anywhere...

There are no lead 'ions' at all in a lead-acid battery. There are electrons and hydrogen ions (protons). The hydrogen ions can indeed move freely...

You know that, and I know that, but...

Hence the quote marks around 'ions'.

p.s. there's also sulphate ions

[elgonzo]

You know that, and I know that, but...

Hence the quote marks around 'ions'.

p.s. there's also sulphate ions

Haha, yes, i totally forgot the Bisulphate anions (which are also mobile). But enough thread-derailing for today

[LabSpokane]

What you expend in the load you get back. That is what I am saying... Do the test.

You don't seem to understand. What you expend in the load you lose. It's gone. If you start out with $100 in your wallet and you spend $40, your wallet is $40 lighter. You can't magically attach rubber bands to the $40 and get it back after you have spent it. Once spent, it is gone. To replace it you have to get more money from somewhere else, for example by working and getting paid.

Believe me at one time I thought the same way...

-Dave Wng

You need to build a time machine.  Yesterday...

[EEVblog]

Look guys just try it... Surely you can get three identical batteries and some type of load together.

That's not how it works.
You've claimed something extraordinary against the basic law of conservation of energy, so you are the one that gets to prove it to us.

[EEVblog]

Look, it's really simple. You analyze such a system by drawing a control envelope around it and looking at flows of energy that cross the system boundary. If all the batteries are inside the envelope and the the load does something useful (i.e. it transmits power outside the envelope), then the total energy that starts out inside the system decreases. The only way to reverse that situation is to transmit power back inside the envelope from outside. None of the diagrams you showed indicate a power flow back into the system. Therefore the system will lose energy until it can no longer do any useful work.

Exactly.
And it's not just the load that transfers energy outside the system, it is the internal resistance losses in the chemistry and battery construction that also dissipate energy as heat.

[Zucca]

In Italy we use to say that the worste deaf person is the one who doesn't want to listen.

[EEVblog]

Generally... What you expend in the load you get back. That is what I am saying... Do the test.

Basic battery charging theory shatters your entire illusion.
This is why coulomb charge counting circuits require calibration, because of the losses.
If you measure 1 coulomb of charge going into a battery, you won't have precisely 1 coulomb of charge in there to draw back out because of the internal losses.
If you think otherwise then you have not measured your system properly.

[EEVblog]

I never said there is any free energy involved... Just recycling what a load uses so it can be used more than once in a electrical system.  It does not have to be lost directly to ground as we have been taught.

What's ground got to do with anything?
This is all about losses in the load and battery internals as heat. This heat energy escapes your closed system, never to be returned. That very real energy comes from the chemical energy in your batteries.
You can capture some of that otheriwse wasted energy to put back into the system and charge the batteries, like regenerative braking does in electric cars, but you can't get it all back.

[EEVblog]

Do the test below and see what happens...

How about you do the test and shows us the results. Make it a nice details youtube video please with full explanations of the measurements and how you are doing them.

[digital]

The video quality on my Dell monitor at 1900*1200 is excellent and good old basic engineering practice wins again thanks Dave

[digital]

Basic law, energy can be neither created or destroyed only change state

[masster]

 @DaveJones
Trying to debunk the ENTIRE free energy domain by ranting theatrically over a video of an idiot on YouTube, makes you an idiot too. And an asshole. Because you are mocking the memory of hundreds of researchers that were marginalized, discredited, threatened, blackmailed or suppressed by the Vested Interests.

You showed everybody how limited is your thought process and what jerk you can be.
No serious researcher in the free energy field will claim he gets more energy out than total energy in. There is not such nonsense as overunity. What you're missing is the ENVIRONMENT, that you presume to be empty. But if you would pull your head out of your quantum ass, you would discover the real life physics, not the one truncated and isolated from the environment that millions of children learned in school like robots.

You should apologize to all subscribers by saying this:
"I, David Jones, I am too stupid, stubborn and arrogant  to admit there are things I don't understand. In my retarded philosophy, if I don't understand them, that means they don't exist. So I apologize because I tried to manipulate you and used a stupid video of an amateur to cheapen and degrade the free energy research domain. I didn't make the slightest effort to separate the amateurish work of a loser from respectable scientists or anonymous researchers that had their lives ruined or terminated because they tried to give humanity the energy freedom, progress, and civilization. I humbly admit I did wrong."

If you do not feel the need to apologize or if you try to excuse yourself coming with pathetic semantic twisting games, you will lose any kind of respect from anyone having an open mind towards scientific progress.

[Nerobro]

Dave, did you check the voltage going to the LEDs?  I think your efficiency is better than the 50% you said in the video. 

[G7PSK]

Basic law, energy can be neither created or destroyed only change state

But matter can be transformed into energy and is in a battery even. Wherever there is a chemical reaction some matter is lost as heat energy, weigh the coal and air going into a power station and the ashes and fumes coming out and the difference in weight is the energy produced. So energy has mass and mass has or is energy. Put that together with the 3 batteries and fan and even if it was 100% efficient you will eventually run out of reaction mass ie. the lead and acid.