EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!

[devanno]

Dave, this was not only a most humorous video, but educational as well.  I'm just getting back into the Electronics thing after many decades of inattention, and found that I was able to pretty much predict what you were going to say next, so I must be learning. :-)   

I started reading the original thread in the blog, and my eye muscles got tired of the rolling motion, so quit wasting my time reading about "free energy."   When I saw that you'd created the video (at about midnight my time), despite being tired, I stayed up to watch it... and found myself both laughing and being absorbed with the lesson.  Thank you!

    

[eneuro]

A resistor in series with the capacitor makes the on-time more predictable.
The on-time is controlled by the capacitor and its series resistor. 

Just trying to make this circuit more predictable
Do you mean something like this-I'm not analog fan, but rather like to live in digital world, so not sure if this change is what you talking about?

It could be fun to use only two transistors and by adding some toroid core make simply low power SMPS.
I've found BC557 & BC337 Spice models, so I can try simulate this thing in Spice and try to adjust R11, R12  or remove them if current between PNP and NPN transistors will be limited nice by PNP gain, but it could be nice to find a way to have similar ON/OFF times...
but probably this R13 resistor will create voltage divider with oryginal R10 100k and this oscilator will not work..
Anyway it looked like the only possible way to make C10 capacitor similar RC constants during charge and discharge, or I missed something? 
Lets find it out 

[DaveWing]

So with the Bedini we have two different things going on with this School Girl (SG) Energizer /oscillator, that were not present in the circuit presented by the person in Dave's video. First the inductor imparts a magnetic field that is used to rotate the rotor and second the diode directs the flyback into the second battery as it is across the coil. It is plain for all to see that these two things set the SG apart from what we see on the video and on this thread.

-Dave Wing

[eneuro]

It is plain for all to see that these two things set the SG apart from what we see on the video and on this thread.

Yep, oryginal circuit from this thread wasn't perfect - my modified circuit now is simulated in Spice and... If I will make it usable and stable at vacum, I will be able light on not a few wats LEDs but.. a few kW (kiloWats) light bulbs ...with AC mosfets switch which needs so small charge on input, but can output hundreds, if not thausands more power 

[FrankBuss]

Myriad of things, but it mostly boils down to: phase angle isn't really a useful quantity anymore. It's from the olden days when AC current drawn was still pretty much perfectly sinusoidal.

Right, but the signal looks sinusoidal on his scope.

[timelessbeing]

recover very close to 100% of what you put in from the run battery, depending upon how the circuit is configured.

I can tell just from glancing at the schematic, and all the lossy components, that it will never come even remotely close to 100% You are dreaming.

If Bedini actually received a patent for his "Randiant" energy, then I'm very disappointed.

[rob77]

If Bedini actually received a patent for his "Randiant" energy, then I'm very disappointed.

why disappointed ? half of the patents are even bigger bullshit patents has nothing to do with science or common sense... patents are just a way of making money nowadays

[DaveWing]

recover very close to 100% of what you put in from the run battery, depending upon how the circuit is configured.

I can tell just from glancing at the schematic, and all the lossy components, that it will never come even remotely close to 100% You are dreaming.

If Bedini actually received a patent for his "Randiant" energy, then I'm very disappointed.

John Bedini and his machine, was broken into three seperate patents...

If you look back I said...

...and recover very close to 100% of what you put in from the run battery, depending upon how the circuit is configured.

I said "depending up how the circuit is configured."  You must configure the SG system in a manner that allows maximum energy recovery. So how do you do this? You simply connect a motor or oscillating circuit across a higher potential battery, with a lower potential connected in series with the load. All current you use from the higher potential battery is drawn through the lower potential battery and it receives a charge that is dependant upon the load and the differential voltage between the two batteries.

Do not knock it until you try it... It works and is not a joke.

See images below.

In the four position paint diagram...The lower potential(1.5volt single cell) dead battery will receive all current from the low resistance load that comes from the 3 volt side because the polarity and current flow are in the proper direction to charge the single 1.5 volt cell. Since the positive and negatives are connected together we have a voltage differential or difference of 1.5 volts... So 1.5 volts is powering the circuit, at whatever amp draw the load is drawing.

Try a electric motor and then an electric light bulb and see how the low side battery charges. And compare the results. Anyone can do this and see how we have been mislead into believing that we must tie the load directly to ground only and not directed into a lower potential battery before tying to ground.

-Dave Wing

[Andy Watson]

Do not knock it until you try it... It works and is not a joke.

Why? What is this circuit supposed to achieve?

[DaveWing]

It conserves energy. You can power a circuit or load and have the capability to recycle or store all the energy you expend in powering your load.

Take three identical batteries and arrange them with a light bulb or electric motor as a load, as the image above describes and you will see what I mean.

-Dave Wing

[Andy Watson]

It conserves energy. You can power a circuit or load and have the capability to recycle or store all the energy you expend in powering your load.

Can you point to any evidence of this? I.e. a specific instance of the input ENERGY being measured against the ENERGY in the load.

[Mr.B]

It conserves energy. You can power a circuit or load and have the capability to recycle or store all the energy you expend in powering your load.

Sounds like a perpetual motion claim.
BS meter at 110%... 

[DaveWing]

Look guys just try it... Surely you can get three identical batteries and some type of load together.

-Dave Wing

[Andy Watson]

Look guys just try it... Surely you can get three identical batteries and some type of load together.

Should I take that to mean that you haven't made the measurement ?

[DaveWing]

No you should not take that to mean I have not taken the measurement. 

I have done multiple tests with different loads. In one such test I took a 12 volt fan motor and placed it between the three fully charged lead acid 12 volt batteries as described in the drawing, it ran at 800mA. It started to quickly over charge the small side 12 volt battery while running on the differential between the two sets of batteries. It should be noted that the more you load the shaft of the DC motor the higher the charge rate of the small side battery would increase.

-Dave Wing

[Andy Watson]

No you should not take that to mean I have not taken the measurement. 

I have done multiple tests with different loads. In one such test I took a 12 volt fan motor and placed it between the three fully charged lead acid 12 volt batteries as described in the drawing, it ran at 800mA. It started to quickly over charge the small side 12 volt battery while running on the differential between the two sets of batteries. It should be noted that the more you load the shaft of the DC motor the higher the charge rate of the small side battery would increase.

And what were the input  voltages and currents compared to the output voltages and currents (assuming you have the means to reliably  measure the pulsatile output).

[DaveWing]

I understand the difficulty in measuring a pulsed system. That is why I made it simple and gave you an example of a straight uniturupted DC load hooked between the two sets of batteries, with no pulses involved.

-Dave Wing

[DaveWing]

The machine as drawn with four batteries will recover the amps you use in the circuit. It proves that an electric motor does not convert electricity into mechanical energy as the electricity can be recovered in the small side differential battery before going to ground of the 24 volt primary. Plus you also get all the shaft energy and the recovery from the coil collapse.

Anyone can do the simple test of putting two 12 volt batteries in series for 24 volts and then connecting the negative of the 24 volt bank to another single 12 volt battery negative and putting a DC motor in between the two positives and running the motor to see if the 12 volt single battery will charge or not.

-Dave Wing

[DaveWing]

I am not talking about a series circuit. You need to get three batteries and set it up as described.

-Dave Wing

[IanB]

Anyone can do the simple test of putting two 12 volt batteries in series for 24 volts and then connecting the negative of the 24 volt bank to another single 12 volt battery negative and putting a DC motor in between the two positives and running the motor to see if the 12 volt single battery will charge or not.

Of course it will charge, if it has current flowing through it. But that doesn't mean that it can get back the energy expended in the load.

Look, it's really simple. You analyze such a system by drawing a control envelope around it and looking at flows of energy that cross the system boundary. If all the batteries are inside the envelope and the the load does something useful (i.e. it transmits power outside the envelope), then the total energy that starts out inside the system decreases. The only way to reverse that situation is to transmit power back inside the envelope from outside. None of the diagrams you showed indicate a power flow back into the system. Therefore the system will lose energy until it can no longer do any useful work.

[BlueBill]

What the hell am I reading?

[DaveWing]

Anyone can do the simple test of putting two 12 volt batteries in series for 24 volts and then connecting the negative of the 24 volt bank to another single 12 volt battery negative and putting a DC motor in between the two positives and running the motor to see if the 12 volt single battery will charge or not.

Of course it will charge, if it has current flowing through it. But that doesn't mean that it can get back the energy expended in the load.

Look, it's really simple. You analyze such a system by drawing a control envelope around it and looking at flows of energy that cross the system boundary. If all the batteries are inside the envelope and the the load does something useful (i.e. it transmits power outside the envelope), then the total energy that starts out inside the system decreases. The only way to reverse that situation is to transmit power back inside the envelope from outside. None of the diagrams you showed indicate a power flow back into the system. Therefore the system will lose energy until it can no longer do any useful work.

Generally... What you expend in the load you get back. That is what I am saying... Do the test.

-Dave Wing

[IanB]

What you expend in the load you get back. That is what I am saying... Do the test.

You don't seem to understand. What you expend in the load you lose. It's gone. If you start out with $100 in your wallet and you spend $40, your wallet is $40 lighter. You can't magically attach rubber bands to the $40 and get it back after you have spent it. Once spent, it is gone. To replace it you have to get more money from somewhere else, for example by working and getting paid.

[IanB]

You're reading a new Troll in our midst and a group of people who don't know better than to NOT feed a Troll.

Feeding trolls can be entertaining. Like feeding chimpanzees at the zoo...

[amyk]

Generally... What you expend in the load you get back. That is what I am saying... Do the test.

You are charging a battery and powering something else at the same time. Nothing unusual or overunity about that. Keep doing it enough times and you'll find that all the batteries eventually discharge to nothing.