EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!

[george graves]

Yet...them pay checks!

[ziggyfish]

Unfortunately there is no PhD that deals with real world.

[miguelvp]

Unfortunately there is no PhD that deals with real world.

I wouldn't go to that extreme, plenty of PhDs do useful work that we mere humans can't even grasp, they might still have little knowledge in the area but their knowledge is still orders of magnitude higher than our little knowledge.

But I get the hating in something you didn't achieve since I don't have a PhD either.

[ziggyfish]

I wouldn't go to that extreme, plenty of PhDs do useful work that we mere humans can't even grasp, they might still have little knowledge in the area but their knowledge is still orders of magnitude higher than our little knowledge.

But I get the hating in something you didn't achieve since I don't have a PhD either.

It's not what you know, but what you do with what you know.

PhDs know a lot of stuff. A lot more than I will ever know and have contributed to the industry far more than I ever have or will (there should be more of them). However the knowledge and experience is only based on lab experience. Labs are designed to be a controlled environment, with minimal variables. PhDs live in a world completely separate to our world, thus something can work perfectly in a Lab, but fail epicly out in the field (although PhDs are not the only ones who suffer from this problem, its really anyone designing something new). As a programmer, I know this for a fact.

I commend PhD students for taking the time to study every detail about their chosen topic. They truly are the hero of the world. But often what they learn is completely different to how it all works in real world.

[miguelvp]

Since you nor I have a PhD, then it's just pure speculation

I am a programmer as well but I've seen PhDs do pretty cool stuff.

As for the controlled environment lab, well they need to discover things and you don't need distractions from what you are trying to figure out.

Once it's discovered and studied, you pass it along to the Engineers that will try to make something practical.

Say carbon nanotubes were not invented by engineers, not their properties studied by engineers. PhDs created them, studied them and figure out properties that could make them suitable for display or camera sensors among other things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumio_Iijima

Once the science turns into actual practice, then it's up to the engineers to make it practical.

[coppice]

Say carbon nanotubes were not invented by engineers, not their properties studied by engineers. PhDs created them, studied them and figure out properties that could make them suitable for display or camera sensors among other things.

You seem to think PhDs and engineers are something different. There are as many PhDs in the various engineering disciplines as in any other subject.

[miguelvp]

Say carbon nanotubes were not invented by engineers, not their properties studied by engineers. PhDs created them, studied them and figure out properties that could make them suitable for display or camera sensors among other things.

You seem to think PhDs and engineers are something different. There are as many PhDs in the various engineering disciplines as in any other subject.

That's just splitting hairs.

The difference is theoretical

[macgyver0815]

Ho ho... in the Netherlands, one Sola_Road-way now exists for real, pictures here:
https://twitter.com/SolaRoadNL
http://www.solaroad.nl/en/

[Legit-Design]

But no space age Glass hexagons or multi gigawatt leds to shine in the daylight?

[coppice]

http://www.solaroad.nl/en/

I wonder what we are actually looking at in that picture. It looks like naked cells on the left, and cells covered by some kind of surfacing material on the right. The guy with the drill seems to be cutting a shaping surface material, which appears to be flexible. I could be completely wrong, though. Maybe only half the width of that path is actually solar cells.

[EEVblog]

But no space age Glass hexagons or multi gigawatt leds to shine in the daylight?

Very little of the outlandish claims made by Solar Roadways in fact.
They appear to be limiting themselves to street lighting and other ancillary tasks that require power, like street signs and lights.
And of course that's about all you'll ever get out of it, and it'll only work for bike paths. Roads will have the usual multitude of ludicrous problem like Solar Roadways.

[PA0PBZ]

Maybe only half the width of that path is actually solar cells.

Yes, it is only half.

[bitwelder]

Are studded bike tyres used in NL?
It would be interesting to see how they perform on such a 'solar path' and what kind of effect do they have on the cells.

[SeanB]

Note that only half the road module is a solar panel the other half is a regular concrete road surface. Thus likely the solar side is only there with the possibility of you walking on it without damage, not really for cycling on the slippery glass surface.

Frankly they would have been better off simply using the regular cycle path and placing a series of poles along it with a continuous overhead panel strip on it of solar panels sloped so that they shed snow naturally, and aligned with the major sun axis for maximum light gathering. That way you use a regular cell unit, and it only has to withstand wind loading and snow loading, plus it makes a nice rain shelter ( IIRC it does rain a shed load in NL so a covered cycle path would be nice for bikers and pedestrians) and it will still work in a few feet of snow in winter, plus it demarcates the cycle path nicely.

[PA0PBZ]

Note that only half the road module is a solar panel the other half is a regular concrete road surface. Thus likely the solar side is only there with the possibility of you walking on it without damage, not really for cycling on the slippery glass surface.

It's not slippery at all, in fact it looks less slippery than the 'normal' side when it's wet:



And perfectly ok to ride your bike on:



Also, it's not raining that much here 

[coppice]

Note that only half the road module is a solar panel the other half is a regular concrete road surface. Thus likely the solar side is only there with the possibility of you walking on it without damage, not really for cycling on the slippery glass surface.

If the surface above those solar cells is slippery glass it won't be safe for bikes or pedestrians. They must have some kind of texturing to allow grip.

[PA0PBZ]

If the surface above those solar cells is slippery glass it won't be safe for bikes or pedestrians. They must have some kind of texturing to allow grip.

Look at this picture: http://www.solaroad.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ElementbijStrukton.jpg

[SeanB]

Ok it is not slippery, but see that little strip of ground between the cycle path and the walkway? You could have placed poles there 3m high, with regular solar panels on it, which probably cost 10% of the design cost of these embedded panels. No shading from cycles travelling on them, no need to sweep every day to actually get an output from all the amorphous cells ( and they are bloody big single cells as well to try to compensate a little, but still if half is shaded then the whole thing only gives half power) and they will still work in snow ( Nl does get it, Ma V moaned about taking Dibbis walkies in the snow) until you clear it with a broom. I think a mechanical snow plough will destroy those panels in no time.

[SeanB]

If the surface above those solar cells is slippery glass it won't be safe for bikes or pedestrians. They must have some kind of texturing to allow grip.

Look at this picture: http://www.solaroad.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ElementbijStrukton.jpg

Note as well the company is in the business of selling structured concrete products into a saturated market. There is no real reason to replace an existing structure with still 30 years of the original 50 year life left, only a repair market. This is an attempt to make a poor product that they hope will sell lots of product, and which will also have a large aftercare component. You can bet those panels will break in use easily, I can just imagine the first truck that drives on the roadway and goes over the edge shattering a tile, and just imagine if a tyre bursts on a vehicle and it rides over the edge stopping.

To paraphrase a saying I heard years ago on CNN, "every body knows glass breaks", which is true if you place a glass sheet on the ground. That is why those buildings with glass flooring ban high heel shoes on the flooring, point loads.

[PA0PBZ]

Sean, I have no idea why they are doing it or what they expect, but at least this is in place, unlike the Solar Roadways...
And I must say, it does look like something you could drive your car over without destroying it.

The poles idea we already have like I posted earlier in this thread, maybe they thought it was boring and time for something new:

https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.2879535,4.9179232,3a,75y,53.4h,87.48t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s0i0STJDaGQknfEWOq-kyCQ!2e0

Ok, not really poles but embedded in a soundwall, but you get the idea.

[coppice]

I have no idea why they are doing it...

The money?

...or what they expect

The money.

[Bored@Work]

Ok it is not slippery, but see that little strip of ground between the cycle path and the walkway? You could have placed poles there 3m high, with regular solar panels on it, which probably cost 10% of the design cost of these embedded panels.

But the thing is, it is an experiment. If you want to measure how good or bad solar roadways are performing you'd better build a solar roadway, not panels on 3m high poles.

They probably didn't pick that place because you couldn't build anything else there but a solar roadway. They likely picked it for reasons like it was easy to get permission from the authorities, easy access and easy topology to build it, long term weather data available for that place, predictable number of riders in that area, etc. And maybe it is just in front of their building, so they can observe it from their office windows.

[SeanB]

I can predict that they will perform poorly over a year. But the data will be cherry picked for the best spin. Would be interesting to see the comparison from a similar stretch in the same area with panels on either a rooftop or on a series of poles along a road. My money is the panels up higher will win hands down for cost, power output, longevity, reliability, ease of installation and lifetime in all respects.

[jancumps]

I can predict that they will perform poorly over a year. But the data will be cherry picked for the best spin. Would be interesting to see the comparison from a similar stretch in the same area with panels on either a rooftop or on a series of poles along a road. My money is the panels up higher will win hands down for cost, power output, longevity, reliability, ease of installation and lifetime in all respects.

They won't cherry pick the data. This is a genuine experiment. Nothing fluffy about this one in.

[SeanB]

Ok, then this will be a good thing to help those who think solar roads are great, as a negative data point.

About the only good thing for a solar road is it is flat, it is not any more proof against either nature of Yoof wiv an Hattitude, who will damage it. Only those who cannot find a rock, hammer or anything heavy to drop on it will not damage it.