Author Topic: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement  (Read 27004 times)

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Offline vaualbus

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2013, 09:51:06 pm »
I want to do a question a little bit difficult.
How to make voltage controllable variable gain amplifier.
Basicly I'm developing an analog function generator and I've to deal with the amplitude controlling.
 I don't want to use potentiometer but only digital data then converto into a voltage from a  dac.
Best regards, wish to have a replay. Alberto.
 

Offline Ronald1962

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2013, 09:55:05 pm »
Hi Dave,

here are my questions (filtered out of so many...):


1. What is the actual status of the µsupply?

2. Could you please teach us a little more regarding the advanced usage of a scope?
    ( I guess my scope could do much more than I know now...)

3. Can you tell /teach us more in the audio direction?
    (design an test etc.)


Thank you very much in advance!!!

Regards

Ronald
 
 

Offline josko

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2013, 11:04:00 pm »
Hello I have these two questions:
First question
Could you do analysis of novice hardware designs?
I mean I have done decent hardware design in my bachelors thesis - it was digital oscilloscope with beefy FPGA and despite the fact that it is fully working I am aware that there could be many design flaws and I think many people starting in electronics design could learn from mistakes in these designs.

There's link to forum post about my design if you were interested: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/opensource-fpga-dev-kit-with-dsologic-analyzer-module/

Second question:
Hi! Always wanted to ask you one thing(sorry if question is kinda long):
I am student and now I have two possibilities to continue my study - study software programming(I mean in depth) or study electronics(in depth too, microprocessors VLSI and other complex stuff). I'm struggling about it since software programming is easy for me, have no problems with that, but it's boring as shit, I'm tired of doing it. Electronics is harder for me, but it also much more interesting.
But the question really is - how likely it is to get a good job in electronics field?
I mean in software programming there are a lot of positions to work and you can also freelance, but I don't see a lot of companies offering place for VLSI designer or VHDL programmer or anything at all. And needless to say there is no freelance for it.
I just want to do the stuff I like in my life, but I'm scared to be out on the street with no money because of that or end up working as a stupid clerk and hating every second of my workday.

So questions are:
how likely it is to get a good(!) job in electronics field?
and how should find it? I found almost nothing on job offering sites(at least in Europe).

Thanks!
Virtually the same question as cited question above.. Although I have already chosen hardware/embedded systems path.

But I have the same concern.. In Europe (or at least where I study) with software you can find well paid job virtually anywhere especially web and mobile application development where I easily had student part-time offers for maybe 6-10€ per hour or more.

Now that I have made my way to hardware through my bachelors thesis (digital oscilloscope) I have applied for part time in big semiconductor company (I don't want to specify - piss that it's ONSemi), in particulary ASIC development (standard cells) but I already see it's paid significantly less (3-4€ per hour for student part timer).

After long interviews that covered digital and analog hardare principles I got to say that I am bit disappointed - it is much less development than I have expected.. at least what concerns standart cells it is over processed corporate work.
I mean what I do is that I get some specifications in some format and I generate HDL views with some Perl scripts, no development what so ever, nothing just dull process over and over and even if I develop something it is more regarded to scripts than actual hardware. I don't know if that's just for part timers.. Or it is regular in corporate design? I have say that my thesis was many times more interesting and really hardware concerned.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 11:37:37 am by josko »
 

Offline BobC

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2013, 04:55:47 am »
Got a fun one for you Dave!  It's more of a problem than a question, but it involves everything: Mechanical, electro-mechanical, electro-chemical, electronic, and software, all in a single real-world problem.

At work we built a board to drive brushed DC gearmotors to raise and lower a load.  We fed the PWM output of an ATmega328P (in "Phase Correct" PWM mode, of course) through some glue logic to a MOSFET H-bridge driver chip and then on to the MOSFET H-bridge and the motor.  To keep things simple, the main 28V supply provides power not only to the H-bridge and motor, but also to the electronics (at +5V and 3.3V) via an on-board buck switcher module (+5V out) and a 3.3V linear regulator.  The system had been operating reliably for weeks.

I wanted to show how a DC motor is self-braking when the input is shorted.  So for an initial demo I used a battery and a SPDT switch, which when thrown would remove one side of the the battery and short the motor.  It worked like a charm: The load descended extremely slowly.

For the next demo, I wanted to show that the H-Bridge would perform a similar function, that when the H-Bridge and all the other electronics was turned off while the motor was lowering a load at full speed, the MOSFET body diodes would become forward-biased, shorting the motor like the switch did and again causing the large braking effect.  I have done similar demos several times over the years, always with ooohs and ahhs as the inherent safety of the system was demonstrated.

So while the motor was lowering a load at full-speed (which was still fairly slow due to the gearmotor's 60:1 transmission ratio and a 2:1 pulley ratio), I removed power from the system.  And much to my trouser-soiling surprise, the motor RPMs shot up and the load came crashing down!

Now, this wouldn't be so bad if I had been using a toy motor at my desk.  No, I was using a powerful gearmotor that itself weighed 15 kg, hooked up to a 350 kg load, powered by a pair of 12V AGM marine batteries in series, just as I had with the SPDT switch demo.  The thud truly made the earth move.

Fortunately, nothing was damaged: Not the board, not the gearmotor, not the load, and not the concrete slab the load landed on.

So what happened?  Why didn't my load descend slowly, like it did with the switch?  What can be done to make it work how I expected it to?

I think I've figured out the basics of what went on, but I'm afraid to test it (that last thud raised more than eyebrows).  I'd really like to see you sleuth your way through the problem and solution before I try anything.  All the above happened just last week, and I'm still a bit shaken by it.  Literally.


Thanks,

-BobC


“It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.” - Ashleigh Brilliant
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 05:04:15 am by BobC »
 

Offline boccafriend

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2013, 06:38:27 am »
Hello,
What is the best electronics toy/learning kit for an 8year old?
I also had a Tandy 50-in-1 kit so many years ago....is this still the way to go?

Thanks.
 

Offline BobC

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2013, 08:38:18 pm »
Here are some of the parts I think I've figured out regarding the problem posed in my prior post about the Big Thud:

The ATmega PWM in "Phase Correct" PWM mode outputs clean DC at PWM values of 0 and 255, meaning at 0 the H-bridge is off, and at 255 it is in full-on conduction (well, two of its legs are).

We use a GPIO pin to set the motor direction at the MOSFET driver chip, giving us the equivalent PWM range of -255 to +255, where zero in each direction has the H-bridge in the same state (no legs are on).

One important thing I forgot to mention in the original post is that our gearmotors have built-in friction brakes that are normally engaged, and need DC applied to release them and permit the motor to rotate.  The DC comes from a second PWM directly driving a MOSFET.  So removing external power SHOULD have engaged the friction brakes!

Clearly, removing external power did NOT remove power from the system.  And the only other power source is the now motor with a 350 kg load attached.  We expect a motor to become a generator under these circumstances.

But how did this power get to the brakes? 

And why/how was the polarity correct?  Why didn't the system get fried by reverse voltage from the motor?

There is only one possible answer: The H-bridge served as a bridge rectifier, routing power to the supply bus instead of cleanly shorting the motor.

When external power was removed, the motor became a generator and immediately started powering the system.  And because the logic power supplies took power from the same bus as the H-bridge motor power, those supplies never lost their input power, and the processor never stopped running.  Which means it's state of driving downward is still active, and prevented power being removed from the friction brakes!

So, current was still flowing through the motor: Shouldn't this have slowed the descent?  Well, it probably did, a little, but not obviously enough to matter.

OK then, if there wasn't enough current for significant dynamic motor braking, why didn't the voltage climb high enough to damage any circuitry?

There are two key pieces of data I don't (yet) have:  1) What is the current through the motor when its input is shorted with a 350 kg load applied?  2) What is the voltage on the open motor output with a 350 kg load applied?  In other heavy-load systems, I've seen shorted motor currents of several hundred amps (but zero volts), and open circuit voltages of hundreds of volts (but zero amps).

Our system was somewhere between these two extremes.

The first element to fry would/should have been the buck switcher module.  While we were using it with an input of 28V, it was rated up to 42V, and would probably survive 50V or higher for the few seconds it took for the load to fall to the floor.

Releasing the friction brakes takes about 3 amps at 12V, and the PWM to the MOSFET was set for a 43% duty cycle, for an average current draw of 1.3 amps at 28V.  The logic supplies pull under 100ma from the 28V bus, and so aren't as important a load as the friction brakes.

Bottom line, TWO things had to go wrong for the load to crash to the floor:  The motor wasn't shorted, and power wasn't removed from the friction brakes.  If either of these had happened, the load would not have come crashing down.

What did we do wrong? 

First, there were no diodes present to block reverse current from the motor to the 28V bus.  These diodes would go between the 28V supply and the H-bridge.  Oh yes, they were present in the initial design, but we INTENTIONALLY removed them when someone noticed we could recover power from the system by doing regenerative braking during descent.  And that effect was in full evidence when going down at full speed: The current on the 28V supply bus was indeed reversed, and we were supplying current back to the supply (which had other large loads).  But the regenerative braking didn't permit nearly as much current to flow as would a true shorting of the motor leads.

Second, why didn't the H-bridge short the motor?  Remember, two of the legs were in full conduction during the descent, and that didn't change when the supply was disconnected (because the electronics driving it never had power removed).  When a MOSFET is on, the body diode essentially "goes away" because its forward voltage drop is never reached, so it can't be driven into conduction.  The only available current path was to the supply bus, not shorting the motor.

What's the fix?  Well, what if we never remove external power?  While that sounds impractical, it turns out that adding an internal pair of AGM batteries (only slightly larger than motorcycle batteries) can provide enough power for our system under all required operational scenarios.  The external 28V bus is attached to a heavy-duty battery charger instead of directly to the system.  Instead of a peak current draw of 60A and a reverse current of 10A, the external supply now sees a load current that can't exceed the charger's draw limit of 7A.

But isn't that a kluge?  Yup, it sure is, but it does have other benefits (such as independent operation).  What's the REAL fix?

One key flaw is the ability of the motor (in generator mode) to power the friction brakes.  If the friction brakes had engaged, everything would have come to a safe and immediate halt.  The friction brakes would engage if power to its MOSFET were removed, or the MOSFET itself were turned off.  Which means a related flaw is the motor being able to power the electronics.

If we gave up regenerative braking, the solution would be to insert the blocking diodes mentioned earlier.  But now that we are using internal batteries for primary power, regenerative braking allows us to meet our operational requirements using smaller batteries than we would need otherwise.

Are we in a "Catch 22"?  We haven't yet found a simple or elegant way to ensure the motor can't power the brakes or electronics and still keep regenerative braking.  There are lots of complex approaches that use reverse current sensors and relays, but they add complexity and cost (more than the batteries and charger did), and may reduce overall reliability (new failure modes).

What do you think the right approach should be?

(Yes, I've wandered a bit from the intent of this thread.  But it's still a question, so *technically* it can still go in this thread.  Please don't banish me!)
 

Offline Dave Pye

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2013, 03:49:08 pm »
Hi Dave,

looking through the posts, the general theme seems to be the thirst for knowledge. How can I learn? What's the best way? Etc. Etc..
So before I ask my question let me give you a brief background about me (But I'm just one of many)

Just like you, I caught the electronics bug when I was young. I bought magazines, built gadgets and generally played with things. But I never really understood what was going on.
I gave up when I was about 18 years old, out of frustration more than anything else. Then one day (just this year), I came across this Aussie bloke whilst browsing the internet. His name was Colin Mitchell (Remember him?). Anyway, just for old times sake I thought I'd take a look at what he had to say.

It was an eureka moment, for the very first time I understood how a transistor worked. That was it, I was off the blocks and running, the electronics bug was back - And no stopping it this time. That was 37 years after I had gave up on the subject.

So my question is:-

Why don't you do more tutorials? I love them. Can't get enough.

Dare to learn
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2013, 08:37:13 pm »
Is there a simple way to calculate the value of a NTC thermistor used to reduce inrush current in power supplies? 
Not very simple, see page 6 to 9 :
http://dkc1.digikey.com/us/en/tod/Ametherm/NTC/NTC.html
 

Offline iwasz

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #58 on: November 18, 2013, 10:24:25 am »
Hi

  Would you consider making some videos about High-speed digital (PCB) design and signal integrity? This seems to be some mystical topic and a very few videos on YT are available. You know topics like ringing, reflections, crosstalk, mutual capacitance, mutual impedance and so on. Regs!
 

Offline pa7

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Re: EEVblog Q&A #1 Announcement
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2013, 09:51:19 am »
Hi, Dave! I enjoyed all the videos on th uSupply and I learned a lot form all of them, but what happend with that project? What is it's current status? Is there going to be a continuation on it? Thank you for what you are doing! Helps me learn a lot.
 


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