EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review

[Prema]

There is only the Gigadevice Logo on them and this:

AH1315 - 25B16BSIG - E4T490
AH1316 - 25B32BSIG - E51367

[radioman]

25B16BSIG=25C16, 25B32BSIG=25C32? put the device in the soic8 adapter and do a 25 autoselect an see if is autodetected.

[Electro Fan]

Not sure if any noticed this (or has any interest), but one of the sellers of the TL866 offers a black ziff socket as an option vs. the very popular green socket (he also sells the green socket version):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-MiniPro-TL866A-Programmer-EEPROM-SPI-FLASH-AVR-GAL-PIC-with-ICSP-Function-/321085707041?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac2331321#ht_9190wt_1071
- the seller has lots of packages depending on which/how many adapter sockets you want

In corresponding with the seller he has been very responsive.  He says that the black socket is more robust than the green socket.  He thinks it might not matter for occassional users but for users that are doing lots of diagnostics/repairs, etc. he believes the black socket will hold up better.  I think he also believes it will make better contact with the chip pins; it's also supposed to be easier to remove/replace if needed.

Also, related to the TL866 it looks like there are users who would like to do inline serial programming; for inline serial progamming it would seem that it might be easier and not all that much more expensive to just start with the TL866A version than the TL866CS version.

Just a couple tidbits.  Sorry if some of this is redundant with previous posts.

[bilko]

Not sure if any noticed this (or has any interest), but one of the sellers of the TL866 offers a black ziff socket as an option vs. the very popular green socket (he also sells the green socket version):

Just to add, if you buy the regular green socket version there is nothing stopping you from buying a genuine, quality 3M or Aries Zif socket and using this in the green socket, no soldering required.

[Electro Fan]

Not sure if any noticed this (or has any interest), but one of the sellers of the TL866 offers a black ziff socket as an option vs. the very popular green socket (he also sells the green socket version):

Just to add, if you buy the regular green socket version there is nothing stopping you from buying a genuine, quality 3M or Aries Zif socket and using this in the green socket, no soldering required.

I don't have any vested interested in this and I'm still figuring out what's what but it was my impression that the green socket is a 3M socket (maybe there are different versions made by 3M?) and that it is soldered in place.  I'm pretty sure the seller says the black socket can be removed without soldering.

[MrAureliusR]

The green socket says 3M on it but I'd bet a thousand dollars it's an imitation.  It seems to be relatively strong though, I've inserted and removed chips well over a hundred times now with no issues whatsoever.

[JTR]

And the black "aries" Zif sockets require so much physical force to open and close it tends to get tiresome rather quickly and then there is the mechanical force that is transferred through the PCB.  Very hard to open and close these with just one hand.

The 3M clones (genuine 3M parts cost > $10) are just much nicer to work with and will hold up for a long time as long as some care is used in inserting the chips correctly and they are soldered with the zif socket in the open position. Very important!

[Prema]

25B16BSIG=25C16, 25B32BSIG=25C32? put the device in the soic8 adapter and do a 25 autoselect an see if is autodetected.

THX! They where compatible with GD25Q16 / GD25Q32.

[casinada]

Just have to be careful and make sure that the programmer is not counterfeit. According to the site there is no counterfeit programmer yet, however; there are some adapters that are counterfeit already.
http://www.autoelectric.cn/minipro/TSOP48_identification.htm
I ordered an 866A from e**y and I suppose to get it tomorrow. My EMP-20 is obsolete and works for old parts but the original company doesn't exist anymore and to use I have to have an old Win XP box with a parallel port.

[elcomtel]

On the subject of ZIF sockets.

Personally I own a Advantech Labtool-48 universal programmer (LPT interface) that I purchased 10 years ago. Support was dropped in 2002 so no new devices (PIC, AVR, large SPI EEPROMs) have been added to the Labtool-48. After reading this TL866 forum I decided to order the TL866A to make up for where the Labtool-48 left off. I prefer the Labtool-48 over the TL866A in the first instance,  but if my Labtool-48 doesn't support a post 2002 device then the TL866A will hopefully provide a degree of redundancy.

I couldn't help but notice all the problems people were having with the 40 pin ZIF socket supplied with the TL866. I'm not too fond of the solutions that have been suggested to improve the behaviors of the supplied ZIF socket in particular the use of 'hot melt glue' and the likes. I discovered that element14 sells original 40 pin 3M ZIF sockets for $48AUD ($46USD) which is what the whole TL866A programmer is worth.

After some research on eBay I came across a very reasonable alternative at $13 USD for 2 pcs.

Please see:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251211812118
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280738795538

The attached photos better illustrate the alternative replacement.

The ZIF socket lever is clearly well constructed (all metal construction) and the outside ZIF socket body appears to be one solid piece of plastic. I will be ordering these ZIF sockets on eBay as I can clearly see there are issues with the supplied TL866. As yet I cannot comment on the quality of the eBay source of ZIF socket that I propose, but I think that it is a possible good choice.

I'll try and get back to this forum in the following weeks as my order makes its long journey on the slow boat from China.

[bingo600]

I just bought an eprom eraser here www.ebay.com/itm/320934383467

And tested it with my programmer ....
The Eraser works excellent ......


I found some (10+) TMS2516/32/64 in the drawer , that apparently aren't supported 

From the DS i can see two problems

1: VPP  25v   (the 866 supports 21v)

2: Programming pulse duration  45..55 mS  (the 866 supports max 1000uS)

Does anyone think that they can be programmed with 21v ?
If not , it doesn't make much sense to ask for a programming pulse extension

/Bingo

[PA0PBZ]

I found some (10+) TMS2516/32/64 in the drawer , that apparently aren't supported 

These things are like 30 years old...

[Kjelt]

I wouldn,t recommend using the 25xx series for a new design LOL  serious though rather use the 27xx series because those can be found everywhere and programmed, the 25xx series have also another different pinlayout.
Even in old pinnball machines the 25xx gets replaced by an 27xx.
If you must program these build your own conversion board wit 27xx to 25xx pin layout and make a voltagedetector that switches on if Vpp> 12V and use lab PSU for 25V to switch.
Then program them numerous times till code is verified then double it for intance in your example thirty times. Other alternative is to build your own programmer.

[bingo600]

I found some (10+) TMS2516/32/64 in the drawer , that apparently aren't supported 

These things are like 30 years old...

Well i'm vintage too 

I got them from a "Pollin misc. chip bag" , but might just drop them.
They seem not worth wasting drawer space on.

Thnx guyzz

/Bingo

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

First time caller long time listener. I thank you all for the great info on the TL866, especially for the "upgrade" which went off without a hitch. My only problem now is the software for the thing. I can save a project and it will ask for attributes. I assume this is able to accept any info as well. Well I put in the checksum & chip etc. When I reload the project, the chip is not selected automatically, nor is the info in the attributes/description. I have to load the chip after the popup warning and then reload the bin or hex file. All I see in the  description is the mpj filename and path. No descriptive note that I was asked to put in there when I first saved the file. What a piece of work. Is anyone else able to tell me if this is the way it is working for them as well or is it just me. thanks.

[SeanB]

25xx series also needs a substrate bias of -21V, if not there and allowed to float to a positive voltage near Vcc they tend to complain by glowing red hot ( if the 5V rail can support the current) and then blowing the top off. I have seen a few do that, though most just did not work.

[amyk]

25xx series also needs a substrate bias of -21V, if not there and allowed to float to a positive voltage near Vcc they tend to complain by glowing red hot ( if the 5V rail can support the current) and then blowing the top off. I have seen a few do that, though most just did not work.

TMS25xx are single-supply +5V, perhaps you were thinking of even earlier EPROMs?

[MrAureliusR]

I couldn't help but notice all the problems people were having with the 40 pin ZIF socket supplied with the TL866.

The ZIF socket lever is clearly well constructed (all metal construction) and the outside ZIF socket body appears to be one solid piece of plastic. I will be ordering these ZIF sockets on eBay as I can clearly see there are issues with the supplied TL866.

What, you mean the ONE GUY on this thread who was having trouble and then posted a simple fix? And what about all of us who then said "Hey, actually the ZIF sockets are quite nice. They are actually smoother and easier to work with than the genuine 3M ones."

Typed using Hacker's Keyboard for Android

[Kjelt]

My TL866 arrived today, no nice box around it just wrapped in bubble plastick. The sticker on the back is an exact copy of the one Dave showed in his video, so is there only one SN  or just one sticker     Opened it up, looks the same as Dave got but different name on the PCB, there is now XG 2013 Design on the pcb's. So are these all copies from eachother or is there really only one manufacturer? Anyway tested it with some old eproms and eeproms and it seems to work.  Excellent value for the money.

[Sjaak]

Anything know on the internal workings of the software? It would be cool to add chips yourself. I've got a couple of chips that are not direct supported but could be with a few tweaks.

Otherwise i'm very happy with the programer

[joh]

I have just noted that my TL866 displays the extended fuse setting on my ATMEGA328P in a strange manner. TL866 show value FD while avrdude shows 05 which is more typical.

[Kjelt]

I have just noted that my TL866 displays the extended fuse setting on my ATMEGA328P in a strange manner. TL866 show value FD while avrdude shows 05 which is more typical.

I am not familiar with the ATMEGA328P but looking in the datasheet under the extended fuse byte it states clearly that only the last three bits are programmable (and these match in both cases) and the other 5 bits are not programmable and are default '1' .
So it looks to me that the TL866 has the right value and the avrdude not.

[joh]

Many thanks for that, sorry I didn't do my research properly.

[jinzo]

I'm wondering if anyone has tried programming ST M35080 chips? They have the first few bits protected/only allow incremental writing (incremental registers) but I would need to completely reprogram it. But it looks like it doesen't know how to do that unfortunately :/ Or I'm doing something wrong.
Also there seems to be lack of software updates/chips. Was anyone in contact with that programmer whose mail is listed here somewhere? 

[bilko]

When I insert an unknown Eprom into the programmer, and select read, I get the correct device ID code but how do I then select the correct chip type to program ?
Doesn't the software read the code and offer the correct chip ?
If not why not, the information is in the software..