Any chance Dave, or somebody else with DS2000 could investigate that, bit more, Is 500uV real thing or just marketing number... without real backup.
I'm interested in that low noise thing of DS2000 series, and have to say that I'm left with bit of disappointment, from Dave "playing with"....
Noise at 500uV being 1 division is hardly good achievement, just by simply comparing to that what DS1052e is doing in that regard, I was clearly expecting much better noise figures.
2) What no Zoom at all? Am I missing something here? I can Zoom with my cheap scope I would expect this one to do that easily. It was unclear to me if this feature worked before the upgrade or not but I would imagine that it just does not have this feature because Rigol would be asses to fix the XY and at the same time cripple the much more used Zoom Feature.
1) What!! No upgrade for the BW after purchase I though that was one of the main upgrades! I was hoping that one day I could buy the 70 MHz version and save up later for the 200 MHZ upgrade but now all the 70 MHz owners are stuck This is the number one turn off for me.
2) What no Zoom at all? Am I missing something here? I can Zoom with my cheap scope I would expect this one to do that easily. It was unclear to me if this feature worked before the upgrade or not but I would imagine that it just does not have this feature because Rigol would be asses to fix the XY and at the same time cripple the much more used Zoom Feature.
The waveform capture thing looks like a cheap copy of Agilent's Segmented Memory feature, granted it's free (vs buying the SEGMEM license). With SEGMEM you choose how many segments you want and depending on how much sample memory each segment gets the scope drops the sample rate. This IMO is better as you can decide for yourself the tradeoff between sample rate and segment count.
Does the Rigol not allow you to select the number of segments? If not this is a major limitation - being able to trade off sample length against number of samples is a very important facility for segmented memory acquisition.
3) The whole 50,000 waveform capture thing now seems to me to be more of a gimmick than a real feature.
Does the Rigol not allow you to select the number of segments? If not this is a major limitation - being able to trade off sample length against number of samples is a very important facility for segmented memory acquisition...No, I don't think you can select it on the Rigol, as the sample memory depth is automatically controlled based on timebase like on any scope.
When Dave was talking about the trial features and their timelimit was anyone else thinking.. Hm.. i wonder, if i read out the eeprom/flash ICs before i turned it on for the first time, could i then reprogram it every month to get the features back
There is a bug in FW 00.00.01.00.02 and earlier (similar to DS4000 units) causing rewritting some areas in memory (trial options for example) when doing Self-Cal, saving setups/ref signal, AND also doing firmware update from the mormal operation.
This bug has been fixed in FW 00.00.01.00.05, so I suggest anyone with this firmware to update to latest version. BUT, it is very IMPORTANT to do this update during boot process, not from the normal operation from the menu. First, iyou have to nsert USB stick with the firmware file , then power-on the unit and pres shortly HELP button. The SINGLE led will light and update process will start shortly (CH1 LED is flashing), after it's done, all LEDs light. Power-off, remove USB and power-on.
Hints: To get full FW version go to trigger menu and set Edge, then press F7-F6-F7-Utility button combination. Check additional info under Utility > System > System Info. To escape from this "special" mode, do again F7-F6-F7-Utility under trigger menu.
Rigol firmwares starting with 01.xx.. (like in Dave's video 01.00.01.09.00) are testing firmwares.
3) The whole 50,000 waveform capture thing now seems to me to be more of a gimmick than a real feature.
I don't think you're understanding waveform update rates. Here are two good explanations of it:
cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-7885EN.pdf
www2.rohde-schwarz.com/file/1ER02_1e.pdf
To give you a concrete example of the difference between the Owon and Rigol's rates:
Scope’s blind-time percentage
= 100 x [(1/U) – W]/(1/U)
= 100 x (1 – UW)
where
U = Scope’s measured update rate
and
W = Display acquisition window = Timebase setting x number of divisions (which is 20 on the Owon and 15 on the Rigol).
For example, at a 100ns/div timebase setting:
The 30 wfrm/s update rate of the Owon means a blind-time of 99.994% - in other words, it's only showing .006% of the real-time waveform.
Assuming the Rigol does 50,000 wfrm/s at this timebase setting, the blind-time is 92.5% - i.e., it's showing 7.5% of the real-time waveform.
What does this mean in terms of glitch hunting? According to the formula, then the average time for catching a repeating signal fault (let's say 10 glitches per second at 100ns/div) with a probability of 99.9%:
Owon: ~3 hours and 12 minutes.
Rigol: 9.2 seconds
1) What!! No upgrade for the BW after purchase I though that was one of the main upgrades! I was hoping that one day I could buy the 70 MHz version and save up later for the 200 MHZ upgrade but now all the 70 MHz owners are stuck This is the number one turn off for me.
Yes, very strange, and quite annoying.Quote
Thanks for the Update Dave. Please let us know what you find out.
2) What no Zoom at all? Am I missing something here? I can Zoom with my cheap scope I would expect this one to do that easily. It was unclear to me if this feature worked before the upgrade or not but I would imagine that it just does not have this feature because Rigol would be asses to fix the XY and at the same time cripple the much more used Zoom Feature.
John South at Emona told me he's pretty sure that zoom works as it's supposed to, and there is possibly something wrong with my unit. He will confirm this when back from holiday. Can anyone else with a DS2000 confirm?
He also said there is something wrong with my dim LED's as well.
Dave.
BTW I had read that Agilent Document before and it really came off to me as a questionable in the sense that to me as a novice in the world of DSO it seems to only addresses one part of the equation and by that I mean doesn’t it also dependent on how well your scope triggers. It would seem to me that your scope could be capturing 10M/WFS but if it's trigger does not go off during the glitch then that’s all for naught.
My second comment on all of this comes from 15 years of doing repair work. For me weird Glitches were very rare in the repair world and when I did come across it; most of the time I could just use my old Analog scope and Tap or twist the board and bingo the glitch would appear or disappear.
Marmad I have noticed that you really seem to be in love with this feature, which I think is still a bit of a over sell by Agilent to try and make their consumer grade scopes look better than everyone else’s. Personally I think it's just because so many new DSO makers are now in the market place and this has now become a big push for them because they dominate that area, but hey I am no expert so it's just my opinion.
BTW I had read that Agilent Document before and it really came off to me as a questionable in the sense that to me as a novice in the world of DSO it seems to only addresses one part of the equation and by that I mean doesn’t it also dependent on how well your scope triggers. It would seem to me that your scope could be capturing 10M/WFS but if it's trigger does not go off during the glitch then that’s all for naught. Please let me know if I am wrong but to me that seems logical.
For me weird Glitches were very rare in the repair world and when I did come across it...
Of course, if you do know how to trigger from the glitch, then the update rate is essentially irrelevant.
Again, this is only true if the scope is stopped, waiting to trigger from the glitch.
Edit: BTW, Dave, you mentioned in your vid that the Rigol 1000 series captures around 700-800 wfrm/s. In fact, the E series is somewhere in the 50-200 wfrm/s range, while the CA series is up to 2000 wfrm/s (hence the massive price difference).
That's how you usually capture things you are looking for!
I thought I measured it around the 700 mark at one point, but my memory could be wrong.
If you want to try to calculate actual wfrms/s by testing the probability of capturing a random glitch, you have to run many tests - not just a few