EEVblog #170 - Agilent FAIL!

[FreeThinker]

The way you are defending Agilent would make you think they had given you a free meter or somthing

I was prepared even for an such of reply too ..        

This specific U1272A it will be the first one , that will enter in the Greek borders,
not even the main distributor of Agilent in Greece does not have actually touch one yet.

Their " Mix up " had cause almost damage to me, I am in danger to loose my face.
I have write to all of my friends about this subject. In the Greek forum ( about electronics) that I am member too.
There is 2500 views in the  "Reads counter" and five pages with messages with congrats about me,
and still , I have to write excuses for almost 30 days , about what happened with it.

You are correct when you implying that I am in love with Agilent ,
but only if you are saying it as joke, and laugh about it , as you did ..  


 

 

  

[Kiriakos-GR]

You don't even have one in your possession to defend for. Saturation from posting his real experience.  I post twice and it still doesn't seems to register need i say more.

Thanks for replying , it looks that there is some sort of language barrier problem,
because I do not understand you point's , and I got no answers too. 

Have a nice day.

 
 

[saturation]

Hello, alm long time no chat.  There is a video of it somewhere I posted, just search for it.

I concur with your diagnosis, but I think there are other factors too.  EMI and RF may be culprits too as shielded cables or makeshift grounded guards do help. 

For a portable meter, a simple solution uses the minmaxave mode, as the average is consistent over time [being the DC component], and the longer its allowed to read the average, the more it smoothens spurious input.

As for the calibration issue, no one else reported it among posts on the net, but other than Dave's spot check I haven't seen other reviews doing range checks against the spec sheet.  The other ranges are in spec, so its more likely the meter was cal'd in error rather than drifted off spec.  Since the meter is warranted, its simple to return the meter. 

Lessons are:

A cal certificate is no guarantee calibrations persist to the next scheduled cal date or that its actually done properly.  Flukes 80s don't ship with such certificates, but their reputation for lifelong accuracy is known.

Its good practice to performance test new gear to insure it lives up to specs; if users just require 0.1 - 1% accuracy or had no other DMM to compare it too, that cal error would go unnoticed.

From the 1272a service manual, see png.

I have that 1252a too from grainger.com and its faultness, except for some peculiarities in its megaohm resistance reading; its too sensitive and picks up quite a bit of EMI or static, could use an optional filter section.   To confirm its accuracy I just did to it what I did to the 1272a against my other meters.

I've seen this in other meters. I've assumed this is due to the very low current at high resistances (because of the limited compliance of the internal current source in the DMM). Induced current will influence these measurements, not sure how filtering is going to help, apart from the standard CMRR/NMRR stuff. Guarding the connections should help, but is somewhat impractical in a hand held meter. Maybe the other meters that are less sensitive use a higher test current/compliance or have better CMRR/NMRR?

If a meter calibrated by Agilent is found out of spec within the calibration interval, something is either wrong with the stability of the meter, or there's a serious issue with their calibration equipment/procedure.

[saturation]

So far the posts on this thread have been about the negative aspects of this DMM, so just to balance things out here are the positive compared against the Fluke 87V, showing it has promise once the mentioned bugs are worked out:

All AC ranges, V or A, are at least 2x more accurate
In DC & ohms ranges, its at least equal
It has higher frequency counter limits
The datalogging and serial connection are flawless in lab conditions
It reads faster
Its physically slightly lighter, and the material makes it easy to grip
Orange is easily more visible to see in most any conditions, more than yellow
dual display is far more informative than switching between readings, as in Flukes way
Its read AC+DC
the basic IP rating is higher but only real world field use can tell how it survives expsoure
From 0F, to 100F ambient temps without drifting out of spec
Work in 100% RH, its above spec, rated only to 80% RH
It can be field calibrated, if you know how, the Fluke 87V cannot
AAA powered, not 9V battery

I have more than 1 unit under test, so the performances, both good and bad, are not one-offs or "flukes"     

[Kiriakos-GR]

It can be field calibrated, if you know how

Lets hope that you did the calibration at the specific lab with adjusted room temperature,
locked at 23 °C ± 1 °C ..  as stated in the document that you have in your hands ,
at the Calibration Procedures section.

If not , you had calibrated thin air .
Every one is capable to push buttons.   

[Kuolas]

It can be field calibrated, if you know how

Lets hope that you did the calibration at the specific lab with adjusted room temperature,
locked at 23 °C ± 1 °C ..  as stated in the document that you have in your hands ,
at the Calibration Procedures section.

If not , you had calibrated thin air .
Every one is capable to push buttons.    

My mother language it's not English, but your comments tends to be a little bit aggressive. Chill out! I like what saturation have done.

[RANT]
Shame that a "Big Company" like Agilent is being caught with it's pants down!

I still trust more on Fluke than Agilent. More even, on DMM market there is no brand like Fluke, and on the Osc. market LeCroy and Tektronix, both have strong brands, even stronger than Agilent.

One tends to question why Agilent it's so expensive when their brand has fallen on disgrace... it no longer HP.

Agilent needs to wake up and rebuild it's brand, it's easy, good products, superb precision, no standalone equipment with Windows Embedded, good design and above all... long time reliability. I love their documentation, they just needs better products to accompanied them.
[/RANT]

[Kiriakos-GR]

My mother language it's not English, but your comments tends to be a little bit aggressive. Chill out! I like what saturation have done.

I will not called my self as aggressive , but I am feeling a bit jumpy , because your hero pretends the tiger who had grab Agilent from the balls.
And it does not matter what you trust more like  A vs B brand , its a matter or ethics.
I do not try to control the others people opinion , but I will not stop expressing my own.
Every one is responsible for him self , when he press the Post button. 

[RANT]
Shame that a "Big Company" like Agilent is being caught with it's pants down!

There you are, acting as predicted .
But where is your own proofs ?
Your rant looks more like flaming to me.

I still trust more on Fluke than Agilent. More even, on DMM market there is no brand like Fluke, and on the Osc. market LeCroy and Tektronix, both have strong brands, even stronger than Agilent.

Nothing to say here ..

One tends to question why Agilent it's so expensive when their brand has fallen on disgrace... it no longer HP.

Take a big breath and look who is the partner - supplier of parts that Agilent use in their DMM .
http://www.hmrohm.co.kr/html/aboutus.asp
Does the word Vishay DALE rings a bell to you ?
 

Agilent needs to wake up and rebuild it's brand, it's easy, good products, superb precision, no standalone equipment with Windows Embedded, good design and above all... long time reliability. I love their documentation, they just needs better products to accompanied them.
[/RANT]

Do you see any member among us to called as Agilent ?
Send them one email with your RANT .
That's a more wiser way to pass your message than writing in forums,
or else your RANT looks like an anonymous prank .

I am here to learn and educate my self , or aid the one who needs help .
Or aid the brand who needs help .
I need better and reliable tools , and I want to help , any one who bust his ass to build them.
Because at the end, he works for me ... 

This is my RANT to any one who thinks like you.
 

[caspencer]

So what's the take-away from all this for someone looking for a new meter?

Should the U1272A (or the U1271A) even be considered at this point? Or "go for it" but know that it may need to be returned to the distributor/manufacturer if said issues are encountered?

Any reports of people *not* having the range-switch "bezerk-ness" issue?

[PetrosA]

I didn't notice the range switch berzerkness until I started fidgeting with it. In normal use I'm switching directly from OFF to whatever range I need, probably fast enough that signals aren't getting mixed up. The only time I noticed the crazy alarms (see my other thread with video) at work was yesterday when I was checking current on a group of LEDs and must have overswitched to uA and back to A before starting.

[Kiriakos-GR]

So what's the take-away from all this

I can speak only for my self.
My own take -away is that there is some software related bugs.
The findings is so fresh , that every one here scratches his head head about them.
And if I was aware , that the firmware update process on this thing ,
is possible to happen by just using the USB-IRDA modem, and some sort of updating software that works in windows
( like flashing the Bios in your motherboard),  I would feel safe and relaxed.

PetrosA nicely described the root of the problem , by saying  : signals aren't getting mixed  ( by properly using the range switch).
My own technical instinct as troubleshooter , was telling me same thing from the start ,
And if you check this thread and my messages ,
I had point out repeatedly that the proper use of the range switch, can minimize software related glitches , if there is any.   

Lets hope that the boys in Agilent, could deal with the software problems equally fast ,
as the people from ASUS does , about Bios releases for their motherboards.

I feel bad by watching one so perfect engineering ( parts related ) ,
to loosing face due software bugs.

Time will tell , if our predictions haves any real base , but it is very soon for any reliable answers in your questions.

Stay close to this forum, and you will be from the first ones , who will know how it goes. 

[Kuolas]

Do you see any member among us to called as Agilent ?
Send them one email with your RANT .
That's a more wiser way to pass your message than writing in forums,
or else your RANT looks like an anonymous prank .

I am here to learn and educate my self , or aid the one who needs help .
Or aid the brand who needs help .
I need better and reliable tools , and I want to help , any one who bust his ass to build them.
Because at the end, he works for me ...  

This is my RANT to any one who thinks like you.

A rant is a rant... purely personal opinion, take it or leave it. As you said it has no value. But I want to express my self, and find other people opinions.

I miss the old days when documentation, service manuals and schematics were the norm... I don't defend enterprises that thinks it's customers are potential competitors.

[Kiriakos-GR]

For everything it worth's, I will just say that I do respect your opinion.
And currently I have a ton of my own problems to deal with.

Possibly I got over excited by this Agilent story , and acted mostly from impulse.

Take care..  I need you as friend and tomorrow.

[Kuolas]

It's ok, I know you like Agilent.  

They will fix this, since it's their name that we are talking about.

My personal rant it's because I miss the old HP, the HP that died when Lew Platt toked it under it's tenure (and for the sake of it, Carly Fiorina too).