EEVblog 1534 - Solar Freakin' RAILways!

[EEVblog]

2023 brings us Solar Freakin' RAILways! from Swiss start-up Sun-Ways
A dumber idea than Solar Roadways?
https://www.sun-ways.ch/

[Black Phoenix]

Not related but related - see if one of this days I take a picture of a PV test system that is floating on a River in Hong Kong, in the Shatin district.

It is a small array of 4 or 6 panels floating in the river. My cousin wife's told me it was a good idea, I just replied that look at the panels? They are full of crud and dirt.

EDIT: no need for a photo, here's the link https://www.dsd.gov.hk/EN/What_s_New/What_s_New/news30833.html

This is photos of the instalation day or close to it.

Now they look way worse than this.

[EEVblog]

[EEVblog]

[Black Phoenix]

Yes Dave, I know, but think with me. You are doing a test of a system right? So for you to test is something is viable you will try to keep the system in test in the best condition possible right, in a way to have a fully accurate info from what it has been logged right?

I can garantee you, 100% that those panels would not se a clean until the end of the test drive and the project will be canceled soon after citing low efficiency and production levels. That's how Hong Kong been working since I remember, and you see it everywhere.

You clean your panels on top of your house like year to year? I recon this ones will need clean every six months. And it will not be done.

[JustMeHere]

There's seriously no way at all those panels will remain in place with the system demonstrated.  Not on a regular use track.

[Lord of nothing]

Honnestly I want see them on (our) 230kmh Tracks with the subduction power of the Train...
Beside of that on local Railway Tracks its maybe not "that" dumb. Cleaing are not "that" difficult when a Cleaning Train is rush over with some Nozzles.
Well the least People know that the Railway Operator spray ton and tons of Chemicals on, beside the Track to stop Plants from Growing.
The wodden thinks under the Railway Tracks (sorry I dont know the English Phrase for) is highly contaminded so the must be burried in an old Mine as Special Treatment Waste.

EDIT: Well something to the Video the Railway Operator dont own the Land next to the Tracks. And Mr. Eevblog what did you think cost every m² in that Area for Building something? Here in Vienna the affiew m² where our House is on is alone worth ~1Mio €!  When someone would say the want build Solar Pannel on our Land here sure cost maybe 10.000€ - 100.000€/ m². 

[TimFox]

In British English, the wood spacers under the rails are called "sleepers".
In American English, they are called "cross-ties" or "ties".
They may be made of concrete or other material, but the original material is wood treated with nasty chemicals.
As in the song "Railroading on the Great Divide": 
"Ask any old-timer from Old Cheyenne,
Railroad in Wyoming the best in the land
The long steel rails, the short cross ties
I laid across the Great Divide."

[SiliconWizard]

There's seriously no way at all those panels will remain in place with the system demonstrated.  Not on a regular use track.

Sure, but who cares? It will save the planet.

[Haenk]

I would assume the "floating panels" would be rather cheap to install (a board of styrofoam is plenty enough) and will offer an additional benefit: reducing the growth of algae in the water, so way less filtering is needed.

[Xpendable]

Here in Chicago, I ride a passenger train to and from work on the Chicago Metro Rail. The passenger cars a big. They are 2 story with an upper deck. These cars weigh almost 58 tonnes. The diesel electric locos that push and pull these are probably heavier. When these trains go over the tracks, you can see the railroad ties physically sink into ground 30-50mm as the wheels go past, which means the steel rails themselves are flexing a bit. The point I am making is that not only are the rails vibrating and in general, being a dusty environment, but they are also physically moving and flexing. Good luck keeping those solar panels intack!

Here is a video I recorded at my station yesterday as one of these bad boys pulled in.  See the rails move yourself.

https://youtu.be/qhQ3mixozgM

[SiliconWizard]

I have actually seen how rails themselves are assembled, it's fascinating.
Yes they can take a good amount of flexing and expansion.

[nctnico]

Yes Dave, I know, but think with me. You are doing a test of a system right? So for you to test is something is viable you will try to keep the system in test in the best condition possible right, in a way to have a fully accurate info from what it has been logged right?

The lesson to be learned is that solar panels need to be mounted at a much steeper angle so birds don't s(h)it on them and the rain washes the panels clean. Judging from the solar panels mounted on the roof of my backdoor neighbours, rain will wash bird crap off perfectly.

Here in Chicago, I ride a passenger train to and from work on the Chicago Metro Rail. The passenger cars a big. They are 2 story with an upper deck. These cars weigh almost 58 tonnes. The diesel electric locos that push and pull these are probably heavier. When these trains go over the tracks, you can see the railroad ties physically sink into ground 30-50mm as the wheels go past, which means the steel rails themselves are flexing a bit. The point I am making is that not only are the rails vibrating and in general, being a dusty environment, but they are also physically moving and flexing. Good luck keeping those solar panels intack!

If you look at how the panels are mounted between the tracks (from the original video material) you'll see that these form a long chain that can be removed again. The flexing of the tracks is already being accounted for through the links of the chain. Also keep in mind that solar panels in general will be exposed to vibration and flexing (remember glass is a liquid!) no matter where they are mounted. Heat expansion and strong winds will cause forces on the panels and make them bend a little bit. Ordinary solar panels are rated for winds speeds of at least 225km/h. That is hurricane level 4 / 5 territory. And then there is hail stone testing solar panels using diameters up to 55mm and speeds up to 122km/h. IOW: there is absolutely no reason to think that solar panels will be damaged by train traffic when placed between a track.

Testing solar panels:

[wizard69]

What blows my mind is that there are far better ways to leverage open spaces, some public some private.   For example rail stations should be covered in solar panels, the same for bus stops and other waiting spaces.  Most of these can be done at a far lower cost than any solar road way, railway or foot path for that matter.

As for trains, for anybody that has ever walked along a rail line for any length of time they have to be laughing their asses off over this idea.

[SiliconWizard]

As for trains, for anybody that has ever walked along a rail line for any length of time they have to be laughing their asses off over this idea.

Yep, except those who get the money. You can even convince yourself that you're doing the right thing, when money flows in. See Theranos.
 

[nctnico]

What blows my mind is that there are far better ways to leverage open spaces, some public some private.   For example rail stations should be covered in solar panels, the same for bus stops and other waiting spaces.  Most of these can be done at a far lower cost than any solar road way, railway or foot path for that matter.

True, but if you start looking for more places to put solar panels at the point in time where all the low hanging fruit has been collected, you are too late. Projects like these help collect useful data on what works and what doesn't. Real data & experience is much, much more reliable and valuable than underbelly guessing.

[Dan_8123]

And they're still at it 

https://www-20min-ch.translate.goog/story/strom-auf-schienen-schweizer-start-up-will-strom-auf-schienen-erzeugen-103017181?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

[rteodor]

What blows my mind is that there are far better ways to leverage open spaces, some public some private.   For example rail stations should be covered in solar panels, the same for bus stops and other waiting spaces.  Most of these can be done at a far lower cost than any solar road way, railway or foot path for that matter.

True, but if you start looking for more places to put solar panels at the point in time where all the low hanging fruit has been collected, you are too late. Projects like these help collect useful data on what works and what doesn't. Real data & experience is much, much more reliable and valuable than underbelly guessing.

Well i want a job like that: to prove what intuition says that something can not be done by failing it. So this is like engineering but in the opposite way, something like an anti-engineering job. When engineering jobs meet anti-engineering jobs they annihilate each other and large amounts of money gets produced.

[SiliconWizard]

What blows my mind is that there are far better ways to leverage open spaces, some public some private.   For example rail stations should be covered in solar panels, the same for bus stops and other waiting spaces.  Most of these can be done at a far lower cost than any solar road way, railway or foot path for that matter.

True, but if you start looking for more places to put solar panels at the point in time where all the low hanging fruit has been collected, you are too late. Projects like these help collect useful data on what works and what doesn't. Real data & experience is much, much more reliable and valuable than underbelly guessing.

Well i want a job like that: to prove what intuition says that something can not be done by failing it. So this is like engineering but in the opposite way, something like an anti-engineering job. When engineering jobs meet anti-engineering jobs they annihilate each other and large amounts of money gets produced.

That's a spot-on analysis of the situation. The anti-engineer.

[rymannphilippe]

Some NEWS from Switzerland: https://www.pv-magazine.de/2024/10/04/schweiz-genehmigt-abnehmbare-photovoltaik-anlage-auf-bahngleisen/

it is being built and is not dead.

48 panels with 18kW Peak for 620,000 EURO

Today's schools, such as the Haute Ecole d'Ingénierie et de Gestion du Canton de Vaud (HEIG-VD), are no longer worth anything and absolutely nothing sensible is taught.