EEVblog #1248 - INSANE A 0.02% Process Meter for $9? WTF

[amspire]

Refund from AliExpress followed an hour later, then I left negative feedback (which apparently takes 30 days to appear on the sellers feedback profile)

...

Seriously though: 30 days can get in a lot of suss trading before other unaware buyers get to make a choice as to whether that seller is worth a punt 

I do not know where this 30 days came from. I can see feedback from 2 days ago.

Feedback I left for Manbo is there from 31st October for a faked shipping meter - the only trouble is it shows up as 5 stars. I gave five stars for the item description and one for everything else. Looks like the feedback summary only shows the stars for the item description. So don't give five stars for an item description unless you have received it.

I will be getting a refund from AliExpress soon for my Cozy Life order - they are still asking for me to cancel the dispute saying they are the victim. They have now offered me 3 refunds via PayPal and all of them are less then the amount I paid!

[CheckOne Two]

Latest from DHgate tonethiny:



LOL ... there is no "Package is still on way" option ...................... 

[BravoV]

AliExpress stepped in, and I guess AliExpress Case Management Team are seeing this pattern alot.

aliexpress@notice.aliexpress.com
   
Dear xxxxx,

The dispute (order id: xxxxx ) has been closed today and we have made a mediation. You can log in to <http:xxxxx> to check the details.

After checking, the tracking information shows "shipment cancelled" or "no records" , which means that seller didn't shipped the goods within required time.

In this case, your payment is expected to return to your credit card, please be patient to your bank statements. If you still want to get the goods, we warmly suggest you can contact seller and get a good solution.

Complaints from buyer - shipping abnormal
Judgement from AE - Valid
Invalid Reason - NA

Package Information
ePacket    LOxxxxx05CN shipping abnormal

Final resolution: full refund <full amount I paid>

Reminder: Normally buyer will receive the refund in 3-20 business days.

Please spare a few minutes to provide feedback on the service I have provided. We strive on improving our performance consistently, and feedback ratings help us evaluate our performance further.

Thank you for your cooperation and support, and hope you have a great experience shopping with AliExpress. Your understanding and cooperation will be appreciated.


Best regards,

AliExpress Case Management Team

Just fyi, as above email from AE dated on 4th Nov, just checked my CC, the refund credited into my CC account was happening at the same day, and due to currencies conversion fluctuations, actually I got more than I paid, not biggie though, in cents.   

Regarding feedback, as soon AE closed the transaction dispute by refund decision, instantly I could filed a negative feedback (one star) + description, mentioned they lied on shipment using fake tracking code and also asked the refund thru paypal which is not legit way.

[BravoV]

for AliExpress orders, I used a CC that specifically opened for online shopping to minimize risk, as this particular CC issuer bank, diligently beeps me thru SMS at every transaction no matter how small it is

I recently tried buying something from AliExpress and my VISA would not take the charge no matter how many times I tried, even after calling and verifying the flagged transaction as not fraud. I guess they know something I don't know (AMEX card took it, though).

My credit card is VISA, so far I've been using it for shopping at AliExpress, eBay etc and for Paypal too, without any problem what so ever. 

[Kjelt]

New !!!! from the Unhappy customer - and the Manbo Jumbo - store:

"The invisible multimeter^TM" 

This multimeter is unique, it is totally invisible, even better the package we will sent you is also totally invisible^*.
Order now, only $9 .


^*Due to the fact the package is invisible the tracking nrs might be messed up, don't worry this is completely normal and the package will probably be sent to someone else in your country.

[Brumby]

Refund received.  Feedback left.

Now moving on ...

[DenCraw]

I agree with you.

The tragic thing is that I smell organized random crime. With my payment they refund the little payments... since I get the 60€ one.
I think we have to study this behavior.
thank you very much for your words.


....Quod Petis Hic Est: est Ulubris, Animus si te non Deficit Aequus'... jeje,

[innkeeper]

DHGATE

so i opend a dispute, this is how it is going

Code: [Select]

yaseri 2019-11-06 09:43

Dear friends
We did send the parcel to you before.
But the freight forward tells us that your parcel was lost on the way.
We are really sorry
Because our warehouse is now out of stock.
So we have no way to resend your package now.
Can you help us change the dispute?
We can help you with a full refund.
Thank you
[/font]
my reply:

Code: [Select]

ME 2019-11-07 04:57

why has this happened to many people who ordered this same item?

i do not believe this was a real shipment as this happened to others who ordered the same item,  it is near impossible that all the orders were lost.

we can give evidence to dj gate and are prepared to do so.

I wish for dj gate to pay me the 30 usd for false tracking and, for you to have a negative strike against you for this bad practice.
You have caused me to now be unable to obtain this item due to your deceitful activities, and i intend to peruse this fully.

this is just not me but others who have ordered this item. we are in contact with each other on the eevblog forum. you can check this for yourself.

I do not intend to change the dispute.  i want dh gate to be aware of exactly what you did to me and to others.


[beanflying]

Well that is a WOFTAM and confirms what we already know dheadgate is off my shopping list in future

DhGate's system is built for the seller to abuse and hide behind using a valid but none the less FAKE tracking number.

http://help.dhgate.com/help/buyerhelpen.php?catid=3902#help_php-indexleft-20

Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:01:35
Hi! My name is Gretchen. May I know your name and concern please?
我   2019-11-07 11:01:38
I have a problem with my current order. The seller has provided a fake tracking number and has stopped replying to messages.They have lied from the beginning of the sale process including trying to get additional money from me to supply the item.
我   2019-11-07 11:01:47
Hi too
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:02:06
I understand let me help you with that.
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:02:17
Can I have the order number please so that I can verify it here?
我   2019-11-07 11:02:36
I3149753300
我   2019-11-07 11:03:45
Your system won't let me lodge a dispute for the false tracking number
我   2019-11-07 11:03:55
Sure I can wait
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:04:32
Thank you so much.
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:08:12
Thank you for waiting.
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:09:27
For this order we suggest please open a dispute on this order for the reason of "item not received" since it's already beyond the guaranteed delivery date.
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:09:40
Do you want me to send the steps on how to open a dispute?
我   2019-11-07 11:10:25
I am aware of how to open a dispute. I want to open one for the false tracking number and your system won't allow me to do this?
我   2019-11-07 11:10:58
The only reason allowed it the item is still in transit which it is not
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:11:09
Yes I understand it won't allow you because the tracking number is not invalid it is just still in transit as of now.
我   2019-11-07 11:12:41
It is not in transit at all. The seller has acknowledged this in a private message. The made up a story that the number was incorrectly added to the invoice.
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:13:01
成功接收图片：http://hk-9839.nt.dhgate.com/store/func/imagetrans/download2.php?f=+LE1dYRmjqkZUJVfEmebbr4kscgiXzCkeoH3rHSLXgU&q=orcyIIZn2/tABvtfG2WSaKR45KcjUjaqYoD4pz/RHgDCcGBS8p2YHhQhxQivmaimZiXlo/oPjAECJA0claRXS2duJWDOUiI ；大小：99.07 KB
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:14:13
Okay I understand that since you cannot open a diuspute for invalid tracking number we suggest please open a dispute for the reason of "item not recieved" so that you can successfully open the dispute.
我   2019-11-07 11:14:52
Why can I not select the TRUE reason for the dispute?
我   2019-11-07 11:15:27
Clearly this is outside this date?
我   2019-11-07 11:15:30
“Invalid tracking number” can not select as It's in transit and still within the range of the seller's delivery estimate time 2019-10-28，please be patient to wait or contact seller for help.
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:16:17
Yes I understand that because the system is basing on the tracking information that shows it's still in transit
我   2019-11-07 11:16:56
But it was a fake number as admitted by the seller?
我   2019-11-07 11:17:30
This fake followed the demand for a lot more money to supply the item
我   2019-11-07 11:18:47
So how can you help me resolve this so the seller doesn't do this again to others?
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:20:17
Okay I understand for now we will report this seller to the related team so that it will not happen again. For the meantime we also suggest please open a dispute for "item not receive" so that the dispute team can help you sort things out.
我   2019-11-07 11:20:53
I am trying to follow this procedure [url]http://help.dhgate.com/help/buyerhelpen.php?catid=2405artid=9ACFF44CC9020EA2E0400A0AD20A71B2[/url]
我   2019-11-07 11:21:24
It applies a penalty to the seller but your system won't allow me to use it?
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:23:23
May I know what's this procedure please because I couldn't open the link here.
我   2019-11-07 11:24:14
It is on your site under "Tracking Your Items"
我   2019-11-07 11:24:53
It clearly sets out what to do but your system clearly doesn't allow it?
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:25:33
Okay it maybe a Technical issue only. Can you try to refresh the page, delete cache and cookies, switch to other browsers like internet explorer or chrome and try to do it again?
我   2019-11-07 11:26:28
The procedure is to go to the dispute page and select "False Tracking Number" which I can not do? Why is that?
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:30:05
Yes I understand as have said earlier the system won't allow you because it based on the tracking information that the tracking number is not invalid and it shows it is in transit that is why you cannot choose the invalid tracking number as option.
我   2019-11-07 11:31:18
So if the seller uses a valid but FAKE number I can not lodge a dispute for an invalid tracking number in spite of their admitting they added a FAKE one ?
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:32:49
Yes because it shows not valid in the tracking information. No worries you can still open a dispute for "item not received" so that you can have a refund or replacement.
我   2019-11-07 11:34:12
So the seller gets away with it because they used your system to hide behind?
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:34:59
No worries because we will report this seller so that the related team will take action on this.
我   2019-11-07 11:36:35
So your seller Guarantee is worthless?
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:41:19
I understand that however what we can do here is that for you to open a dispute for this case since it has passed the guaranteed delivery and also to protect your payment from being released to the seller that is why we highly encourage buyers to open a dispute if something has gone wrong with the order.
我   2019-11-07 11:43:00
So your guarantee is clearly useless and the seller can manipulate it and get away without penalty. This is unacceptable!
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:44:54
Yes I understand the related team will be the one whose going to punish the seller for doing this.
我   2019-11-07 11:46:29
Your system is broken if it will not allow my to claim appropriately
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:50:51
Yes I do understand we highly suggest open a dispute for the reason of "item not received" and it will also be reflected on the record of the seller.
我   2019-11-07 11:52:00
As it is pointless to continue this further with you I am finishing this conversation. I do not blame you but I blame your system which is clearly at fault.
我   2019-11-07 11:52:06
thanks for your time
Gretchen   2019-11-07 11:52:52
Okay thank you for understanding.

[member_xyz]

Well that is a WOFTAM and confirms what we already know dheadgate is off my shopping list in future

DhGate's system is built for the seller to abuse and hide behind using a valid but none the less FAKE tracking number.

+1.

 Seller wanted more money, couldn't ship, but would co-operate for refund provided that there was no penalty and negative feedback. When that didn't work, seller resorted to "proven fail safe process" by providing a false tracking number.
After the original deadline for delivery expired, dhgate extended the funds release date to seller to Feb 2020, while shipping with fake tracking continued.

I got sick of the bullshit and agreed open the dispute under only one option that is available to buyers.

"Item not received", "shipping still in progress".

Seller agreed,  dhgate refunded full payment , case closed without any penalty to the seller.
For what its worth , I was able to give totally negative review to the seller and dhgate for their process in the survey that was provided by dhgate afterwords.

[BravoV]

Just don't understand why purchase from dhgate ? 

So if there is a fishy web sites that has similar offer, you guys will instantly jump on it as well ? 

[beanflying]

Just don't understand why purchase from dhgate ? 

So if there is a fishy web sites that has similar offer, you guys will instantly jump on it as well ? 

As dheadgate is one of the smaller platforms it's pitfalls and shortcomings are not widely known but we have now found some and more of us are aware.

As to your go take a long walk off a short pier !

[mansaxel]

Dispute handled by Aliexpress, money returned, 1-star feedback left.    Now I only need a precision voltage and current source!

[maginnovision]

On one of mine Ali is refusing to force a refund. They keep telling me to wait and if I don't get it from the post office that's my fault. Despite the fact that I uploaded screenshots of the seller saying they will not ship and their official dispute response being that they want me to cancel dispute and then they'll refund via paypal.  Oh well, onto a third dispute extension.

[Macbeth]

On one of mine Ali is refusing to force a refund. They keep telling me to wait and if I don't get it from the post office that's my fault. Despite the fact that I uploaded screenshots of the seller saying they will not ship and their official dispute response being that they want me to cancel dispute and then they'll refund via paypal.  Oh well, onto a third dispute extension.

Yes, same here. I got refunded by Ali from the Shenzhen Super seller quickly because he only had a fake tracking number. My Cozy Life are fucking criminals though - we have plenty of examples of them using duplicate tracking numbers that go to the destination country but to some other state.

In my case "Cozy Life" sent me a number of messages starting with "Shipper lost item in post - we don't have stock - please choose another item, or refund by paypal" to "please don't dispute - we can pay your friends or family paypal or you can open paypal here...".

Present this blatant evidence to AliExpress - they say "it's still in the tracking system and you have 10 days, the seller will be deemed to have correctly shipped the item if you can't give proof otherwise". Absolute fucking joke. 

[beanflying]

One day later Should I fill out the customer survey before or after alcoholic beverages 

[RobertPS]

On one of mine Ali is refusing to force a refund. They keep telling me to wait and if I don't get it from the post office that's my fault. Despite the fact that I uploaded screenshots of the seller saying they will not ship and their official dispute response being that they want me to cancel dispute and then they'll refund via paypal.  Oh well, onto a third dispute extension.

Same exact response here. I selected Aliexpress standard shipping. Seller provided fake EMS tracking number which is stuck on in transit status on Aliexpress tracking, but has reached status POD almost three weeks ago on China post EMS tracking.
I can' t track it with my postal code locally and nothing has been delivered. When questioned the seller send me a message that the package was returned and recalled to the factory. He can' t send it again and wants to refund with Paypal (I did not pay with Paypal). So I opened a dispute with screenshots asking for a refund from Aliexpress. Then a waiting period.
Seller's response was to ask me to cancel the dispute and then he would refund with Paypal. I refused.
After the waiting period Aliexpress steps in and denies my request for a refund, telling me to wait 10 days because the package is still on its way. 

[DenCraw]

On one of mine Ali is refusing to force a refund. They keep telling me to wait and if I don't get it from the post office that's my fault. Despite the fact that I uploaded screenshots of the seller saying they will not ship and their official dispute response being that they want me to cancel dispute and then they'll refund via paypal.  Oh well, onto a third dispute extension.

1. you have to screenshot the messages and put them as a proof.
2. write each day a message on the dispute board.
3. have a daily chat explaining the problem to the agent. they are like bot. I think they practice lobotomy on them before they take the job.

after a week of bombarding them i have received this e.mail from Ali dispute dept.

"Dear ES shopper,
Thank you for contacting AliExpress. I am sorry to hear that you are not satisfied with your order 80032XXXXXX889.
According to the latest information, inaccuracy is found in our previous email. Please take this one as reference. I am sorry that you didn't get an adequate solution from the seller. We checked the information and supportive evidence you provided for this dispute, your claim is accepted. For this dispute, Aliexpress can provide you the following solution: Full refund. Thank you in advance for your understanding and great cooperation."

this proves that they have a multiple escalating system.
if an order number reach certain number of inputs from the dipute board and from the chat agents they prioritize that order and read carefully the reasons.
just expose them. Never do paypal, nor positive feedback nor a dispute harmless for the seller. NEVER.

I call this strategy "gentle bombing the finest system"

[maginnovision]

At 20$ I'm not terribly worried, I really just want the seller to get a mark for a dispute settled against them. Then I can leave negative feedback too. The screenshots were uploaded on the 22nd when I opened the dispute. If I had time I'd do a chat every day, for now I'll try writing on the dispute every day. I suppose I'll just copy paste and change the order around or something.

[BravoV]

Here my dispute log complete with date sequences from AE, and also the attached print screen of the chat provided as the evidence, hope this helps.

[ogden]

I provided my paypal ID to seller, yet did not agree/confirm to refund through Paypal. Result: I got close to full refund in Paypal (due to commissions) *and* full refund through Ali dispute. Aliexpress seems did not even read whole story, just resolved in my favor in a snap. Seller seems to have bigger problems than this mistake. I do not feel like lost anything at all. Just some time and tears of laugh.

[Kean]

I provided my paypal ID to seller, yet did not agree/confirm to refund through Paypal. Result: I got close to full refund in Paypal (due to commissions) *and* full refund through Ali dispute. Aliexpress seems did not even read whole story, just resolved in my favor in a snap. Seller seems to have bigger problems than this mistake. I do not feel like lost anything at all. Just some time and tears of laugh.

Glad to hear it.  I'm surprised the seller didn't consider this as a potential outcome of offering refunds outside of AE.

[ArthurDent]

Since 9/27/2019 I've played the same game as other posters and it is almost over. On 10/25/2019 they said the package was delivered yet the tracking said it hadn't left China yet. I left messages on AliExpress and got no reply. I have left 1-star feedback for My Cozy Life because I couldn't leave zero and opened a dispute and have got the same reply as others.

Buyer requested a refund
Dispute Reason: No tracking information
Proposal: Refund US $ 18.20
Comments:
Order Number: 800xxxxxxxxx7528
Tracking number ASXXXXXXX105CN
What type of scam is being run here? Tracking shows my order hasn’t even left China yet but somehow it has been delivered and signed for in the U.S., which is an outright lie. This tracking is bogus and it seems hundreds of other customers from around the world have reported in an online blog that they are getting the same runaround on orders of this particular item from “My Cozy Life” and other sellers on Aliexpress. This is outright fraud!
_____________________________________________________________________________

Buyer rejected a proposal
Proposal: Refund US $ 0.00
Comments:
Dear buyer , sorry for the trouble.in order to protect your right ,how about we refund to your paypal ?or would you like to choose oother item you like in our store?sorry for the trouble again and hope you could give us a chance ,could you ? could you please cancel the dispute for us and contact us quickly ? you know we do business within the principal of good faith ,we will take charge for all orders . but the dispute is so harm for us , beg for your understanding , nice day

[wilfred]

@ArthurDent yep, same here with Manbo Life Store. I rejected the paypal refund offer. Aliexpress has gone quiet. I suppose I will just have to wait until the clock calendar times out.

[Medtech1]

I'm having a miserable time with Aliexpress Disputes and "My Cozy Life Store". I have provided repeated evidence since day one showing messages from the Seller stating:

"Dear
sorry
we  had sent for you before
 but we just got the information the parcel will been returned to us due to Crucial
Defectives of the elements and function .
we need to return all of these items back to theirs factory
for a Security Inspection until the issue solved.
in order to protect your right ,could you please tell us your paypal to get the refund back or would you like to choose other item as replace in our store ?
sorry for the trouble again and waiting for quickly reply ,
nice day."

and

"Dear buyer,
sorry for the trouble.
If you do have no paypal, and don't want to choose other item in our store ,
how about we refund you by aliexpress.
In this case,you need to confirm the receipt ,then  you can open a dispute, it would be highly appreciated if you can choose the reason "A. Personal Reasons
B. Easy return
C. Shipping method was not as described" after confrimed the receipt and then inform us?
Please follow below steps:
1-the first section please select return and refund.
2-after that please choose personal reason.
3-then please choose I ordered by mistake or I no longer need the product.
4- then put the amount that should be refunded.
5-then in the last section it ask to specify why I am requesting a refund. you can write that I ordered by mistake.
are these steps okay with you ?
Please advice,then we could refund for you as the platform rule
Nice day"

Aliexpress keeps telling me "after checking the tracking information, this order is still within purchase protection time, please be patience waiting for the international package."  The seller told me my package is not coming.. aliexpress ignores that evidence.   I ordered this on the release of Daves Patreon video.

btw, how are some of you able to leave feedback when the seller has not shipped the item and therefore you can't confirm receipt of the item?