EEVblog #1248 - INSANE A 0.02% Process Meter for $9? WTF

[ogden]

Oh well, have to raise a dispute.

Right. Seems like they are getting so many disputes regarding "process meter WTF insanity" that they do not even read your claim carefully, just decide in your favor full refund amount in a snap.

[EEVblog]

[johnlsenchak]

In my  humble  opinion,   they are  manufacture   quality control   rejects  sold  on the   salvage  market  When  the  people  in China  realized that they   couldn't  supply  the huge demand , that's when  they did  the bait and  switch or raised  the price  on the meters that   made the grade  when  it came  to  the quality  control   specifications

[maginnovision]

In my  humble  opinion,   they are  manufacture   quality control   rejects  sold  on the   salvage  market  When  the  people  in China  realized that they   couldn't  supply  the huge demand , that's when  they did  the bait and  switch or raised  the price  on the meters that   made the grade  when  it came  to  the quality  control   specifications

I got 2 and both failed the same way. If they're qa rejects it's still a little curious as they worked out of the box. Only when I tested them, gently, did they fail. I think the DACs failed but I still need to check the DAC spi comms before I'm sure. Even if it is the DACs... They probably aren't worth the $20 a piece to fix.

[Spuddevans]

I too ordered one from MyCozyLife store, got the fake tracking number, did a little too-ing and fro-ing in the "Chat" with them claiming that the shipping company issued a tracking number by mistake, that they didn't have it in stock anymore (despite the original webpage still showing 2 in stock, albeit at the inflated $122 price!!).

I got fed up with the lies and scamming attempts so opened a dispute with screenshots of the chat's where they had admitted not shipping it. Now they want me to close that dispute and open up another dispute but claim that I've changed my mind, that I don't want the item.

Nevertheless, the original dispute is still standing, if they choose to be dishonest and scammy, they are not going to drag me down to their level, I called them out on their tactics, and provided AliExpress with the evidence.

Tim

[Mortymore]

This one is just to add a print screen that I took in October 15, when "My Cosy Life Store" relisted the meter for $155.03, since I didn't add the image when I posted the information at #1248 of this thread.

[PA4TIM]

Why would you want a thing like this. A calibrator in an unknown state of calibration and it is also unknown how it will hold it's "calibration".
Better make one yourself, You also do not know how close the output is but at least you can use good stabler parts.
Or buy a decent multimeter. Even my Fluke 77 would make a better reference because after +25 years it is still spot on.

Calibration is all about things like confidence, building op a history, tractability, and stability over time. And there are things like seebeckl, tempco, rel.humidity etc. This thing has completely nothing to do with anything even related to calibration.

And, NO, it is not a good thing for the money. The usability is as low as the price.  If you check your DMM with it you still do not know if your meter is in spec or that it is the calibrator that has by coincidence the same deviation so it looks like your meter is within specs.

[Mortymore]

Why would you want a thing like this.

Because a set of test leads with alligators and 2 spare fuses for $9 is a good price. 

A calibrator??? What calibrator? 

Now being serious... I believe that we all know from the start that this meter wasn't reliable. But it was a bargain to tamper with, a toy to play, disassemble, try to repair... well... have some fun.
At least that would be my purpose.

[ludzinc]

The version I got:

Dear buyer,
sorry .we just got the information the parcel will been returned to us due to Crucial Defectives of the elements and function .
we need to return all of these items back to theirs factory for a Security Inspection until the issue solved.
in order to protect your right ,could you please tell us your paypal to get the refund back
or would you like to choose other item as replace in our store ?
sorry for the trouble again and waiting for quickly reply ,
nice day

I opened the dispute and got this reply:

(Attachment Link)

No deal.  Escalating!  My Cozy Life Store is going to suffer the consequences.

Aliexpress have now reviewed my dispute and make the follow 'recommendation':



My reply:



So, now a 3 day wait, errm, awaits!

[amspire]

I just opened a dispute for Cozy Life for the same reason - wrong tracking number.

I am surprised that AliExpress didn't give you an immediate refund given the package was sent to the wrong address. In my case, it may be more straightforward in that Cozy Life have admitted the item is "lost", even though the tracking number they provided was successfully delivered.

[station240]

In my  humble  opinion,   they are  manufacture   quality control   rejects  sold  on the   salvage  market  When  the  people  in China  realized that they   couldn't  supply  the huge demand , that's when  they did  the bait and  switch or raised  the price  on the meters that   made the grade  when  it came  to  the quality  control   specifications

I got 2 and both failed the same way. If they're qa rejects it's still a little curious as they worked out of the box. Only when I tested them, gently, did they fail. I think the DACs failed but I still need to check the DAC spi comms before I'm sure. Even if it is the DACs... They probably aren't worth the $20 a piece to fix.

Curious, sounds like ESD damage. Someone in the supply chain/factory zapped a few chips and these rejects are the result.
Garbage In, Garbage Out.

[Medtech1]

Same situation for me with Cozy Life....   same excuse from them.. same suggestion.. lies... wanting me to close the dispute or they won't refund.   Now, the waiting game for my refund.    I'm done using Aliexpress.... Ebay is so much easier dealing with crooked sellers... and Aliexpress is full of dishonest ones.

[thinkfat]

Same situation for me with Cozy Life....   same excuse from them.. same suggestion.. lies... wanting me to close the dispute or they won't refund.   Now, the waiting game for my refund.    I'm done using Aliexpress.... Ebay is so much easier dealing with crooked sellers... and Aliexpress is full of dishonest ones.

Nah, don't generalize like that. There's weird people on Ebay, too. I'm currently waiting for a couple of BNC-MCX pigtails, for a week or so already, while the seller claimed to have stock in-country. Actually, their warehouse in somewhere in China and while they provide you with a DHL shipping number immediately, the package will not show up in DHL's system until the container from Shenzen arrives.

[Medtech1]

Nah, don't generalize like that. There's weird people on Ebay, too.

This meter purchase was just something that pushed me over the edge... (after dealing with a few other dishonest sellers in the last short time). It comes down to the amount of time I have to spend with dishonest sellers... I've been on Ebay for 20 years.. have 1000 feedbacks, it was rare to have to do a negative feedback. 

Aliexpress feedback system favours the sellers over the buyers... in the case of the seller not shipping the item, you cannot even select that as the reason for asking for a refund, which is ridiculous.  They don't even let you give feedback for when a seller neglects to ship you an item, unless you lie and say you received it... (a total oxymoron).

[Bud]

What a drama.... I hope the thrill of buying was worth the trouble. 

[Per Hansson]

I ordered from "KingPet Market Store" just an hour or two after Dave released the video to Patreons.
Mine now shows up as shipped with a working tracking number.
I did pay an extra $9 for express shipping via "Fedex IP" but according to Aliexpress the seller used TNT.
In any case so far it looks alright.
It does look like the tracking number is a regular China Post one though.
I guess that is one way to recoup a bit of cost, in any case I'm fine as long as I get my two meters

Well it was all a lie, the seller provided that tracking number that shows the item going to Sweden.
It has been "delivered to air transport in Shenzhen" since the 28:th of September, I think the plane is running low on fuel if they have not landed yet!
What pisses me off is that the seller had written me a message, but I did not see that message when I logged in to AliExpress.
And neither did I got any notification of such via e-mail, it was the same message about "quality problems" and that they cannot ship.
Well, it's called mail fraud to then enter a tracking number into the system that is completely faked!
AliExpress sided with me and have given a full refund, the seller of course wanted to settle outside of AlieExpress...
Here is my 1-star feedback:

Seller actually never shipped the item but provided a fake tracking number so it looked like it was shipped to AliExpress. He then wanted to refund directly via Paypal so that AliExpress would never see that he did not ship the item.
Also low rating for product description because the LCD display is photoshopped where it shows a reading.

[SantaClaw]

Well... Looks like my meter ain't coming either...



It was ordered on the 28'th of september 2019

[thm_w]

Aliexpress feedback system favours the sellers over the buyers... in the case of the seller not shipping the item, you cannot even select that as the reason for asking for a refund, which is ridiculous.  They don't even let you give feedback for when a seller neglects to ship you an item, unless you lie and say you received it... (a total oxymoron).

If they don't ship the item, the sale times out and it auto-refunds. If they provide a fake tracking number, then you use that as the reason for return.
There is no reason to have a "never shipped" option...

I got 2 and both failed the same way. If they're qa rejects it's still a little curious as they worked out of the box. Only when I tested them, gently, did they fail. I think the DACs failed but I still need to check the DAC spi comms before I'm sure. Even if it is the DACs... They probably aren't worth the $20 a piece to fix.

How specifically were you testing them, when they failed?

[maginnovision]

Low level signals being applied and sourced to/from source/sim "ports". I did 4-20 mA, 150mV, 1.5V and 10V while on input mode. Shortly after while comparing its output to a stable dc calibrator output using a null meter the outputs started doing the stair stepping.

EDIT: Attached a picture of the output I had posted this before in the TE thread. They both do this now.

[edmundopt]

so... what am I supposed to do with this process meter ? what is it used for ?

[IanB]

so... what am I supposed to do with this process meter ? what is it used for ?

Industrial automation systems use standard signal levels like 1 to 5 V or 4 to 20 mA. Instrument technicians may need an accurate source of such signals to calibrate process instruments and control systems.

[maxwell3e10]

Well, practically it can be used as a handy DC source. For example, can map I-V curve of a diode (using another meter to measure voltage) or simulate DC voltage input to some circuit. Given the poor reliability, it can't really be used to calibrate anything, but if you have another meter on hand to check it, there is still some positive utility.

[ritaismyconscience]

I bought on DHGate. Apparently you can ask for a refund if you didn't get it by a certain date.
This is from their website:


I filed a dispute. Hope this goes well and I get my twenty dollars back.

[thm_w]

Low level signals being applied and sourced to/from source/sim "ports". I did 4-20 mA, 150mV, 1.5V and 10V while on input mode. Shortly after while comparing its output to a stable dc calibrator output using a null meter the outputs started doing the stair stepping.

EDIT: Attached a picture of the output I had posted this before in the TE thread. They both do this now.

I am seeing the same thing now as well. If you have a working meter, and set the output you will get overshoot/undershoot whenever the value is changed. This is telling me there is feedback control of the output by the PIC. The stairstep height can be the maximum change in the feedback function, width being how often the function is called.

If you set the value to 5V say then hold down the "up" arrow, the voltage will now be stable, because the PIC is stuck in the button interrupt/routine, and can't send new data to the DAC.

So, this does indicate damage as you say. I'm thinking CAL data and firmware are OK (since you didn't touch the CAL pins).
What we need to do next is trace the 10V input (mine always reads as 0.013V now, I suspect yours is similar), and look for any damaged components (short to gnd?). Hopefully its something before the ADC (ADS1232). mV is still working, so that should be a different path, and tells us at least the ADC is functional on that specific input (it has two, one for mV one for V maybe).

I did input 12V at one point into the 10V input (current limited), it could be that that damaged it, or perhaps switching from one range to another (24V to 10V) too quickly with output enabled, etc. that caused some residual voltage. Either way, the circuit can obviously be improved.

[all_repair]

 I've been on Ebay for 20 years.. have 1000 feedbacks, it was rare to have to do a negative feedback. 

Aliexpress feedback system favours the sellers over the buyers... in the case of the seller not shipping the item, you cannot even select that as the reason for asking for a refund, which is ridiculous.  They don't even let you give feedback for when a seller neglects to ship you an item, unless you lie and say you received it... (a total oxymoron).

It depend on your luck.  Trust me, the seasoned seller can game the ebay system very well too.  I got hit, and at the end not able to get refund of USD150 and also not able to leave negative feedback as the feedback window was overed.  Ebay basically rule in the seller's favour, and did not bother to go through the messages that the seller was misleading me every steps along the way to go against ebay rules on the retun procedure.  Ebay has since changed some of the rules I heard but has lost me forever .  Likewise these sellers know the aliexpress system much better than aliexpress, and is able to game their system by generating fake shipping information.  But in aliexpress, the money does not go to the seller until you accept the deal.  The money is with aliexpress, once you ack receipt OK, the deal is considered done well and considered close and seller shall not be bothered with you anymore after your feedback. 

For this case, seller use fake shipping and make delivery date very late (2 month) for my order.  After 10 days, I asked aliexpress through the chat to override their long window and let let me raise a dispute.  I would actually let the seller off for this case if they do not fake delivery and just ACK that they do not have stock.  But apparently listing and selling when they do not stock is a big NO NO in aliexpress rule.