EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds

[timelessbeing]

Haha! That was funny. I'm going to go find that movie.

[Electro Detective]

Weller have been getting away with unfused dumbassery for decades. I'm amazed they still do it today, and get away with safety regulation BS approval markings.

The gear is good quality and performs well, except for no fusing on the primary and secondary. 

It cost me $5? retail to fit two internal inline fuse holders with appropriate surge friendly T-fuses rated just above the primary 240v AC and secondary 24v AC currents,
taking into account worst case cold startup and running current draw.

That R+D took a few minutes extra, to measure, test and verify by cooking two sacrificial fuses which clapped out at the calculated point where they should, with no losses whilst intact at normal operation.   

That deal would have cost Weller 50? cents or less to implement on all their wares, and this EEVblog post might be active in a darker alternate unviverse perhaps, instead of here. 

Don't get me started why I opened up the solder station in the first place to find out why the unit was intermittent in operation,
and notice zero fuse protection on top. No one would believe it, I should have taken photos...

Anyways, my Weller now rocks and I don't have to think about it going barbeque,
unless I fall asleep soldering in bed... 


Suggest to owners to fuse both sides, it may save you a bundle especially if a repair being soldered becomes live or charged whilst soldering, or the base station drops on concrete,
or thrown at a zombie 

i.e. a coupla bucks for a fuse or two and back in business   


Hey, does this post mean a lot of unfused Wellers will now get flogged off dirt cheap ? 
You can never have too many Wellers, I will wait for the panic sellling to start 

 

[MrMobodies]

From what the vice president wrote it sounds like they're all embarrassed.
I find a little odd:

"Dear sir,"
Formal.

"Kindest regards,"
Informal.

[WN1X]

Weller reply to your letter had all the signs of artificial intelligence. 

I disagree...Weller's reply had all the signs of marketing "intelligence" 

[TheDane]

I have a crazy idea for you. It will make you much happier, which will result in you being healthier.

STOP READING PAPERS AND NUTRITION WEBSITES.

Thanks, and make sure to inhale the smoke deep into your lungs 
Here is another great movie about smoking I can recommend to watch - Thank you for smoking

[joeqsmith]

Weller reply to your letter had all the signs of artificial intelligence. 
Weller tombstone mentality and an automated complaints procedure 
looks like saving pennies, is more important than paying humans to reply to your letter.

here is another example of tombstone mentality to save some pennies on redesign & product recalls.

tombstone mentality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tombstone_mentality

remington rifle tombstone mentality
remington rifle trigger problems
Remington rifle and a problem with them firing by themselves.
https://www.fieldandstream.com/answers/guns/rifles/i-heard-something-about-remington-700s-and-a-problem-with-them-firing-by

https://xmprecall.remington.com/

example of tombstone mentality


Remington Under Fire: CNBC Investigation
Remington rifle and a problem with them firing by themselves.
remington rifle trigger problems cost pennies pur unit to fix.   a trigger redesign & product recall.

I belonged to a small club where we would have a competition once a week.  There were different events, some for handguns, some shot guns...  I remember one event I attended was for a center fire, couple hundred yard.   You get five rounds while standing, kneeling and prone, or 15 total.  It's a timed event.  I decided to bring my 700 that I had owned since my youth.  During the event I chambered a round and the gun fired.   Basically I was locking the bolt.  Safety plays a HUGE part at these events.  Barrels are ALWAYS pointed down range.  Guns are on the benches with their bolts open and flagged and no one next to them before anyone is allowed down range.   Under the circumstances, the risk was low but it could have played out much differently.    I fitted it with a Timney. 

I checked my serial number and it was not on their recall list. 

[cdev]

It's a really great movie. I like "Bananas" a lot too.

Haha! That was funny. I'm going to go find that movie.

[Robaroni]

OK, how many stations has Weller sold over the years? A lot. How many stations have failed because someone plugged them into the wrong voltage? I'll bet a lot less. They complied to the standards, maybe people who are upset should go after the standards - and good luck with that!

If I plugged my station into twice the working voltage I'd be too embarrassed to tell anyone. And how did that happen, aren't their plug standards and differences? what country was it and why did it happen?

My Weller station is fused and I'd have to work to plug it into 230v, I'm still scratching my head. I need more info, more details but the last people I'm blaming is Weller, they complied.
 
When I was a kid we a had radio called the "All American 5", everyone had one. It had 5 tubes and the filament voltage added up to 121 volts. 12,12,12,35,50 was the working filament voltage for each of the 5 tubes. No input transformer, no isolation from mains. If you plugged the mains in one way the chassis was hot, if you touched a pipe or earth ground you got zapped. I used to work in a TV repair shop back then and I got nailed more than once. The manufacturers were following code, you can't blame them, blame the code, fix the code if you're pissed.

[Fungus]

How many stations have failed because someone plugged them into the wrong voltage?

Not many, but there was a case recently... 

And how did that happen, aren't their plug standards and differences? what country was it and why did it happen?

The IEC connector on the back is an international standard. People just tend to grab an IEC cable from their bench and plug things in.

(maybe we can blame IEC for not designing different shape plugs for different voltages, plus another one for multi-voltage devices)

My Weller station is fused

So... Weller does know how to put fuses in things. 

[Mr. Scram]

Apparently all the German designed Wellers are fused. Figures.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1160-weller-responds/msg2051380/#msg2051380

[David Hess]

OK, how many stations has Weller sold over the years? A lot. How many stations have failed because someone plugged them into the wrong voltage?

From my personal experience?  *counting* 1 out of 6.

[Grapsus]

The wrong voltage is beside the point, it's just the circumstance in which we discovered that those stations lack a safety feature that, even if not legally required, might be expected in lab equipment sold by a reputable manufacturer.

The stupidity of the whole situation is intensified by several factors:
 

• they use a detachable IEC socket that doesn't discriminate against different voltages
• the power cord is not provided (source: amazon comments and Farnell listing "Kit Contents")
• industrial environment is harsh and overvoltages may occur for different reasons, safety margins above regulations are expected (cf Fluke, Agilent etc.)
• the cost of the safety feature in question is negligible and it is a premium product with high margins
• in 2018 goods and services are sold and exchanged globally

[Zucca]

You crack me up, as if this topic wasn't already hilarious enough!

When I was living in USA, Greenville, SC one day coming back from work I noticed there was no Internet service/Wifi.
4 minutes later I discovered the Charter Modem had the Main PSU AC120VAC/DC Unit melted, and the lights in my apartment were acting funny.
5 Minutes later I checked the main voltage with my Fluke 87V: 230VAC on the US 110VAC wall sockets!
6 Minutes later I disconnectted my entire apartment with the main switch.

Duke Energy had to fix a transformer for my area.

We need a main fuse and there is nothing hilarious in this topic, that melted Charter PSU could have started a fire.

Safety seems always funny until something bad happens.

[Dataforensics]

For what its worth my very old Weller PS-3D power supply has a user accessible primary fuse specified on the labelling as 0.315A. This is a 50VA 240V/24V 50Hz unit as labelled.

[PartialDischarge]

5 Minutes later I checked the main voltage with my Fluke 87V: 230VAC on the US 110VAC wall sockets!

Years ago, in my area, electricity went out, then came as 380V instead of 220V, someone connected phase-phase instead of phase-neutral....  and all for the same price

[Fungus]

5 Minutes later I checked the main voltage with my Fluke 87V: 230VAC on the US 110VAC wall sockets!

Years ago, in my area, electricity went out, then came as 380V instead of 220V, someone connected phase-phase instead of phase-neutral....  and all for the same price

Not a good day to be using a Weller soldering iron.

[eugenenine]

We need a main fuse and there is nothing hilarious in this topic, that melted Charter PSU could have started a fire.

But it didn't start a fire, which is the whole point of the UL testing.

Really the IEC plug should be different, the one with the notch should be used for  ~120v only devices and the one without the notch for ~220 v devices so that you can't plug a 220 cord into a 110 device.

[Zucca]

But it didn't start a fire, which is the whole point of the UL testing.

So melting a PSU is safe and approved? mmmm thanks I did not know.
Anyway that smoke out from the Weller could have triggerd a smoke detector... you know what can happen next.

Just put a fuse and done with it. Regardless what the laws/testing/conformity says it should be a no brainer.

Really the IEC plug should be different, the one with the notch should be used for  ~120v only devices and the one without the notch for ~220 v devices so that you can't plug a 220 cord into a 110 device.

I agree but a fuse is more safe than a notch.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

All marketing wank. Example vacuum cleaner: ...vacuum has a powerful 10 amp motor!
It has nothing to do with the ability to suck (or suck). Buzzwords that are meaningless.

A 120V station is a feature? So I guess by that definition a 230V one is a deficit?

This isn't the 1940's 50's, 60's, 70's etc. where nothing consumer was fused.

Fix your blunder/cost cutting measures and thermally and electrically fuse as well as put the MOV's on the primary side AFTER THE FUSE. Wankers. I haven't bought or recommended Weller for anything professional (or hobbyist) in forever. As I said.. Wankers all.

[FrankBuss]

Weller reply to your letter had all the signs of artificial intelligence. 
Weller tombstone mentality and an automated complaints procedure 
looks like saving pennies, is more important than paying humans to reply to your letter.

No, it is genuine marketing speak

[timelessbeing]

So melting a PSU is safe and approved?

Should I post it again?

[Zucca]

Should I post it again?

Yes you did.
To me it's all super easy: put a fuse and move on safely.

[cdev]

When people buy a brand like Weller they are paying substantially more for an item thats functionally very similar to items one can buy on ebay for literally a quarter or less of what they charge.

We all know that to be true.

The cheaper products used to be - rightfully- associated with shoddy construction and inadequate safety protections. As discussed a great deal here. But thanks to outspoken articulate users, things have improved somewhat.

We now expect even those cheap products to be rising in quality and safety, and they are. Everybody - or almost everybody- has been benefiting from the process.

So I think thats why its particularly distressing that what amounts to a name brand - Weller - a brand we have all recommended to new buyers as almost certain to be safe, now doesn't have this $1 fuse.

Even if it is legal for them to leave it out, as it seems to be, its more than a symbolic gesture as shown by what happened when the power was exceeded. 

Also, by leaving it out they are throwing away a good argument many used to justify spending more, getting a product that is certain to be safe. We can argue until we're blue in the face over whether a transformer with no fuse can be safe, but the fact is common sense is telling a lot of people its stupid, even if it is legal.

[Robaroni]

What makes sense to me, what I do, is always check new instruments. This wasn't a mains problem. I always look to see, even here in the US with standard cords, if there is a 120/240/ switch  on the back. Especially since companies like Keysight, TTI, R&S, Tektronix, etc. sell products all over the world.

As far as my bench goes, I run off inverters from my PV system which are better AC than the grid. If I didn't have inverters I would run dedicated supplies to feed my VERY EXPENSIVE instruments. My rural grid has been known to surge during storms etc. I never take a chance and I get the benefit of lower stray noise.

So maybe the lesson here is to check your new instruments AND buffer the grid if you think it will pump high voltage or spikes into your instruments. We can gab here about how company 'A' should have done this or that but isn't the best solution to do it yourself? To not take any chances, aren't we supposed to be versed in electronics? Shouldn't we know better?

[Robaroni]

When people buy a brand like Weller they are paying substantially more for an item thats functionally very similar to items one can buy on ebay for literally a quarter or less of what they charge.

We all know that to be true.

I don't agree with that! You want to compare a cheapo solder sucker to my Edsyn? Not even close. You want to compare a Chinese to my Weller? I've had both, the Chinese cost me a few hundred bucks, not even that cheap, the iron cord twisted on it one day and blew the circuit board out. It took me several hours to fix it and the quality was horrible. It's a hobby station.

If you're a hobbyist, fine by all means buy cheapo stuff but don't think it comes up to the level of Keysight.