EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds

[cdev]

Smoke from virtually all plastics is extremely unhealthy, even if its not recognized to be so yet, innumerable dangerous chemicals were just grandfathered in with no testing because they have been used for a long time.

The world of plastics is a ticking time bomb especially because of so called endocrine disrupting chemicals comminly used in many of them that persist in and build up in the environment and in people, causing cryptic effects related to many aspects of our biology.. particularly those that are hormonally related. (The list of serious - in many cases - like cancers, life threatening conditions which seem to be rising because of these chemicals is very long.)

Increasing exposure to these chemicals which in many cases were known to be unhealthy before they started being used commonly, is known to be causing a plethora of extremely costly health conditions throughout the entire world as the amounts of them in peoples bodies increases. (see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5244983/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27003928

Also, "flame retardants" used to slow down combustion in many products are a set of chemicals that contains some extremely nasty chemicals many of which that have known, serious health effects, also they persist in the body and its exceedingly hard to get rid of them.

Like many plasticizers, many flame retardants also cause endocrine disruption.

It seems that rising exposure to EDCs is also behind some substantial amount of the rising rates of metabolic disorders (many) and obesity we're seeing, as obesity and related health issues in both animals and humans clearly increase in direct proportion to obesogen exposure to both the animal/person and its mother, in other words, for some reason we don't understand this exposure's obesogenic effect is inherited. 

They change the body's energy set points.

All of this is the subject of a great deal of research right now and what is emerging isn't good. Its terrifying. It threatens both human and animal reproduction.

Because of exposure to various chemicals, as a group electronics industry workers are at substantially increased risk it seems.

Example search: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=endocrine+disruption+electronics

For this reason people should do as much as they can to reduce or eliminate their exposure to whatever can be reduced, such as fumes generated by hot plastics and other substances used in electronics. Also minimize dermal exposure by washing hands frequently. Minimize dust in the environment by vacuuming with a HEPA vacuum while aggressively ventilating to minimize inhaling dusts. It might even make sense to wear a high quality (I wear a magenta P-100 half face HEPA particulate filter face mask) while doing so, thats what I do.

 

[floobydust]

How about an EEVblog survey on the Weller WE1010NA primary-fuse issue?

1. It's missing the fuse, fix it already - humans make mistakes
2. It doesn't require the fuse, leave the product design and certification as-is, and spank the engineers
3. Include a complimentary fire extinguisher with every Weller product
4. Instead buy a Hakko/Metcal which has already has the fuse
5. Pull a Volkswagen and deny any allegations for months
6. Announce the new "vape" option where you can smoke in the lab with this station

[fsr]

"will reduce potential hazards"... except, you know.... fire hazards

[Robaroni]

How about an EEVblog survey on the Weller WE1010NA primary-fuse issue?

1. It's missing the fuse, fix it already - humans make mistakes
2. It doesn't require the fuse, leave the product design and certification as-is, and spank the engineers
3. Include a complimentary fire extinguisher with every Weller product
4. Instead buy a Hakko/Metcal which has already has the fuse
5. Pull a Volkswagen and deny any allegations for months
6. Announce the new "vape" option where you can smoke in the lab with this station

You crack me up, as if this topic wasn't already hilarious enough!

[cdev]

Since a lot of people have them why not post an easy to follow set of instructions on where and how to add ones own, with the arguments for doing it even if they are technically 'legal' without it?

[EEVblog]

They were drafting an electrical safety standard. Not a convenience standard.

This thread has nothing to do with "standards",

It doesn't? Weller claims it's a certified product and complies to applicable standards. So the that begs the question if that's correct or not.

I have no doubt it.

[timelessbeing]

minimize dermal exposure ...Minimize dust ... aggressively ventilating to minimize inhaling dusts... wear a magenta P-100 half face HEPA particulate filter face mask

absolutely.  Of course don't forget about eye gear ... gotta protect those peepers from solder splashes. Might as well wear a full face mask. You should probably wear gloves too for the dermatitis. Ah, you know what. Why stop there? Might as well do it right ...

[timelessbeing]

They change the body's energy set points.

I heard that exposure to dihydrogen monoxide can cause asphyxiation, tissue damage, and is a major contributor to acid rain.
Ingesting it upsets your hydration balance and makes you less thirsty!

[cdev]

I'm just explaining how I try to minimize inhaling dust - I'm just sharing that fact.

My home isnt an electronics factory nor do I solder that much I am sure compared to lots of other people here. Still I try and especially if I did more of it I would REALLy try to minimize exposure to things commonly encountered, such as heated or burning plastic fumes - or whatever.. fluxes, various dusts..

Yes, it makes sense for workers to get the best practicable protection. For a manufacturer, that would mean efforts to reduce dust and solvent exposures exhausting any fumes and dust outside and replacing that air with fresh air, and wearing non-latex gloves if they were handling dangerous materials. Not being around plastics that were getting hot. (even if they are supposed to be able to handle the temperature, personally I don't think thats healthy)

And washing hands.

Many of the chemicals and materials used in electronics at all stages of the product life cycle are hazardous to varying degrees. That's commonly known. Its not speculation. Common sense dictates that people use adequate measures to protect themselves.

minimize dermal exposure ...Minimize dust ... aggressively ventilating to minimize inhaling dusts... wear a magenta P-100 half face HEPA particulate filter face mask

absolutely.  Of course don't forget about eye gear ... gotta protect those peepers from solder splashes. Might as well wear a full face mask. You should probably wear gloves too for the dermatitis. Ah, you know what. Why stop there? Might as well do it right ...

[cdev]

Water is essential to human life while rising levels of EDCs threaten it's continuation. They add up in so called 'cocktail effects' so what are claimed to be safe levels of one become unsafe in the real world environment because there are dozens of them.

With the links I posted higher up you can judge for yourself.

They change the body's energy set points.

I heard that exposure to dihydrogen monoxide can cause asphyxiation, tissue damage, and is a major contributor to acid rain.
Ingesting it upsets your hydration balance and makes you less thirsty!

[floobydust]

They were drafting an electrical safety standard. Not a convenience standard.

This thread has nothing to do with "standards",

It doesn't? Weller claims it's a certified product and complies to applicable standards. So the that begs the question if that's correct or not.

I have no doubt it.

I'm also questioning the safety standard. UL 499 originated in 1931 so it's got a huge legacy.
A problem with zillions of safety standards is having a zillion committees and as the years get along, the standards are different and miss coverage of certain faults and unsafe scenarios.

Why should a product with a power transformer have such different requirements whether in a soldering station, clock radio, stereo, control panel, bench multimeter etc. ?

[Robaroni]

minimize dermal exposure ...Minimize dust ... aggressively ventilating to minimize inhaling dusts... wear a magenta P-100 half face HEPA particulate filter face mask

absolutely.  Of course don't forget about eye gear ... gotta protect those peepers from solder splashes. Might as well wear a full face mask. You should probably wear gloves too for the dermatitis. Ah, you know what. Why stop there? Might as well do it right ...

I got one of those suits. My neighbor started shooting at me - he thought I was an alien. I figured I'm safer just breathing all the crap I'm bombarded with on a daily basis.
By the way I've been soldering, welding, machining and grinding for 6 decades. My doctor told me I'm in the top 1% of healthiest people he sees. My advice.... keep breathing and eat lots of vegetables.

[Muttley Snickers]

I'm also questioning the safety standard. UL 499 originated in 1931 so it's got a huge legacy.

And it probably wouldn't have provided for or taken into account that one day products and equipment would be readily available for anyone to purchase from anywhere else. Nowadays with global shopping and shipping this should perhaps be a consideration with all electrical products to avoid these types of hazards.

[Robaroni]

I'm also questioning the safety standard. UL 499 originated in 1931 so it's got a huge legacy.

And it probably wouldn't have provided for or taken into account that one day products and equipment would be readily available for anyone to purchase from anywhere else. Nowadays with global shopping and shipping this should perhaps be a consideration with all electrical products to avoid these types of hazards.

Or you could just plug it into the correct voltage....

[cdev]

What's happening is international harmonization, downward.

Countries with higher standards are being pushed to lower them.

https://www.ciel.org/issues/toxics

https://www.ciel.org/issues/trade

https://www.ciel.org/reports

I'm also questioning the safety standard. UL 499 originated in 1931 so it's got a huge legacy.

And it probably wouldn't have provided for or taken into account that one day products and equipment would be readily available for anyone to purchase from anywhere else. Nowadays with global shopping and shipping this should perhaps be a consideration with all electrical products to avoid these types of hazards.

[coppercone2]

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[cdev]

Note- this is a general principle, not specifically about any one product, but important to know- For pregnant ladies and their unborn children a great many pro-oxidant substances may pose substantial additive risks due to Fyn and c-Cbl at levels commonly found in everyday environments.

N-acetyl-cysteine may prevent it. Everybody should take NAC because our glutathione is getting used up quicker in many environments now than it was in the past, with potentially life changing consequences.

Read the linked paper. It's about a basic principle that should be widely known but isn't.

People can verify what I am saying at sites like nutrition.org (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition)

[boB]

I'm also questioning the safety standard. UL 499 originated in 1931 so it's got a huge legacy.
A problem with zillions of safety standards is having a zillion committees and as the years get along, the standards are different and miss coverage of certain faults and unsafe scenarios.

Why should a product with a power transformer have such different requirements whether in a soldering station, clock radio, stereo, control panel, bench multimeter etc. ?

That's not how that "mafia" operates....

UL wouldn't be able to make all that money if they had just one standard OR didn't make people pay a LOT for the newer and updated standards.

You can be sure that UL 499 was updated fairly recently and make everybody buy the new version !

[timelessbeing]

hi there leukemia

bye bone marrow

Yup, you're definitely gonna die.

Better just buy your quarantine bubble now.

[timelessbeing]

a great many pro-oxidant substances may pose substantial additive risks due to  .... blah blah ... N-acetyl-cysteine  ... blah ... Everybody should take NAC because ... Read the linked paper. ...  sites like nutrition.org (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition) ... blah

I have a crazy idea for you. It will make you much happier, which will result in you being healthier.

STOP READING PAPERS AND NUTRITION WEBSITES.

[coppercone2]

yes if you lose your shit and can't filter information its a good idea to isolate yourself

how is this relevant to not inhaling burning dielectric materials and metal smoke? if you stick your nose into that smoke stream your gonna feel severely ill and cough up a lung. real quick. its not the difference between drinking chai tea and lipton, its fucking plastic smoke. This shit is completely obvious look at the fire service statistics.

[jonovid]

Weller reply to your letter had all the signs of artificial intelligence. 
Weller tombstone mentality and an automated complaints procedure 
looks like saving pennies, is more important than paying humans to reply to your letter.

here is another example of tombstone mentality to save some pennies on redesign & product recalls.

tombstone mentality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tombstone_mentality

remington rifle tombstone mentality
remington rifle trigger problems
Remington rifle and a problem with them firing by themselves.
https://www.fieldandstream.com/answers/guns/rifles/i-heard-something-about-remington-700s-and-a-problem-with-them-firing-by

https://xmprecall.remington.com/

example of tombstone mentality


Remington Under Fire: CNBC Investigation
Remington rifle and a problem with them firing by themselves.
remington rifle trigger problems cost pennies pur unit to fix.   a trigger redesign & product recall.

[rsjsouza]

What was the price tier level of the unit?

The bottom of the barrel of their product line, which is still much more expensive than the actual bottom of the barrel. Heck, I have a Hakko FX888 that was 60% of the price of this unit and is rock solid (and has a fuse!  )

I'm running the fused pro station.

That is a very nice unit, and I would be quite surprised if Weller cut that kind of corner on this model - that is why it was so frustrating to see them hiding behind a technicality instead of priding themselves in producing a tool with at least such basic safeguard.
 

[timelessbeing]

if you stick your nose into that smoke stream your gonna feel severely ill

  Yeah you probably would.

By the way, picturing someone stick their nose into a cloud of plastic smoke made me literally laugh out loud.

[cdev]

I have a crazy idea for you. It will make you much happier, which will result in you being healthier.

STOP READING PAPERS AND NUTRITION WEBSITES.