eevBLAB#15 - The Martian Movie Review

[mikerj]

NOTE: Spoiler-ish stuff below.

1) The suit heads up display showed pressure in PSI. NASA don't use no stinkin' Imperial units!

Someone should have told the Mars Climate Orbiter team...

[VK3DRB]

I just watched it yesterday and I must say that although I was having very good time for 2+ hours in the cinema I feel that praising this movie for being "scientific" or "plausible" is a bit too much.

Apart from the dust storm, the rest is pretty plausible

The rest was plausible? Not much of it was plausible if you look closely. For example, why would they have a cart being wheeled away with solid heavy wheels on it? A high school hobbyist could design a a better vehicle. And the magical gravity on board the spaceship that even affected hair... complete rubbish. But the biggest disappointment was the film was boring, having little depth beyond that of a corn syrup sugar hit from the an American breakfast serial. It will be a movie soon forgotten, like most modern Hollywood films. The only thing missing was a cop car CB talk in the distant background with a "breaker breaker one nine" as he returned to earth. Almost as nauseating at the sugar hit film Gravity.

The 1968 film 2001: A Space Odyssey left this crap film for dead, but then again so does Bad Boy Bubby. 

[Noise Floor]

I just watched it yesterday and I must say that although I was having very good time for 2+ hours in the cinema I feel that praising this movie for being "scientific" or "plausible" is a bit too much.

Apart from the dust storm, the rest is pretty plausible

The rest was plausible? Not much of it was plausible if you look closely. For example, why would they have a cart being wheeled away with solid heavy wheels on it? A high school hobbyist could design a a better vehicle. And the magical gravity on board the spaceship that even affected hair... complete rubbish. But the biggest disappointment was the film was boring, having little depth beyond that of a corn syrup sugar hit from the an American breakfast serial. It will be a movie soon forgotten, like most modern Hollywood films. The only thing missing was a cop car CB talk in the distant background with a "breaker breaker one nine" as he returned to earth. Almost as nauseating at the sugar hit film Gravity.

The 1968 film 2001: A Space Odyssey left this crap film for dead, but then again so does Bad Boy Bubby. 

We will never see a "scientific" movie blockbuster that will meet your ideals.  It appears many of us are so starved for something we embrace what we get.

[LabSpokane]

Could someone direct me to the science in the movie?  I just got out of the 3D movie due to a demand by the spousal unit.  It was funny mostly, and a good movie.  But everybody is gaga over the "science."  What science? 

- How in the *&^! did live potatoes get sent to Mars?  Mars is effectively a quarantine zone.  There's no way those would be sent there without sterilizing them.  One of the main precepts guiding Mars exploration is that things that come from Earth do *NOT* end up growing on Mars. 

- How does one make a replacement hatch out of plastic sheeting?  The force on that 7' diameter door at 12 psi is over 66,000 lbf.  I'm sorry, but plastic sheeting and duct tape don't cut it.  There's a reason hatches in space ships look like bank vault doors. 

- How does one jump into a spacesuit at 4 psi from a 12 psi N2/O2 environment without pre-breathing O2 and not get the bends? 

- How does one survive on Mars with a space suit that does not inflate?

- How does one grow spuds indoors without direct sunlight and lots of it?

- How does sound from a spaceship travel in a vacuum?

- How much did GoPro pay to have their freaking camera EVERYWHERE?  After a while, it just got ridiculous.  There's product placement, then there's stupid. 

- What is with the fear over RTGs?  They are safe as long as the enclosure is intact.  Why cover it with mylar?  It's already shielded. 

These are but a few of the things that mystify me.

The movie was not nearly as bad as the book.  It was fine as a great sci fi movie that relies on grit and brainpower instead the usual Hollywood "mass murder will solve all problems" genre.  So, I really liked it from that aspect.

[coppice]

- How in the *&^! did live potatoes get sent to Mars?  Mars is effectively a quarantine zone.  There's no way those would be sent there without sterilizing them.  One of the main precepts guiding Mars exploration is that things that come from Earth do *NOT* end up growing on Mars. 

So all the things which are contained in the habitat, and which strictly avoid contact with the outside environment, would need to be sterilised? I think fully sterilised humans aren't going to be particularly useful on Mars.

[mtdoc]

- How in the *&^! did live potatoes get sent to Mars?  Mars is effectively a quarantine zone.  There's no way those would be sent there without sterilizing them.  One of the main precepts guiding Mars exploration is that things that come from Earth do *NOT* end up growing on Mars. 

So all the things which are contained in the habitat, and which strictly avoid contact with the outside environment, would need to be sterilised? I think fully sterilised humans aren't going to be particularly useful on Mars.

Yes, this.  Humans are teeming with bacteria and human life depends on it. 

Also, what is a sterilized potatoe? One with no bacteria on its skin? Even if so that would not prevent it from growing. The presence of the potatoes and a small amount of earth soil (i.e. Non-sterile, living soil) was explained in the book and completely plausible. Whether Martian "dirt" would support growth of potatoes even after innoculation with earth soil and human excrement is another question- but not totally inplausible IMHO.

[TSL]

Whether Martian "dirt" would support growth of potatoes even after innoculation with earth soil and human excrement is another question- but not totally inplausible IMHO.

It would grow spuds with a little effort. One  study shows that martian soil has almost identical makeup to that found in Iceland.

https://theconversation.com/can-you-grow-potatoes-on-mars-48018

[mtdoc]

Whether Martian "dirt" would support growth of potatoes even after innoculation with earth soil and human excrement is another question- but not totally inplausible IMHO.

It would grow spuds with a little effort. One  study shows that martian soil has almost identical makeup to that found in Iceland.

https://theconversation.com/can-you-grow-potatoes-on-mars-48018

Interesting link, thanks. So Martian dirt has the right minerals.  I'm no soil scientist ( though i used to date one!) but I do grow some potatoes and i believe soil needs more than the right minerals and introduced bacteria. I believe it needs humus and other organic matter to be fertile.  But, as i said, i didn't find that part of the story completely inplausible.

[GNU_Ninja]

Went to see this on Saturday, it was ok. But seriously; Sean Bean, cast as a NASA administrator, what were you thinking Ridley 

[VK3DRB]

- How does sound from a spaceship travel in a vacuum?

Yep, one of my pet dislikes, but tolerable. I just pretend there is enough gas emission for the molecules to vibrate at sonic frequencies. But when American Hollywood bozos send background random beep noises as data is output to a monitor, I simply get up and walk out of a cinema, because it is guaranteed to be movie with a crap ending designed to steal your money and a couple of hours of you life.

Americans do make some excellent Sci Fi movies though... Fail Safe made in 1964 (well it is science and it is fiction, but not necessarily Sci Fi). Profound concept, script and acting, second to none. My favourite of all time.

Of course, there is Philadelphia Experiment, Time After Time, Back the the Future, The Day the Earth Stood Still and When Worlds Collide ... I lighten up on those. Hollywood used to make good Sci Fi films. I think good stories these days have been replaced by cheap thrills. I don't think Hollywood could make a film like the German film The Lives of Others, or the Russian classic Come And See, or the film Ghandi.

[LabSpokane]

- How in the *&^! did live potatoes get sent to Mars?  Mars is effectively a quarantine zone.  There's no way those would be sent there without sterilizing them.  One of the main precepts guiding Mars exploration is that things that come from Earth do *NOT* end up growing on Mars. 

So all the things which are contained in the habitat, and which strictly avoid contact with the outside environment, would need to be sterilised? I think fully sterilised humans aren't going to be particularly useful on Mars.

Yes, this.  Humans are teeming with bacteria and human life depends on it. 

Also, what is a sterilized potatoe? One with no bacteria on its skin? Even if so that would not prevent it from growing. The presence of the potatoes and a small amount of earth soil (i.e. Non-sterile, living soil) was explained in the book and completely plausible. Whether Martian "dirt" would support growth of potatoes even after innoculation with earth soil and human excrement is another question- but not totally inplausible IMHO.

What I also meant but neglected to state, was that for the potatoes to keep, they would need to be essentially dead.  My potatoes tend to grow eyes and turn green at room temperature. I have a difficult time believing under current policies that a responsible space agency would deliberately send living organic matter (humans and their nastiness aside) to Mars

And yes, humans are a major source of contamination. That's the other thing that's troublesome with all plans to send humans to Mars including this movie. In order to study Mars as Mars exists, there will need to be some very stringent decontamination regimens exiting the spacecraft / habitat.

There is, in fact, an international treaty prohibiting anyone from sending a device near a Martian water source "harmfully contaminating" another world.  NASA's policy is to not send rovers near any potential, known water source on Mars. And interestingly, this is because of the difficulty in conclusively decontaminating a device without destroying it. Humans in spacesuits will be far more challenging to decontaminate.

See: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/searching-for-life-in-martian-water-will-be-very-very-tricky/

[EEVblog]

Yep, one of my pet dislikes, but tolerable. I just pretend there is enough gas emission for the molecules to vibrate at sonic frequencies. But when American Hollywood bozos send background random beep noises as data is output to a monitor, I simply get up and walk out of a cinema, because it is guaranteed to be movie with a crap ending designed to steal your money and a couple of hours of you life.

Sounds like you wouldn't enjoy 99% of movies at the cinema. I feel sorry for you.

[EEVblog]

The movie was not nearly as bad as the book.

Bingo. Therein lies your answer. You didn't like the book, ergo you didn't like the movie.
Funny how practically everyone at NASA and every engineer, scientist and tech person you talk to loved the book and the movie.
Neither are perfect, but they are refreshing.
My advice, chill a little on the details 

[EEVblog]

I watched this last night:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranded_(2001_film)

If you want to know how bad The Martian could have been x100, watch this.

[olewales]

- How in the *&^! did live potatoes get sent to Mars?  Mars is effectively a quarantine zone.  There's no way those would be sent there without sterilizing them.  One of the main precepts guiding Mars exploration is that things that come from Earth do *NOT* end up growing on Mars. 

Well, Mark Watney is a botanist. I guess NASA had some experiments planned if he was sent to Mars

- How does one make a replacement hatch out of plastic sheeting?  The force on that 7' diameter door at 12 psi is over 66,000 lbf.  I'm sorry, but plastic sheeting and duct tape don't cut it.  There's a reason hatches in space ships look like bank vault doors. 

This also struck me hard when I saw it. But, not having knowledge necessary to do the maths myself I assumed that maybe this is one of the things that are unbelievable, yet possible. The balloon "extension" to the rover is basically the same deal.

Also, if this thread became spoiler heavy anyway, why exactly Watney could not plant potatoes again after airlock explosion and repair? Maybe this was explained in more detail in the book but in a movie its a bit of a plot hole.
 

[coppice]

- How in the *&^! did live potatoes get sent to Mars?  Mars is effectively a quarantine zone.  There's no way those would be sent there without sterilizing them.  One of the main precepts guiding Mars exploration is that things that come from Earth do *NOT* end up growing on Mars. 

Well, Mark Watney is a botanist. I guess NASA had some experiments planned if he was sent to Mars

- How does one make a replacement hatch out of plastic sheeting?  The force on that 7' diameter door at 12 psi is over 66,000 lbf.  I'm sorry, but plastic sheeting and duct tape don't cut it.  There's a reason hatches in space ships look like bank vault doors. 

This also struck me hard when I saw it. But, not having knowledge necessary to do the maths myself I assumed that maybe this is one of the things that are unbelievable, yet possible. The balloon "extension" to the rover is basically the same deal.

Also, if this thread became spoiler heavy anyway, why exactly Watney could not plant potatoes again after airlock explosion and repair? Maybe this was explained in more detail in the book but in a movie its a bit of a plot hole.

It wasn't so much the way he sealed it that struck me as wrong. It was that he simply trusted it. A failure would have been certain death. The storms howled and the plastic sheet flapped around, and he seemed OK with that. Any rational person, after finding the sheet had sealed adequately, would have been shoring it up, perhaps with a soil bank outside, to ensure it remained stable.

As for not replanting, I think the plants were supposed to have frozen so badly they all died. However, he should have had some of the potatoes in his larder, so he should have had something to restart with.

[LabSpokane]

The movie was not nearly as bad as the book.

Bingo. Therein lies your answer. You didn't like the book, ergo you didn't like the movie.
Funny how practically everyone at NASA and every engineer, scientist and tech person you talk to loved the book and the movie.
Neither are perfect, but they are refreshing.
My advice, chill a little on the details 

Normally, I just enjoy fiction books and movies as "storytime" and ignore the details.  The Martian book and movie are the exceptions because I keep hearing that they are so good *because of all the great, realistic detail*.  So, when I read the first thirtysome pages of the book and while at the movie, I could not help but consider the details.  And the details are strange to say the least. 

I did find the movie to be very *entertaining* and laughed a lot.  See the movie for the entertainment value, and one won't be disappointed.    My favorite character was the "astrogator" who worked on the orbital mechanics.  They channeled the best of the irreverent genius of now late Robert Farquhar and added some of their own spice to the mix. 

I also very much enjoyed the depiction of the members of the Chinese space program as our comrades.  Showing the public science's true collaborative nature was fantastic, and I liked that aspect. 

I will argue that NASA loves the book and the movie simply because it's the best advertising for continuing funding they've had in very long time.  The movie promotion has almost literally been a joint venture of the studio and NASA.  And that's fine.  I vastly prefer funding peaceful space exploration than most everything else our government funds, but let us call this promotion what it is:  advertising. 

[alsetalokin4017]

I want some of those NASA scissors that will cut anything from reinforced dome material to multilayer EVA suits, like a knife through butter.

[GNU_Ninja]

I want some of those NASA scissors that will cut anything from reinforced dome material to multilayer EVA suits, like a knife through butter.

Check these out: http://www.telkominternational.com/scissors-kevlar-ceramic.html 

[EEVblog]

It wasn't so much the way he sealed it that struck me as wrong. It was that he simply trusted it. A failure would have been certain death. The storms howled and the plastic sheet flapped around, and he seemed OK with that. Any rational person, after finding the sheet had sealed adequately, would have been shoring it up, perhaps with a soil bank outside, to ensure it remained stable.

You obviously don't have The Right Stuff 

[EEVblog]

Normally, I just enjoy fiction books and movies as "storytime" and ignore the details.  The Martian book and movie are the exceptions because I keep hearing that they are so good *because of all the great, realistic detail*.

You are missing the reason why people say these things about the book (and the movie). It's not because it's 100% technically accurate and written by a Nobel prize winner in every field possible. Its just because of "The Vibe" (Australian joke, not sure it translates into Yankee)

[LabSpokane]

Normally, I just enjoy fiction books and movies as "storytime" and ignore the details.  The Martian book and movie are the exceptions because I keep hearing that they are so good *because of all the great, realistic detail*.

You are missing the reason why people say these things about the book (and the movie). It's not because it's 100% technically accurate and written by a Nobel prize winner in every field possible. Its just because of "The Vibe."

You're absolutely correct. I never got "The Vibe" because I could telepathically sense my seventh grade literature teacher's groans and face palms over the author's wretched writing.

  (just having fun with ya Dave!)

[German_EE]

I just saw the movie tonight and whilst I enjoyed it a couple of things bugged me a little:

1) No way for the habitat or the manned rover to contact Earth. In the 1979's the lunar rover had a small dish antenna and in the 2010's we have robotic Mars rovers that communicate with satellites orbiting the planet. Not having a dish antenna on the manned rover and/or the habitat was silly.

2) I know that astronauts are supposed to have 'the right stuff' but the guy finds a decades old space probe, brings it back to the habitat, plugs in the cables and the thing bursts into life. Whatever happened to different connectors, connectors being the wrong gender, different pinouts, different voltage levels and different communication protocols between the two systems?

One other thing, am I the only person to think that the female commander of the Mars mission was hotter than fire? 

8/10

[Vgkid]

Watched it yesterday, very entertaining.

[crispy_tofu]

Watched it as well (and read the book), it was awesome. Felt sorry for the potatoes though.