eevBLAB 91 - Why Are Fluke Meters So EXPENSIVE?

[Assafl]

There are also second tier reasons people buy Fluke (and other "high value" test equipment). For example, hiring: many highly experienced service technicians will not be willing to work with subpar equipment.

They have the experience of having used low quality stuff and chasing ghosts - wrong values, phantom readings, etc. and have come to the conclusion that it isn't worth it and makes them look bad.

So they won't join a place that skimps on the "tools of the trade". If you want the best technicians (not easy to find in any case) - you want a lab that will pull them in. In some cases, a technician will join a place that builds its own test fixtures as an alternative - but not the ones that will have a room full of "Aneng".

Engineers (I think) care less - at least most of the ones I know. In fact, many times they'll see the inadequacies of their measurement tools as yet another way to practice the theory and think up a clever way to do a test. Think of all the Bob Pease Porridge articles and the way they ended up testing their circuitry at the extremes.

[EEVblog]

259K views on this video, creay! 

[Ed.Kloonk]

Must have hit a nerve.

[Fungus]

Must have hit a nerve.

All those Fluke owners on the defensive... 

[Bud]

A carpenter doesn't buy the cheapest hammer, a lumberjack doesn't buy the cheapest chainsaw.

I would love to be with you on this one but this is not what I have seen at least here in Can land. All those guys show up with the bottom of the barrel tools, the best they may carry is Dewalt. As a DYI my tools are better - Hilti, Fein, Milwaukee.

[Martin72]

They have the experience of having used low quality stuff and chasing ghosts - wrong values, phantom readings, etc. and have come to the conclusion that it isn't worth it and makes them look bad.

This is a general thing, when you´re chasing after a fault which doesn´t exist, only in your measure-equipment...
Worst case scenario.

[james_s]

A carpenter doesn't buy the cheapest hammer, a lumberjack doesn't buy the cheapest chainsaw.

I would love to be with you on this one but this is not what I have seen at least here in Can land. All those guys show up with the bottom of the barrel tools, the best they may carry is Dewalt. As a DYI my tools are better - Hilti, Fein, Milwaukee.

That might be due to the possibility of theft. When you're bringing tools you own to a jobsite, the expensive ones have a way of sprouting legs and running off.

[Becbec]

Hi i think you missed the mark here
1 all company's and sol-traders can write the cost off against  income Tax
2 one is investing in one on fortune 
3 every thing has a cost and then there is the price one pays
4 in your vid you make very good points
5 yes i am a fluke fan boy
6 my main concern is Balance & bios of the vid   
7 my background is automotive and have followed your channel all most from the beginning and in that time this is the only time you have given me a reason to say  hang on a  minute mate
Yours follower  Bec

[Shock]

Welcome to the forum, let us know what he got wrong a detailed response. His eight reasons are listed below the video in the show notes. Your 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 responses are framing statements, not arguments against his points.

Perhaps if you give good reasons against his points he will do a follow up video.

[chindi-ap]

Reasonably good battery life...
Can't remember the last time I changed the battery sort of thing.

[Fungus]

Reasonably good battery life...
Can't remember the last time I changed the battery sort of thing.

That's not exclusive to Fluke though. I've got $20 Chinese meters that have never had a battery change and those freebie DT830s go forever.

[AG6QR]

A carpenter doesn't buy the cheapest hammer, a lumberjack doesn't buy the cheapest chainsaw.

I would love to be with you on this one but this is not what I have seen at least here in Can land. All those guys show up with the bottom of the barrel tools, the best they may carry is Dewalt. As a DYI my tools are better - Hilti, Fein, Milwaukee.

Topic drift alert!

In photography I've observed that prudent professionals invest in equipment which they believe will give them a monetary payback in fairly short order. Hobbyists with means are under no such fiscal constraints, and will sometimes purchase items of beauty to satisfy their lust for gear, even when it would make no business sense. So the very best exotic gear may go to the hobbyists, while prudent working professionals generally use stuff that's very good, but not necessarily the very top of the line.

Furthermore, there are different kinds of professionals.  Photojournalists need something that's rugged, dependable, and fast, but resolution beyond what's needed for a newspaper or computer screen is wasted. Nature photographers selling huge prints of beautiful landscapes in art galleries may want superb resolution, but have less need for speed. Those who work in a portrait studio don't need weather resistance nor a wide range of focal lengths, but may value the ability to instantly beam the pictures to a computer for quick viewing on a large screen and quick completion of a sale.

Finally, not all independent professionals make optimal decisions on gear acquisition.  The ones who stay in business for a long time at least avoid decisions that would be financially ruinous, though.

Trying to steer myself back toward the Fluke meters topic, a handheld multimeter should be an almost trivial investment for any service professional, compared to the cost of a truck, for example.  Dave's video was largely talking about laboratories, military/government institutions, or other types of large institutions.  Those customers may value consistency, long product lifetime, traceability, etc. more than the lone independent appliance repairman who comes to a house to diagnose and fix a washing machine. But in my experience, most of the appliance repair people are also using a Fluke, perhaps a 100 series, or maybe a T5 or T6 type tester.

Anyway, the bigger point is that our own individual requirements and values may or may not line up so closely with the criteria used by those who chose a Fluke.

[EEVblog]

Pre-release:

[Ed.Kloonk]

You know how some people say you can't take it with you?

I'm taking my 179 with me.

[EEVblog]

You know how some people say you can't take it with you?
I'm taking my 179 with me.

Imagine archeologists digging you up in 1000 years time...

[nctnico]

Trying to steer myself back toward the Fluke meters topic, a handheld multimeter should be an almost trivial investment for any service professional, compared to the cost of a truck, for example.  Dave's video was largely talking about laboratories, military/government institutions, or other types of large institutions.  Those customers may value consistency, long product lifetime, traceability, etc. more than the lone independent appliance repairman who comes to a house to diagnose and fix a washing machine.

Still, Fluke is not the only A-brand selling multimeters. Keysight also has a large range.

[EEVblog]

Hi i think you missed the mark here
1 all company's and sol-traders can write the cost off against  income Tax
2 one is investing in one on fortune 
3 every thing has a cost and then there is the price one pays
4 in your vid you make very good points
5 yes i am a fluke fan boy
6 my main concern is Balance & bios of the vid   
7 my background is automotive and have followed your channel all most from the beginning and in that time this is the only time you have given me a reason to say  hang on a  minute mate
Yours follower  Bec

As Shock said, please elaborate on how you think I've "missed the mark"
The only thing I can take of value here is "6 my main concern is Balance & bios of the vid". What is wrong with the "balance" exactly? Yet before that you say "4 in your vid you make very good points" 

1. Tax has nothing really to do with it, you can write a cheap tool off or an expensive tool. They doesn't help explain why Fluke's cost so much.

[EEVblog]

Trying to steer myself back toward the Fluke meters topic, a handheld multimeter should be an almost trivial investment for any service professional, compared to the cost of a truck, for example.  Dave's video was largely talking about laboratories, military/government institutions, or other types of large institutions.  Those customers may value consistency, long product lifetime, traceability, etc. more than the lone independent appliance repairman who comes to a house to diagnose and fix a washing machine. But in my experience, most of the appliance repair people are also using a Fluke, perhaps a 100 series, or maybe a T5 or T6 type tester.

That's likely because they used one in their appenticeship, and they have seen others use them etc. Fluke pioneered rugged high quality meters, and that's still paying brand dividends to this day though what's now approaching the third generation of users.

[Fungus]

Hi i think you missed the mark here
1 all company's and sol-traders can write the cost off against  income Tax

Huh? An expensive meter still costs them more than cheap meter.

[nctnico]

Hi i think you missed the mark here
1 all company's and sol-traders can write the cost off against  income Tax

Huh? An expensive meter still costs them more than cheap meter.

Indeed. It is not like companies have unlimited funds as some people seem to think. OTOH buying good tools often means spending less on dealing with problems caused by cheaper tools. Real life example: an engineer at one of my customers once spend half a day trying to figure out why the power supplies in a batch of equipment was out of spec. Turns out he was using a cheap-ass multimeter that reads too high when the battery voltage is getting low  From that instance alone buying a Fluke would have been more cost effective.

[Fungus]

Turns out he was using a cheap-ass multimeter that reads too high when the battery voltage is getting low  From that instance alone buying a Fluke would have been more cost effective.

Can we name and shame these multimeters? I keep seeing tales like this posted here but it's always in a "friend-of-a-friend" way, just like those urban legends.

Can anybody give examples or meters that read wrong with low battery but when the battery indicator isn't lit up?

[nctnico]

Turns out he was using a cheap-ass multimeter that reads too high when the battery voltage is getting low  From that instance alone buying a Fluke would have been more cost effective.

Can we name and shame these multimeters? I keep seeing tales like this posted here but it's always in a "friend-of-a-friend" way, just like those urban legends.

It is definitely not an urban legend; I've seen it happen myself! I'll check the type & brand if I don't forget. I'll urge the particular customer to throw the DMMs into the trash and buy good ones.

[Martin72]

I knew this on differential probes, when they get "mad" cause the battery is running low...
Little hint for fluke 87 owner:

They don´t like 9V accus.....
Most of the avaible 9V accus have a voltage of 8.4V (7x1.2V).
This voltage seems to be hard on the threshold for low bat warning on the fluke 87, after appx 15 mins after turning on, the message appears although the accu was fully charged before.
You can get it much faster, when you use the continuity test range with beep signal...
It won´t measure wrong, but it will "suddenly" switching off - most of the time, when you really don´t need it...

[AG6QR]

Can we name and shame these multimeters? I keep seeing tales like this posted here but it's always in a "friend-of-a-friend" way, just like those urban legends.

Can anybody give examples or meters that read wrong with low battery but when the battery indicator isn't lit up?

I have a cheap Cen Tech meter which gives readings as much as 70% high when the battery voltage is low.  However, the battery indicator lights up, so some people might forgive the meter.  But if you're not looking for the battery indicator, or don't know what it means, you might believe the voltage displayed by the meter.  The battery indicator is just a picture of a battery, without any explicit description that something is wrong with the battery. If you weren't particularly familiar with the meter, you might think the picture of the battery means "meter is working on battery" or "battery is good". This is a bargain basement cheap meter targeted at the kind of people who will never become particularly familiar with any meter.

My Flukes, on the other hand, refuse to display an erroneous indication.  Instead, when the battery is too low, they just display a low battery indication and don't show any numbers that might be misinterpreted.  I strongly prefer this logic.  If a meter can sense that the battery voltage is too low, it should never display an incorrect reading, but instead just flash "Lo Batt" or something like that. Or shut down completely.

Here's a link to an eBay listing of the kind of meter that misbehaves.  I see similar meters with different branding frequently -- I suspect they all share the same internals.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/123902191530?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=123902191530&targetid=1262376589336&device=c

[Cerebus]

Also since the advent of mobile phones people have been inadvertently trained to first think of battery indicators as 'gas gauges'  and not immediately think of them as warning symbols.