eevBLAB #3 - Engineers Can't Spell

[Bloch]

>remain anonymous


? I have newer been anonymous

[EEVblog]

There are 2 interpretations of the video.
1. Dave is slagging off people / Engineers who cannot spell.
2. Dave is saying that if you cannot spell then you are up against stiff competition for the job as that is part of the requirements whilst making a point about presentation of the CV.

I expect the people thumbing down are interpreting as #1.

Yes, I suspect so.
Of course it was never my intention to slag off people who can't spell, I even said it myself, I can't spell.
It's about care and attention to details, and how it does count on you resume to most employers.
I won't reject someone because they spelled a word incorrectly, but spelling and grammar does count toward my overall appraisal.
I can't interview everyone.
And yes, I do take English as a 2nd language into account.

[Macbeth]

It's about care and attention to details, and how it does count on you resume to most employers.

Tut tut. Dave, I'm pretty sure you meant your, and I really hope not you're Ok, just pulling your leg!

ETA: I also totaly agre wid you video to. No excus 4 crap CV.

[tautech]

It's about care and attention to details, and how it does count on you resume to most employers.

Tut tut. Dave, I'm pretty sure you meant your, and I really hope not you're Ok, just pulling your leg!

ETA: I also totaly agre wid you video to. No excus 4 crap CV.

Hahaha, no spellcheck will pick that up.

[radioFlash]

Wow, that thumbs down ratio, one of my biggest ever.
The amount of people who don't seem to understand the point in this video is quite staggering 

You'd be more popular with a video of you kicking a dog than criticizing poor spelling!

Of course everyone makes mistakes, but a resume for a job application is the only thing most employers ever see or know about an applicant. Employers expect that applicants will put more effort into their resume than a text message, informal email, or blog post. Poor spelling, grammar, or formatting in a resume show inattention to detail. Yes, writing a resume may be boring and tedious, but much of the work of an engineer can be boring and tedious, but it still requires great attention to detail to get right.

No, you don't need to be able to flawlessly spell every word without assistance, but you should be able to use a spell checker and proofread your resume, which is the sole artifact that you will be judged on initially!

Employers have limited time and tens to hundreds of applications to evaluate. When looking through resumes, employers are looking for reasons to eliminate applicants. They don't have time to spend on 1-2 hour interviews with every applicant, and they don't have time to hire every applicant for several months to see if they can do the job, even if they can't write a resume or have no experience.

Applicants should not expect employers to find reasons to hire them. Applicants must demonstrate that they are better suited to the job than all the other applicants out there.

An applicant going in with the attitude that "I'm so obviously good, I don't need to worry about irrelevant details" shouldn't expect much success.

[Bloch]

For me it is a new side you have showed Dave. I may have misunderstand you but i think that you told us many  stories on TheAmpHouer that it is not the resume but the project that count. And now you are weeding out for for a single spelling mistake and for not sending in a format that i can not see you did write that you did prefer. It is you company, but it is for me very surprising to me that all!


Quote from: EEVblog on Today at 10:29:56 AM>

[Macbeth]

For me it is a new side you have showed Dave. I may have misunderstand you but i think that you told us many  stories on TheAmpHouer that it is not the resume but the project that count. And now you are weeding out for for a single spelling mistake and for not sending in a format that i can not see you did write that you did prefer. It is you company, but it is for me very surprising to me that all!

I think Dave already said he had whittled the CVs down to 29 from the local community in Sydney. Your rather bad English grammar and spelling would be quite excusable seeing as you are the other side of the world being from Denmark and be taken into account. However, who on earth would fly around the globe, get the visas, etc, for what is a minimum wage ad-hoc apprentice job? Is there nothing closer to home? Who would support you in Sydney - I believe only second to London, UK as in the most crazy expensive place to live on this planet?

PS. Your English is infinitely better than my Danish! The only thing I know is you make good bacon, and "there is something rotten in the state of Denmark" (Hamlet)

[m12lrpv]

Some (hopefully) constructive criticism.

The reason you're getting thumbs down is that you really have no understanding of the current Australian job market and why you're seeing the resume's you are.

It's always DOC not PDF. A PDF resume is an instant fail because its contents won't get picked up in a keyword search used by recruiters. PDF = no job.

Because of keyword searching in resume's people now have to re-write their resume for each job they apply to. In some cases they have to remove qualifications and experience from the resume in order to get jobs. So resume's are constantly changing and job seekers now will have quite a few separate current resume's.

When you understand this you can understand that typo's and grammatical errors will creep in (although with spell checkers everywhere spelling mistakes are not excusable).

You're the exception and not the rule in your hiring practices and for some strange reason you don't seem to be able to comprehend that reality. The "point in this video" is based on you thinking that the way you're doing it is normal in the current job market which is why you're getting the thumbs down.

[Bloch]

Macbeth I am not searching for a new job. But thank you for thinking on me

I have just commented on eevBLAB #3

[Wilksey]

There are 2 interpretations of the video.
1. Dave is slagging off people / Engineers who cannot spell.
2. Dave is saying that if you cannot spell then you are up against stiff competition for the job as that is part of the requirements whilst making a point about presentation of the CV.

I expect the people thumbing down are interpreting as #1.

Yes, I suspect so.
Of course it was never my intention to slag off people who can't spell, I even said it myself, I can't spell.
It's about care and attention to details, and how it does count on you resume to most employers.
I won't reject someone because they spelled a word incorrectly, but spelling and grammar does count toward my overall appraisal.
I can't interview everyone.
And yes, I do take English as a 2nd language into account.

FWIW Dave, I believe people are wrong to think you meant #1, and I believe you are correct in wanting someone to take pride in their CV as, as you have said, it is the first impressions that count.

You would expect that people applying for their "dream job" would take more care in getting their CV proof read before submission if they really were that passionate about wanting the job, as it is not your average 9-5 supermarket job.

[Macbeth]

Some (hopefully) constructive criticism.

The reason you're getting thumbs down is that you really have no understanding of the current Australian job market and why you're seeing the resume's you are.

It's always DOC not PDF. A PDF resume is an instant fail because its contents won't get picked up in a keyword search used by recruiters. PDF = no job.

Because of keyword searching in resume's people now have to re-write their resume for each job they apply to. In some cases they have to remove qualifications and experience from the resume in order to get jobs. So resume's are constantly changing and job seekers now will have quite a few separate current resume's.

When you understand this you can understand that typo's and grammatical errors will creep in (although with spell checkers everywhere spelling mistakes are not excusable).

You're the exception and not the rule in your hiring practices and for some strange reason you don't seem to be able to comprehend that reality. The "point in this video" is based on you thinking that the way you're doing it is normal in the current job market which is why you're getting the thumbs down.

The fucking scumbag pimps that "add value" in the recruitment consultancy market just fuck it all up for everyone. They don't have a fucking clue about what they are fishing for, and when presented with a perfect CV by an Engineer, they go and do a search/replace on terms and even the name to get rid of it and make it seem like a third person. The results are utter cringeworthy and I have never understood why "employers" would pay these vile pimps 30% margin on my fucking contract income, despite me doing all the work trying to get the fucking contract. It's just so they can save themselves from employment legislation - paying a vile pimp who hates the "nerdy engineers" despite them making him his latest ferrari is just fine, and the corporate HR depts get used to perfect CVs being utterly fucking wrecked by these imbeciles as they know that's the best they can get. The "recruitment consultant" is a product of insane tax and employment legislation. I digress...

This will not apply to Dave, as the only CVs he should be interested in are all direct. I really doubt he will take on someone from an agency

[Wilksey]

^^ Do I detect some distaste towards recruitment agencies?  ^^

[tautech]

Some (hopefully) constructive criticism.

The reason you're getting thumbs down is that you really have no understanding of the current Australian job market and why you're seeing the resume's you are.

It's always DOC not PDF. A PDF resume is an instant fail because its contents won't get picked up in a keyword search used by recruiters. PDF = no job.

Because of keyword searching in resume's people now have to re-write their resume for each job they apply to. In some cases they have to remove qualifications and experience from the resume in order to get jobs. So resume's are constantly changing and job seekers now will have quite a few separate current resume's.

When you understand this you can understand that typo's and grammatical errors will creep in (although with spell checkers everywhere spelling mistakes are not excusable).

You're the exception and not the rule in your hiring practices and for some strange reason you don't seem to be able to comprehend that reality. The "point in this video" is based on you thinking that the way you're doing it is normal in the current job market which is why you're getting the thumbs down.

The fucking scumbag pimps that "add value" in the recruitment consultancy market just fuck it all up for everyone. They don't have a fucking clue about what they are fishing for, and when presented with a perfect CV by an Engineer, they go and do a search/replace on terms and even the name to get rid of it and make it seem like a third person. The results are utter cringeworthy and I have never understood why "employers" would pay these vile pimps 30% margin on my fucking contract income, despite me doing all the work trying to get the fucking contract. It's just so they can save themselves from employment legislation - paying a vile pimp who hates the "nerdy engineers" despite them making him his latest ferrari is just fine, and the corporate HR depts get used to perfect CVs being utterly fucking wrecked by these imbeciles as they know that's the best they can get. The "recruitment consultant" is a product of insane tax and employment legislation. I digress...

Very nicely put. 

[m12lrpv]

^^ Do I detect some distaste towards recruitment agencies?  ^^

Recruitment agencies are lower than snakes bellies and should be outlawed by any civilised society.

Unfortunately though if you want a job you have to play their game or you get nowhere and playing their game is how job seekers in Aus are conditioned.

[Macbeth]

^^ Do I detect some distaste towards recruitment agencies?  ^^

Oh, when you are working Christmas Eve late at night on an emergency, and your "pimp" who is partying all evening phones you up and tells you "to keep it up, keep it up - work all night long old chap!" because he gets 30% of my hourly, oh yes, I do wonder...

[Macbeth]

^^ Do I detect some distaste towards recruitment agencies?  ^^

Recruitment agencies are lower than snakes bellies and should be outlawed by any civilised society.

Unfortunately though if you want a job you have to play their game or you get nowhere and playing their game is how job seekers in Aus are conditioned.

Yeah, the best I have done is get the heads up from my boss that they would up my hourly, but at no cost to them, after a 3 month contract they wanted extended for another few months. The pimp bitch who didn't have to suffer working away from home, etc, refused to lower the 30%. I told her I'm on the next train home. Stupid whore-pimp bitch realised she had no bargaining power at all. Quickly phoned me back and dropped to 10%. I really didn't want her to get even 5%. But the legislation requires fucking leeches in the job market.

[Wilksey]

30%!
I hate recruitment agencies, they have not got a clue when it comes to anything remotely technical.

I had one phone me once asking if I could do "SMPS design" I said what is "SMPS" (Switch Mode Power Supply of course), he said "I don't know, can you do it", I said "Yes" and I got offered an interview.....mind baffles.

I quite often get the agencies asking if I can "refer" people, and that I can earn up to £300 for referring someone that leads to a work placement.  So, let me get this straight, I don't want the job, so you want me to do your job for you and find someone, mind you if they are willing to pay £300 for that they must be earning a pretty good screw out of it!

[Involute]

Reminds me of Van Halen's famous no brown M&Ms clause (it wasn't about the M&Ms): http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanhalen.asp.

[Wilksey]

The trouble is companies use these agencies thinking they are getting a good deal, when in reality, they are useless, I have on 2 occasions managed to get enough information from the agency staff for me to find out who the actual companies recruiting are and put my CV and a small covering letter letting them know how useless their recruiters are, both interviewed, both offered me jobs, sometimes if you can approach the companies direct then they will take a chance on you direct, plus they save their fees.

The trick is to get really chatty with the agency staff, let them think you are really interested but want to know just a bit more detail, more often than not they will tell you most of what you want to know without actually giving you the name of the company, for example, there was only 1 company near me (within the distance on the job spec) that designed for aerospace, no brainer on that one!  The other was taken from a specified town who designed industrial automation systems for factories, another no brainer.

[m12lrpv]

The trouble is companies use these agencies thinking they are getting a good deal, when in reality, they are useless,...

Sadly in Australia the leeches have become essential to filter out the noise from the government social security system which makes people apply for 10 jobs a fortnight in order to qualify for social security payments. That's a lot of non-genuine applications for jobs that need to be filtered out to find the real candidates.

[Macbeth]

The trouble is companies use these agencies thinking they are getting a good deal, when in reality, they are useless, I have on 2 occasions managed to get enough information from the agency staff for me to find out who the actual companies recruiting are and put my CV and a small covering letter letting them know how useless their recruiters are, both interviewed, both offered me jobs, sometimes if you can approach the companies direct then they will take a chance on you direct, plus they save their fees.

The trick is to get really chatty with the agency staff, let them think you are really interested but want to know just a bit more detail, more often than not they will tell you most of what you want to know without actually giving you the name of the company, for example, there was only 1 company near me (within the distance on the job spec) that designed for aerospace, no brainer on that one!  The other was taken from a specified town who designed industrial automation systems for factories, another no brainer.

I did just this - but then had to go through the "preferred supplier" that HR had a contract with.

There is no out. It is nothing to do with being an excellent self employed contractor, etc, the shitheads in charge of tax legislation insist that you are a mere "servant" like a Scullery Maid and require the supposed protection of the state and the vast tax grab to go with it.

[Marco]

The "recruitment consultant" is a product of insane tax and employment legislation. I digress...

Isn't it more a question of laziness on the side of employers/job-seekers? There's plenty of agents over here, but companies can string you along for years without giving you a permanent contract either way.

Sadly in Australia the leeches have become essential to filter out the noise from the government social security system which makes people apply for 10 jobs a fortnight in order to qualify for social security payments. That's a lot of non-genuine applications for jobs that need to be filtered out to find the real candidates.

HR must have a really good salary if paying new hires 30% more to save on weeding through resumes makes economic sense

[Macbeth]

Isn't it more a question of laziness on the side of employers/job-seekers? There's plenty of agents over here, but companies can string you along for years without giving you a permanent contract either way.

Yes & No. There is plenty of tax legislation that will make the "employer" liable for all kinds of taxes if the "employee" is anything other than self-employed. Also, employment legislation kicks in too, all those benefits earned by unions over the decades.

As a self-employed engineer, you don't give a fuck about unions, maternity/paternity pay, you don't give a fuck about holiday pay, you just want an agreed hourly or goal based compensation - you are old enough to understand how to keep a buffer between jobs or holidays. You do not need to be nannied by the taxman or the employment rights activists.

Unfortunately the scumbags in charge refuse to realise that people can work as "freelancers" despite most of the economy of the UK being made by small business. Oh, sorry, they have exemptions for popular people like Actors, Artists and Musicians.... But IT Nerds and Electronic Engineers?  "Let them eat cake"

[m12lrpv]

HR must have a really good salary if paying new hires 30% more to save on weeding through resumes makes economic sense

England/UK vs Australia 

[Macbeth]

Sadly in Australia the leeches have become essential to filter out the noise from the government social security system which makes people apply for 10 jobs a fortnight in order to qualify for social security payments. That's a lot of non-genuine applications for jobs that need to be filtered out to find the real candidates.

Fuck - that takes me back to the late 1980's/early '90s in the UK when we all had to do the same. I would have to pop in to every fucking TV/White goods shop begging for work - the owners clearly annoyed when I then begged for a fucking letterhead or business card, much less a fucking detailed letter of why they cannot employ me. Why should a small business have to deal with this shit?

So fucking humiliating. I had to go to the dole and show them my pathetic attempts of knocking door to door for jobs. They wanted proof (letterheads, etc.). 90% of the other dolies didn't present anything, they were clearly more streetwise than me. Lots of them had the latest fashions and even had cars. They would be called chavs now. They knew the system inside-out, while I had to perform the government pantomime.

The Chavs were perfectly happy while I really really wanted a job. I was the only one punished for wanting a job. I fucking hate politicians.