Just in Feb-08-2011: Electronic defects in Toyota vehicle - not the cause

[MrPlacid]

The year long study by NASA found no electronic defect in toyota cars that caused the run-away car. That doesn't rule out mechanical defects though. Anyways, I bet you the toyota's EEs can sleep soundly now since they were the first to get the blame.

--edit--
forgot the link
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_8_0_t&bvm=list&topic=blended&usg=AFQjCNGBZnPWg_Zhf6gxerApxBSWzv1tvw&cid=8797656892164&ei=aZNRTbiCB6CklQTTge4X&rt=HOMEPAGE&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmoney.cnn.com%2F2011%2F02%2F08%2Fautos%2Fnhtsa_nasa_toyota_final_report%2F

[tyblu]

It's totally a bunch of drivers too embarrassed to admit their floor-mat was riding up. ... my roommate did this.

[Kiriakos-GR]

I am in love with one Red Toyta Celica ... and nothing in the world can ruin this 

[EEwannabe]

It's totally a bunch of drivers too embarrassed to admit their floor-mat was riding up. ... my roommate did this.

I have no floor mats and it has happened to me, I had to turn the engine off to get it to stop.

- Patrick

[tyblu]

It's totally a bunch of drivers too embarrassed to admit their floor-mat was riding up. ... my roommate did this.

I have no floor mats and it has happened to me, I had to turn the engine off to get it to stop.

That sucks, man! What do you think it is?

[EEwannabe]

I have no idea. The gas pedal wasn't stuck but had no throttle control, the brakes wouldn't engage. After turning it off and back on the car has ran fine. This happened a few years ago and one other time before that. What's really bad is the model I drive is not in the recall. '99 Toyota Carolla

- Patrick

[the_raptor]

If I recall correctly the media hype was about situations where turning the key didn't stop the engine and/or shifting into neutral didn't stop the acceleration.

Modern cars are incredibly complicated and stuff does go wrong with them* (the throttle can just get mechanically jammed), but the media hype was about a regularly occurring un-commanded acceleration caused by the cars electronics.

The real problem is the large pool of people on the wrong side of the bell curve who are still allowed to own and operate a deadly weapon without understanding how to do so safely.

* My last car started having problems where it would get stuck in gear and refuse to accelerate. Much more dangerous and in-correctable by driver action than un-commanded acceleration.

[saturation]

If true, then the drivers are at fault; maybe they were trying to blame Toyota to get off from paying damages for what they did.

[Excavatoree]

I have no idea. The gas pedal wasn't stuck but had no throttle control, the brakes wouldn't engage. After turning it off and back on the car has ran fine. This happened a few years ago and one other time before that. What's really bad is the model I drive is not in the recall. '99 Toyota Carolla

- Patrick

Is the 1999 drive by wire?    My friend's 1998 still uses a mechanical linkage/cable.

I

[MrPlacid]

Everyone, don't forget Murphy's law

[sonicj]

i haven't found any mention of cell phones...

GSM has proven to be detrimental to the health of otherwise very robust electronic devices. a properly placed GSM phone inside of large tin can with a sensitive µC/ADC trying to measure a hall effect sensor... hmm...

is there no redundancy on the throttle system? 2 sensors, 2 µC's, each sanity checking the other with a failsafe routine ready to fire should one decide to fault. is this not how its done? 
-sj

[Time]

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/other/4212973/Excuse-me--but-where-can-engineers-go-to-get-their-reputation-back-

[NiHaoMike]

There was a time when most cars had a completely mechanical device called a clutch pedal that disconnected the engine from the transmission when pressed. And they also had a proper shifter that actually allows the driver to select the gear. Sadly, they're becoming very hard to find in a mainstream car nowadays. It would have prevented almost all of the "stuck accelerator" accidents by giving the driver a backup.

And at the same time, require that turning off the engine does not lock the steering wheel. Then drivers would be able to just turn off the engine in an emergency without worrying about locking the wheel.

is there no redundancy on the throttle system? 2 sensors, 2 µC's, each sanity checking the other with a failsafe routine ready to fire should one decide to fault. is this not how its done?

There is on Toyotas. There are two sensors on the pedal and two on the throttle valve, with two independent processors for control. If a fault is detected, the engine defaults to idle or turns off.

[Mechatrommer]

There was a time when most cars had a completely mechanical device called a clutch pedal

there is still more time for us here with clutch pedal (not toyota though). that is.... our luck

[sonicj]

hmm... im still not convinced. lets see that demo again with dave's cell phone ringing next to it! 

There was a time when most cars had a completely mechanical device called a clutch pedal that disconnected the engine from the transmission when pressed. And they also had a proper shifter that actually allows the driver to select the gear. Sadly, they're becoming very hard to find in a mainstream car nowadays. It would have prevented almost all of the "stuck accelerator" accidents by giving the driver a backup.

i agree. i feel way more in control when driving around my little 5sp w/o anti-lock vs. an automatic with abs. i also pay closer attention to the task of driving since it is required to operate the vehicle. i'm much less likely to look at my phone or eat a cheeseburger if im shifting gears.

my parents have a toyota avalon and i personally don't care for the feel of the drive by wire throttle. there is some sort of latency/exponential issue where if i engage it just right, the throttle doesn't respond in a predictable, normal manner.  annoying at best, but potentially dangerous should you ever encounter a split second scenario that requires predictable and precise throttle input.
-sj

[the_raptor]

There was a time when most cars had a completely mechanical device called a clutch pedal that disconnected the engine from the transmission when pressed. And they also had a proper shifter that actually allows the driver to select the gear. Sadly, they're becoming very hard to find in a mainstream car nowadays. It would have prevented almost all of the "stuck accelerator" accidents by giving the driver a backup.

Even the current "fly-by-wire" systems would have prevented it if the drivers hadn't been incompetent morons who are unfit to drive a deadly weapon (One of the morons who claimed un-controlled acceleration refused to shift to neutral even when told to by the police).

And at the same time, require that turning off the engine does not lock the steering wheel. Then drivers would be able to just turn off the engine in an emergency without worrying about locking the wheel.

Every car I have ever driven has an initial key position which powers the electronics and unlocks the wheel etc without turning over the engine. The second position is what activates the engine and so turning back to the first position kills the engine.