13yo Invents a Better Hyperloop - It's still a STUPID IDEA

[EEVblog]

The sad state of journalism is on full display, as CNN reports on a 13yo "scientist" who has invented a new version of the Hyperloop that's better than Elon Musk's concept.
A vacuum/low pressure based Hyperloop is still fundamentally a stupid concept that will never be practical, and this new magnetic coupling concept is even sillier.
Just stick to MagLev, it works.

[China NewBoy]

first one!

[FrankBuss]

Here you can see some more details about the idea from the "scientist":



My question would be, if it is possible to drive a train with some compressed air. How much pressure do you need and how big needs the tube to be? And how does it work in curves? How strong needs to be the magnet? How does it stop? And right, as you mentioned in the video, it can't be a steel tube if it uses magnets to attach to the inner moving part. Also towing it from the side will create a high shear force, which will result in high friction.

But if this would work at all, it would be still a very bad idea. It would need much more energy because of all the losses in the system than just using an overhead contact line and electrical motors. Which would be also cheaper to build than the tube system for existing railroads. I know in the USA there are still many diesel trains, unlike for example here in Germany, where almost all rails have overhead contact lines.

[ogden]

When you see that apparently someone helped her with plumbing and not only, you start to think how much help she received in other areas of "invention".

[Simon]

Future CEO of Ubeam has been born.....

[StillTrying]

Storgaring renewable enegry as compressed air, because it's the most inefficient method we could think of.

[Simon]

What hyperloop? ? ? ? ? ?

I heard no mention of hyper-loop in the video. So where has this come from. Did someone see the tube and draw a conclusion?

[StillTrying]

I heard no mention of hyper-loop in the video. So where has this come from. Did someone see the tube and draw a conclusion?

I dunno, but yesterday I wrote: "According to this the idea was nothing to do with Hyperloopy, cnn has just made that up."
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-hyperloop-busted/msg2768322/#msg2768322

[Simon]

https://www.youngscientistlab.com/entry/2049

I think I may avoid 3M products in the future, no need to fund this bullshit!

So let me see her answer to what is her favourite invention in the last 100 years is the 3D printer. Let me guess, it's not, just, that, 3M make 3D printer consumables is it?

[Simon]

Oh look: https://www.google.com/search?q=3m+3d+printer&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB822GB822&oq=3m+3d+printer&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.5980j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 talk about product placement. This teenager has been used and abused!!!!

[Syntax Error]

What goes around comes around, and in the case of atmospheric locomotion, that's once every 180 years.

We must always encourage young engineers, even if their ideas are a bit 'immature'. Afterall, how many of us on the EEVBlog Forum were aged 10 building 'spaceships' form lego, meccano or fischertechnik, but still thinking big? As grown-ups we have a responsibility to ensure these young learners gain the toolsets to be able to innovate, rather than be set up to fail by everyone else's unrealistic expectations - or CNN's reporting of the alternate facts.

As for hyper loop, it's just another rich kids theme park ride. Just like Virgin Galactic.

Atmospheric trains really sucked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_railway

[ogden]

We must always encourage young engineers, even if their ideas are a bit 'immature'.

Right. Sad part of this story is existence discouraging video where author openly laughs about clearly uneducated "invention" of kid and calls it STUPID IDEA (emphasis is not even mine)

[Simon]

The problem here is that no one would have known about this if it were not for CNN lying about it. The idea is stupid and what is shamefull is that a 3M engineer "mentored" her, but then as long as 3M get to sell some 3D printer gear off the back of a 13 year old who cares......

[FrankBuss]

BTW, you can see the exact same invention here, except the tube is below the tracks, but same magnetic attachment:

https://www.wired.com/story/flight-rail-vectorr-atmospheric-railway-train/

The video is interesting. At 1:45 you can see the piston as well. This works in curves, too, because it has a torus at each end, and the middle is smaller than the tube. Main advantage compared to normal trains is that it is much lighter, because it doesn't need a heavy motor, so e.g. it can climb steeper grades, as the say and demonstrate in the video. It would be possible to accelerate and break much faster as well, and with less energy. Maybe the whole system needs even less energy than traditional trains. Doesn't look that stupid anymore after seeing the real size prototype.

I think the Wikipedia article shows that the main problem of previous inventions was that they used valves in the tube for attaching the piston to train (rats were eating the leather valves etc.), because they didn't have these strong magnets back in the days.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

When an idea is a stupid idea... well, it's a stupid idea. Things have to be called by their name.

[FrankBuss]

I don't think anymore it is a stupid idea. A conventional locomotive weighs more than 100 tons and it can't be used for steep grades. And accelerating needs a lot of energy. There are some modern regional trains (e.g. S-Bahn in Germany) which uses the motors as generators when breaking, but I don't think it is widely used for bigger trains, and efficiency wouldn't be good.

Also the additional weight for traditional locomotives causes higher friction, so more losses. And you can't make the whole train much lighter, because then it might be difficult to accelerate fast, or break.

All this is no problem with the air powered train with the piston in the tube. Of course, there would be other problems, like how to use multiple trains on one track (might need multiple segments) and probably higher maintenance costs. But could be still useful for some routes.

[Simon]

It's a bat shit crazy idea.....

[FrankBuss]

It's a bat shit crazy idea.....

Can you give some reasons? Someone would need to calculate it, maybe based on the Flight Rail prototype, but I think for short routes, overall system cost and energy usage could be lower than with traditional trains. It could be used for grades up to 10% (according to the video), which is impossible for traditional trains (max about 3-4%), at least if you want some decent speed and not special gear wheel trains. And regenerative breaks have only like 20% efficiency. Do the math for a 100 ton locomotive, compared to an air pressure powered lightweight train.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Yeah let's install millions of kilometres of pistons and air pumps everywhere, and then have to maintain them too, what can go wrong? Doesn't sound like very good idea. And out of curiosity, how are they going to install the pistons here?

[ogden]

The problem here is that no one would have known about this if it were not for CNN lying about it.

You nailed it. Obscure CNN channel started it, yet Dave have to spread the word further so new crowds of trolls can reach little girl with their damaging to immature mind, comments. Non-stupid decision would be to not use (non-EE) clickbait buzzword for extra penny this time and hope that it does not spread and you are not along those in the crowd who throws rocks at little girl.

The idea is stupid and what is shamefull is that a 3M engineer "mentored" her, but then as long as 3M get to sell some 3D printer gear off the back of a 13 year old who cares......

Science fair projects of "kids inventors" was never expected to be working or feasible. Nobody called their "inventions" as stupid... until now.

[Simon]

The idua is stupid. But the stupid mentor should have "mentored", I don't know, maybe the alternative would have meant less parts printed with 3M kit.

Having stupid ideas is not a crime. I had plenty, but anyone I told them too explained why that would not work, they did not encourage me to make a fool of myself or put me on a pedestal and give me a false sense of achievement.

[Dr. Frank]

The ICE is our German high speed train, Inter City Express, a conventional rail train, but ~300km/h fast (ICE 3).

The Transrapid was the German magnetic levitation train, designed and built between 1969..1979 in Northern Germany (Emsland, 40km from where my wife grew up), but had been running on that test circuit only, until it was sold to China, now running in Shanghai since 2004. On that 30km circuit this Transrapid SMT, or Shanghai Maglev Train, achieves up to 430km/h, and to my knowlwedge it's the only  commercially operating magnetic levitation train.

Frank

[Simon]

And to call a 13 year old a scientist is crazy when we can't get proper engineers and scientists out of university these days. Yes kids can be gifted but this one is not. She might make a good reporter when she grows up - just saying....

[nctnico]

I don't think anymore it is a stupid idea. A conventional locomotive weighs more than 100 tons and it can't be used for steep grades. And accelerating needs a lot of energy. There are some modern regional trains (e.g. S-Bahn in Germany) which uses the motors as generators when breaking, but I don't think it is widely used for bigger trains, and efficiency wouldn't be good.

AFAIK all modern electric trains use regenerative braking. With modern electronic motor drives this comes for free.

All this is no problem with the air powered train with the piston in the tube. Of course, there would be other problems, like how to use multiple trains on one track (might need multiple segments) and probably higher maintenance costs. But could be still useful for some routes.

These are the kind of problems which make or break a solution.

[DimitriP]

I stopped watching after "globaly reducing transportation emissions".

Then, like every good scientist, I  searched and found  a reason to justify my behavior:

In absolute terms, the picture is clear. Worldwide, road users account for about 71% of transport CO2 emissions, with railway companies making up less than 1.8%, next to 12.3% for aviation and 14.3% for shipping, according to the International Energy Agency and International Union of Railways.

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/greener-travel-car-or-rail

So go ahead..... fix the 1.8% problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!