Why don't SMPS CRT TV's have huge HV caps like in old CRT TVs or microwaves ?

[tooki]

Well what I mean is... no CRT TV is modern. I have no doubt that the later CRT TV models used SMPSs. But literally, does anyone even make CRT TVs any more? I know they were making smallish ones for emerging markets a bit longer than for most of the world, but even that was years ago.

So yeah, my entire gripe was that I don’t think any CRT TV can be called “modern”.

As has been said, "modern" is relative. Compared to a TV made in 1955, a TV made in 1995 is quite modern. CRT TVs made in the final generation of CRT technology will always be modern in that sense, they were the most modern that tech ever got.

Except that, not including specific areas like history and art where it has a specific, nontrivial meaning, the word “modern” is actually not relative. It means “recent compared to now”, not “late within an arbitrary timeframe”. It may be nonspecific, but it’s not relative. Given that CRT TVs haven’t been made for years, and no LCD or plasma TV from the era of the last CRTs would be called a “modern TV”, I don’t think one can call any CRT TV “modern”. How about “late model” instead?

[westfw]

They still make CRT monitors...  In fact, gamers have a preference for analog CRT TVs (with direct video inputs.)  Apparently there can be enough "lag" in between the inputs of a modern LCD TV/Monitor and the actual display to interfere with gameplay.  (Especially (?) on the "legacy" inputs.)

[james_s]

If someone is still making CRT monitors I'd love to know where. In the vintage arcade collecting circles monitor supplies have dried up and the occasional NOS monitor that pops up tends to fetch $500+.

For retro console games a CRT TV is essential too, the light guns won't work on any other type of display.

[westfw]

If someone is still making CRT monitors I'd love to know where.

Wow.  Ok, I expected that CRT monitors would still be available, but I'm not finding any either...

[Jwillis]

Theirs still a few refurbished ones on amazon.But I imagine that the same thing will happen as when turntables disappeared off the market.Eventually niche markets will pick up the demand for CRT monitors again.

[janekm]

Theirs still a few refurbished ones on amazon.But I imagine that the same thing will happen as when turntables disappeared off the market.Eventually niche markets will pick up the demand for CRT monitors again.

Setting up a production line for CRT monitors may just be a tad more involved than for a turntable though...

[mikeselectricstuff]

Theirs still a few refurbished ones on amazon.But I imagine that the same thing will happen as when turntables disappeared off the market.Eventually niche markets will pick up the demand for CRT monitors again.

Setting up a production line for CRT monitors may just be a tad more involved than for a turntable though...

Ditto Nixie tubes

[tooki]

If someone is still making CRT monitors I'd love to know where.

Wow.  Ok, I expected that CRT monitors would still be available, but I'm not finding any either...

You can still special-order broadcast 19" HD CRTs from Ikegami, at least theoretically — starting at $8500.

No, I didn't accidentally add an extra zero there.


But yeah, googling for "last CRT computer monitor" seems to indicate 2012 as when people were already asking this question in the past tense.

Sony, who arguably made the very best CRTs ever made, shut down the Trinitron production lines in 2008.

There are still some CRT TVs (14-19") made in and for emerging markets, if alibaba is to be believed, but I think even they must be living on borrowed time, given how cheap large LCD panels have gotten. But unlike TVs, I don't think that emerging markets continued with CRT computer displays any longer than developed countries.

Theirs still a few refurbished ones on amazon.But I imagine that the same thing will happen as when turntables disappeared off the market.Eventually niche markets will pick up the demand for CRT monitors again.

Arcade game refurbishers were the very last source of demand for large CRTs, and they lost that battle, having totally depleted stocks of some sizes a few years ago. I think they're basically doing LCD retrofits wherever possible, and saving the CRTs for games with light guns that simply cannot operate with any other display type.

I honestly don't think these things will make a comeback. The image quality advantages of CRTs can likely be matched or exceeded by newer technologies (I'm lookin' at you, OLED!), and I suspect that for applications that require the specific properties of CRTs (like light pens/guns), it may even be possible to make retrofit OLEDs that mimic those properties. (For example, is there any reason you couldn't simulate the line-by-line painting on an OLED panel, given beefy enough drive electronics?) Given that the expertise in making quality CRTs is in retirement right now, and will soon die off, resuming CRT production would require enormous investment that almost certainly will never be worth the effort.

Theirs still a few refurbished ones on amazon.But I imagine that the same thing will happen as when turntables disappeared off the market.Eventually niche markets will pick up the demand for CRT monitors again.

Setting up a production line for CRT monitors may just be a tad more involved than for a turntable though...

Ditto Nixie tubes

Honestly, I think that Nixie tubes are positively trivial to make compared to color CRTs. So many more parts, and they all must be in perfect alignment.

[james_s]

Yeah a nixie tube is going to be easy even compared to a small B&W CRT, and color CRTs are enormously more complex. It's absolutely amazing that they got the process refined to the degree they did, early color sets were hugely expensive and building them was extremely labor intensive. When they're gone, they're gone, that tech is never coming back unless something like the Star Trek replicator becomes reality.

One of the last hopes is that a museum in Ohio has the equipment from the last CRT rebuilder in the US that shut down a number of years ago. They have it set up and are working on getting everything operational to rebuild antique TV CRTs, it's not possible to re-phosphor color tubes though so if the phosphor is burned as is common with arcade games, the tube is done.

[westfw]

Sorta like tungsten filament light-bulbs.  They SEEM really simple compared to an LED light bulb, and then you start wondering just how one goes about manufacturing tungsten filaments, given that it's very hard and has a very high melting point. ( https://www.tungsten.com/tips/how-tungsten-wire-is-made/ )

[tooki]

One of the last hopes is that a museum in Ohio has the equipment from the last CRT rebuilder in the US that shut down a number of years ago. They have it set up and are working on getting everything operational to rebuild antique TV CRTs, it's not possible to re-phosphor color tubes though so if the phosphor is burned as is common with arcade games, the tube is done.

By pure chance, do you have any knowledge of (or links to) how the color phosphors were applied? I've seen how it's done on monochrome CRTs (it's fairly trivial), but have never come across a detailed description of the process for color.

[tooki]

Random thought: Isn't it sad that the knowledge for how to make things gets lost? Like, not even including the knowledge that exists only in the heads of people, even just the documentation is often lost, since the processes are developed by companies who guard that information as trade secrets. What happens when they eventually go out of business? Or if some bean counter simply decides the company archives aren't worth the storage costs?

An example from my own world: Apple's old Tech Info Library. Tons and tons of info on how the old Mac hardware and software worked, release notes, etc. From one day to the next, wiped from apple.com -- and not backed up fully by archive.org due to the flags set.

Or what about how companies used to publish on their development processes (for example, in the HP Journal), release schematics in service manuals, etc. Also all gone.

I kinda wish I'd been born a few decades earlier, when we didn't have quite the corporate secrecy we have now. (On the other hand, then I wouldn't have the Internet... sigh...)

[james_s]

By pure chance, do you have any knowledge of (or links to) how the color phosphors were applied? I've seen how it's done on monochrome CRTs (it's fairly trivial), but have never come across a detailed description of the process for color.
[/quote]

They used a photographic process. The phosphor compounds were mixed with a photo sensitive binder, the tube face was coated fully with one, then the shadow mask installed and the assembly exposed under a light source positioned precisely where the electron gun for that color will be. Then the non-exposed phosphor is washed off and the process repeated for the other two colors. The shadow mask used for this process is permanently paired with that tube and used for all three exposures. After that process is complete the bell and the face are joined.