what an oscilloscope recommended for a woman passionate about electronics?

[CharlotteSwiss]

To the OP: I strongly recommend leaving high voltage and mains side stuff alone until you have a lot more experience. Just don't do it. Stick with low voltage circuits powered by at most a low voltage DC bench power supply for now and focus on understanding how to use your new scope. You have to be careful enough probing low voltage stuff just to ensure you're getting good measurements. When you move to higher energy circuits, you have to be a million times more careful, and even so experienced people have blown up test equipment at best and gotten killed at worst.

to learn how to use it, I will only measure small circuits that I will make on the 1000 holes, and it will be powered by my bench power supply
 

[tautech]

The OP has no doubt compensated her probes already but I'll add for other followers.

Pic added as a thumbnail to the post to show the OP that an image hosting site is not required.

but OP who would it be?
I don't know how to insert photos in any other way
 

OP is you, the original poster in this thread. 

I purposely uploaded the screenshot for you to see as a thumbnail and linked its URL  within IMG flags into the thread. If you Quote my post you can see the syntax used to have the image full size within your post.

I did this to show you how you can easy put screenshots into posts when you stumble onto something you need help with for your scope learnings.
The blue Print button saves a PNG screenshot onto a USB stick and then upload it into the forum database with the Attachments link when you post.

Have fun with it and play safe. 

[dietert1]

The ground clip is the short wire on the side of the probe with blank metal visible ("crocodile clip"). It is meant to be connected to the reference level/Gnd of the circuit you want to analyze. But if you forget to connect it or it falls off or you tear it off accidentally, you have a good chance the blank metal will touch somewhere where it should not and make a short to protective ground. And you destroyed the circuit you wanted to measure.

With a little force you can pull that wire with the clip away from the probe, to avoid that risk of making a short. Keep it in safe place, you may need it later.

Now, to make a measurement, the reference level/Gnd of the circuit you want to measure needs to be connected to protective ground. If it isn't you have to make a connection with a wire/cable. That connection will then replace the Gnd clip of the probe that you took off.

The only other blank metal on the probe is the small probe tip and that is high impedance and meant to be connected to the test point.

ok, now I understand the problem: the ground probe could come off and go to a point in tension, causing big problems.
so you suggested that it would be better to remove the piece that acts as the ground from the probe ...
But I don't understand what alternative to use to connect the probe to the ground!
thanks 

The probe does not need a ground connection. Its ground is connected to protective earth as soon as you connect the probe cable to the scope. So as soon as the test circuit is grounded, too, by some other wire or cable, you can measure. This works well for audio and up to some MHz. For higher frequencies it won't work. Then you have to exercise not dropping the ground clip.

Regards, Dieter

[CharlotteSwiss]

OP is you, the original poster in this thread. 

I purposely uploaded the screenshot for you to see as a thumbnail and linked its URL  within IMG flags into the thread. If you Quote my post you can see the syntax used to have the image full size within your post.

I did this to show you how you can easy put screenshots into posts when you stumble onto something you need help with for your scope learnings.
The blue Print button saves a PNG screenshot onto a USB stick and then upload it into the forum database with the Attachments link when you post.

ok for OP, I did not understand 
For image, I had used an external site, as I had tried with the "insert image" icon, instead you have to use the attachment, ok for the next time (I hope to remember)
thanks 

[CharlotteSwiss]

The probe does not need a ground connection. Its ground is connected to protective earth as soon as you connect the probe cable to the scope. So as soon as the test circuit is grounded, too, by some other wire or cable, you can measure. This works well for audio and up to some MHz. For higher frequencies it won't work. Then you have to exercise not dropping the ground clip.

ok thanks dieter, now I understand.
however, the external cable must be firmly fixed to a ground point of the circuit. So it doesn't seem very advantageous to me when using the probe clip ground 

[dietert1]

Some people don't learn by advice, but only by own (bad) experience. That's ok with me. I just wanted to indicate that the ground clip is detachable for good reason.
The difference between a fixed ground connection and the clip is that the clip will come off while handling the probe. Of course you can also power down the device under test each time you change probe position. That's going to be slow. Good luck!

Regards, Dieter

[CharlotteSwiss]

Some people don't learn by advice, but only by own (bad) experience. That's ok with me. I just wanted to indicate that the ground clip is detachable for good reason.
The difference between a fixed ground connection and the clip is that the clip will come off while handling the probe. Of course you can also power down the device under test each time you change probe position. That's going to be slow. Good luck!

Regards, Dieter

some people, but not me 
I am very cautious, I ask specifically for this
ok now I understand the advantage of the proposed solution, just a cable by connecting only the earth conductor to the plug, insert the plug into a mains socket and then connect the conductor to the ground of the circuit under test from the opposite side: the only compromise that only works low frequency.
I haven't tried any measurements yet, but I think when I change the position of the probe, I will turn off both the circuit and the oscilloscope for safety (I only turn on when the tip and ground are well fixed)
 

[TomS_]

OP: Try not to worry about things so much. A scope is only dangerous if you use it to do something dangerous, like most tools. As others have said, stay away from mains voltage and you are orders of magnitude safer already.

If you use the scope to measure only low voltage digital or analogue circuits (think Arduino, small audio amplifies, etc), the worst that can happen is you short a power rail or the output of an IC or something like that. Not going to burn your house down or blow your scope up.

A decent power supply should have at least a fuse on the outputs to protect against that, so at worst you get a small spark then the circuit turns off and you have to replace the fuse if it is not resettable.

If you short the output of an IC you might blow it or damage it, but you should always have spares in your kit.

The ground clip can be managed to make sure it is less likely to cause trouble. Try not to stretch the probe across your board and it has less reason to come flying off and touch something it shouldn't. Move the clip as required or use another probe. If need be, design in points to connect your ground clip on your own boards, you will often see test points in commerical products which are intended to make diagnosis and troubleshooting easier, and provide easy to access points to do so.

I have been using a Keysight scope worth thousands of pounds for some years, I'm still alive and my scope is not broken because I usually only work with low voltage DC and digital circuits. I've made the odd boo boo and caused a spark or two, but luckily I have never damaged anything as a result. There's no reason you can't say the same in a couple of years time, like many others have done before you.

(I didn't bother to read 200 some posts, so apologies if I got this wrong 😇)

[CharlotteSwiss]

OP: Try not to worry about things so much. A scope is only dangerous if you use it to do something dangerous, like most tools. As others have said, stay away from mains voltage and you are orders of magnitude safer already.

thank you for your testimony; never having used an oscilloscope I will certainly start with easy measurements on Breadboard in low DC.
Users have done well to warn me, security should never be overlooked!
I am so cautious that after 30 hours that I unpacked the oscilloscope, I have not turned it on yet, in the meantime I have read all the documents on the siglent support...

I turn it on for the first time now
 

[tkamiya]

OK....

Just so you know....  real geeks rips open the box, find the cord, and plug it in, then start pushing buttons!  I see you need some geek training....   

Right now, I have no right to lecture anyone, as I just shocked myself diagnosing a faulty oscillator circuit. 

Just have lots of fun.  Those of us who started electronics when Internet (or even BBS) didn't exist broke enough things and each time, we learned valuable (and costly) lessons. 

I have all sorts of advanced oscilloscopes.  The one I end up using the most is an inexpensive Siglent.  (exactly the same one you have)  What a wonderful world (electronics wise) we live in.  What these scopes can do are far more advanced than ones costing 100 times just few decades ago.

By the way, I grew up in analog scope days and that's all I knew.  I tried to measure mains (which you already know it's a bad thing) at one time.  I heard a "pop" sound and the scope shutdown.  Apparently, there is a protection for this kind of stupidity.  It turned right back on and worked as if nothing happened.

[CharlotteSwiss]

OK....

Just so you know....  real geeks rips open the box, find the cord, and plug it in, then start pushing buttons!  I see you need some geek training....   

Right now, I have no right to lecture anyone, as I just shocked myself diagnosing a faulty oscillator circuit. 

  hello tkamika, everything ok after the shock? 
calm down, it's been more than 30 hours since I opened the box, but I haven't done the ON button yet. They are in the manual reading phase ... soon I turn on and calibrate the probes .. small steps
note: the instrument certainly has some protection, but better not to experiment... 

[tkamiya]

Like I said!  You need some intensive GEEK training!  See the button blinking at you?  It means push me, push me, push me....  Seriously, nothing bad will happen if you turn it on.  All you get is a horizontal line - how anti-climatic!

Yes, everything is OK after the shock.  A little white spot on my finger.  That's it.

Trust me....  you'll break plenty of things.  It's OK, as you long as you learn something from it each time.  Learning what NOT to do is part of learning electronics.

Ah....  dinner was good tonight!

[tggzzz]

Problems can arise if you

• poke around inside an SMPS
• connect an ordinary probe to the mains live or neutral (either the probe's signal or shield)
• accidentally slip and allow a probe to touch a high voltage

That covers the most likely problem areas; you need an HV isolating probe for those cases.

OTOH if you use either a standard bench power supply, or a even an old-style homebrew power supply containing an isolating transformer, you will be fine.

[CharlotteSwiss]

Like I said!  You need some intensive GEEK training!  See the button blinking at you?  It means push me, push me, push me.... 

it's 1 hour that I see that green button flashing, but I haven't pressed it yet. Meanwhile, I'm reading the "calibrate probe" manual, they already say to press defaut button, but I don't think it's necessary ...is not problem, I'm used to working at night, no problem for me
 

[CharlotteSwiss]

Problems can arise if you

• poke around inside an SMPS
• connect an ordinary probe to the mains live or neutral (either the probe's signal or shield)
• accidentally slip and allow a probe to touch a high voltage

That covers the most likely problem areas; you need an HV isolating probe for those cases.

OTOH if you use either a standard bench power supply, or a even an old-style homebrew power supply containing an isolating transformer, you will be fine.

Don't worry, I stay away from the smpt: a few months ago, with a multimeter I touched two tracks together, explosion and blaze (325Vdc areas); bits of smd scattered everywhere in the house 

this point my translator does not explain it well to me:
connect an ordinary probe to the mains live or neutral (either the probe's signal or shield
?

For probe HV, I don't need them, as I said I'll stay away from high voltage    (I hope not to happen by mistake ..)
Yes for my test as a beginner I will use my 30vdc bench power supply (classic PS-305D)
 

[CharlotteSwiss]

the two probes seem already calibrated, or am I wrong?





I don't know if the procedure is right:
-press default key
-probe set to 1x
-press auto key
-no screw adjustment, they seem already calibrated

The firmware installed, is 1.3.26 (the latest available on the siglent website, so it is already the most updated)

USB key for save png image, I did not find how to do the expulsion: I removed it, but then when inserting it into the PC he told me that the key had a problem. Maybe why not removed right from the oscilloscope?

thanks 

[james_s]

That looks totally fine. If the probes were out of adjustment the edges of the waveform would be rounded or spiked.

[tkamiya]

I believe probe compensation needs to be done at 10x setting....

Since we have the same scope, assuming nothing has changed:

Your scope should have come with a probe that can be set  to 1x or 10x.  (this is not always the case with every probe)  Some probe is dedicated to 10x only.  I have never seen 1x only probe.

On your probe, you should see a yellow slide switch that goes from 1x to 10x.  Slide that to 10x.  Then do the same test.  Should the edge not squared, turn the little capacitor on the probe with the tiny screw driver that came with it.  Be gentle here....  You shouldn't need a lot of change.

You've noticed there is a setting on the scope itself that switches 1x and 10x.  It actually doesn't do anything on the display EXCEPT the voltage scaling. 

The difference:
probe switch:  10x switch enables and disables the attenuation on probe itself.
scope setting:  10x changes the read out on display 10 times - whatever the signal that arrives. 

Typical setting is 10x.  Why that is, I'll defer that to later.

ps.  I'm so glad you pushed the button!

[tkamiya]

Here's some reading material on the switch on probe:

https://books.google.com/books?id=vRQe9XexjeMC&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=probe+adjustment+1x+10x+adjustment&source=bl&ots=qiJot28bYk&sig=ACfU3U1Lf7J-e5yoDes6n312pBlaT2I9KA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjitpL0xqPqAhXiTN8KHd0dCFgQ6AEwG3oECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=probe%20adjustment%201x%2010x%20adjustment&f=false

Point of interest is a section that starts bottom of page 54, "Oscilloscope Probes".

[0culus]

[snip]  I have never seen 1x only probe.

[snip

I have one, a Tek P6101A. I got it for free, unopened, with some other probes I bought. The seller probably just wanted rid of it. I have found it useful maybe once or twice?

[tautech]

the two probes seem already calibrated, or am I wrong?

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I don't know if the procedure is right:
-press default key
-probe set to 1x
-press auto key
-no screw adjustment, they seem already calibrated

The firmware installed, is 1.3.26 (the latest available on the siglent website, so it is already the most updated)

USB key for save png image, I did not find how to do the expulsion: I removed it, but then when inserting it into the PC he told me that the key had a problem. Maybe why not removed right from the oscilloscope?

thanks 

First, you are inadvertently in Zoom mode. Press the timebase control to toggle back out of it to single timebase mode.
You are only showing ch2 and that's because Autoset has adjusted for it and set the Trigger to it.
Probes only need compensating in 10x mode.

Press Ch1 button to enable it and only compensate probes on 10:1 settings......both the probe and channel input.
Look back at the screenshot I posted earlier, the channel tab displays the vertical setting on the channel (where it is on the display) and the input attenuation (10x, 1/10). This is the probe setting we use nearly all the time as it loads the circuit under test much less than a 1x setting and reduces the amplitude into the scope by a factor of 10.

If the scope and probes are set correctly this allows measurement to be correct whereas once we did the measurement by comparing the waveform against the graticules and also factored in the probe attenuation.


USB screenshots only need a second of 2 to be saved and there is no provision or need for safe eject.
As these scopes have no RTC (real time clock) the screenshot is not timestamped so a PC complains about it. Quite normal and not something to worry about.

[CharlotteSwiss]

That looks totally fine. If the probes were out of adjustment the edges of the waveform would be rounded or spiked.

yes, but as I was told I ran the probe test on 1x, I have to repeat 

I believe probe compensation needs to be done at 10x setting....
Your scope should have come with a probe that can be set  to 1x or 10x.  (this is not always the case with every probe)  Some probe is dedicated to 10x only.  I have never seen 1x only probe.
On your probe, you should see a yellow slide switch that goes from 1x to 10x.  Slide that to 10x.  Then do the same test.  Should the edge not squared, turn the little capacitor on the probe with the tiny screw driver that came with it.  Be gentle here....  You shouldn't need a lot of change.
You've noticed there is a setting on the scope itself that switches 1x and 10x.  It actually doesn't do anything on the display EXCEPT the voltage scaling. 
The difference:
probe switch:  10x switch enables and disables the attenuation on probe itself.
scope setting:  10x changes the read out on display 10 times - whatever the signal that arrives. 

Typical setting is 10x.  Why that is, I'll defer that to later.
ps. I'm so glad you pushed the button!

yes of course, the probe has the button 1x to 10x. I ran the test with 1x thinking it was the most common use, instead now you have explained to me that normally the probes should be used 10x
I must say that the siglent manual does not mention whether to set 1x or 10x, it only says that if they are calibrated by turning the screw then they must be 10x.
It was about time I pressed that button 

First, you are inadvertently in Zoom mode. Press the timebase control to toggle back out of it to single timebase mode.
You are only showing ch2 and that's because Autoset has adjusted for it and set the Trigger to it.
Probes only need compensating in 10x mode.
Press Ch1 button to enable it and only compensate probes on 10:1 settings......both the probe and channel input.
Look back at the screenshot I posted earlier, the channel tab displays the vertical setting on the channel (where it is on the display) and the input attenuation (10x, 1/10). This is the probe setting we use nearly all the time as it loads the circuit under test much less than a 1x setting and reduces the amplitude into the scope by a factor of 10.
If the scope and probes are set correctly this allows measurement to be correct whereas once we did the measurement by comparing the waveform against the graticules and also factored in the probe attenuation.
USB screenshots only need a second of 2 to be saved and there is no provision or need for safe eject.
As these scopes have no RTC (real time clock) the screenshot is not timestamped so a PC complains about it. Quite normal and not something to worry about.

hello, zoom I pressed it on purpose, to enlarge the square wave, so I could see better if it was ok, there will surely be a better method but for now I don't know 
I showed two images, one of channel 1 and the other of channel 2, why do you say that I only show channel 2?
Ok, then I repeat the calibration test, setting the probes to 10x, I didn't know it and the manual said nothing to me.
Clarification: the manual says to set the 10x probe only if it has to be calibrated through the small screw
now I'm happy to understand: set both the probe and the oscilloscope channel to 10x, and repeat the calibration test
For usb key, I will see with another key, because otherwise then when I put it in the PC it always asks me that the unit is corrupt and must be analyzed

Now I repeat the test... 

thanks 

[tautech]

First, you are inadvertently in Zoom mode. Press the timebase control to toggle back out of it to single timebase mode.
You are only showing ch2 and that's because Autoset has adjusted for it and set the Trigger to it.
Probes only need compensating in 10x mode.
Press Ch1 button to enable it and only compensate probes on 10:1 settings......both the probe and channel input.
Look back at the screenshot I posted earlier, the channel tab displays the vertical setting on the channel (where it is on the display) and the input attenuation (10x, 1/10). This is the probe setting we use nearly all the time as it loads the circuit under test much less than a 1x setting and reduces the amplitude into the scope by a factor of 10.
If the scope and probes are set correctly this allows measurement to be correct whereas once we did the measurement by comparing the waveform against the graticules and also factored in the probe attenuation.
USB screenshots only need a second of 2 to be saved and there is no provision or need for safe eject.
As these scopes have no RTC (real time clock) the screenshot is not timestamped so a PC complains about it. Quite normal and not something to worry about.

hello, zoom I pressed it on purpose, to enlarge the square wave, so I could see better if it was ok, there will surely be a better method but for now I don't know 

Rotate the timebase control. 

I showed two images, one of channel 1 and the other of channel 2, why do you say that I only show channel 2?
Ok, then I repeat the calibration test, setting the probes to 10x, I didn't know it and the manual said nothing to me.
Clarification: the manual says to set the 10x probe only if it has to be calibrated through the small screw
now I'm happy to understand: set both the probe and the oscilloscope channel to 10x, and repeat the calibration test

Yes, and both images showed your fav color for traces which means you tried to compensate both probes on ch2.
They each must be assigned to each channel using the colored rings so you know which probe is compensated for which channel.

For usb key, I will see with another key, because otherwise then when I put it in the PC it always asks me that the unit is corrupt and must be analyzed

Yes I know, these DSO's do this because the saved file has no timestamp.
All USB sticks will show the same.....non problem. Ignore the PC message.

[CharlotteSwiss]

Rotate the timebase control. 

Yes, and both images showed your fav color for traces which means you tried to compensate both probes on ch2.
They each must be assigned to each channel using the colored rings so you know which probe is compensated for which channel.

Yes I know, these DSO's do this because the saved file has no timestamp.
All USB sticks will show the same.....non problem. Ignore the PC message.

by fiddling, I understood that I had to turn the horizontal knob

ehmmm... I marked the two probes with different colors, and connected the yellow one to channel 1 and the pink one to channel 2 .. everything is regular. I calibrated on the two channels, not on the same channel. It deceives you that you see two waves in the same image, but it is relative to only one channel (the lower one is simply the zoom of the wave) 

in fact, even with the other key it makes an error, it is not a problem

thanks

[CharlotteSwiss]

performed the probe compensation test with the right 10x settings 

while with 1x they seemed ok, with 10x they are not, and they must be compensated, this is how the channel 1 probe was



And here are the two probes after compensation by adjusting the screw:







I'm starting to understand something, it was time...