Open-source firmware for chinese Geiger counters/radiation meters

[Gissio]

Hello everyone.

I have recently released an open-source firmware for replacing the firmware of some chinese Geiger counters/radiation meters. The link is https://github.com/Gissio/fs2011pro. Do you think this forum is appropriate for posting this? In case it is, where should I post it?

Cheers,

Gissio.

[barshatriplee]

No. I do not think it is inappropriate. Thanks.

[johansen]

No. I do not think it is inappropriate. Thanks.

Who are you?

Non zero chance in your lifetime you will wish you had a radiation meter

[jwet]

I went to look at these on Ebay and see that there is a 2023 version of this little counter.  Do you have plans to hack that one?  Thanks for the contribution, pretty interesting.

[5U4GB]

Apologies for raining on people's parade, but I wonder how much effort it's worth sinking into something that's the equivalent of a $10 DMM?  The tube they're using is unfamiliar, Chinese detectors usually use an M4011 or more recently J305's but those cost nearly as much as the entire detector does in this case so whatever this is it's even cheaper than that.  Doing custom software for that would be like souping up an Austin Allegro.

If you do want to sink engineering effort into radiation monitoring, something built around a semiconductor detector would be a really useful thing to work on since currently it's mostly a DIY job using scintillators, photomultipliers, and multichannel analysers.

[floobydust]

I did a quick check for calibration and could not find it  I don't see the source code- there is main.c and main.h and missing includes in the repo:
#include "../fs2011pro/buzzer.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/display.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/events.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/game.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/keyboard.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/measurements.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/power.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/settings.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/sim.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/menus.h"
#include "../fs2011pro/ui.h"


What a terrible PCB layout, who glues/puts the tube on top on the MCU, right next to the crystal? I always put parts with 500VDC on them there...
There's no schematic available for these? 

[jwet]

GM Tube detectors still have their place in radiation detection- don't count them out.  They are the most sensitive type of detector in general - are sensitive to beta and gamma and make a very good low power frisker type survey meter.   They aren't energy selective but if compensated, can give a fairly flat and good estimate area radiation.  The main problem with these little Chinese ratemeters is that they don't account for counting statistics or out of range conditions.  I applaud someone improving the biggest weakness in these instruments.  Solid state detector especially silicon are orders of magnitude less sensitive  Scintillators driving PMT's or avalanche detectors trade energy sensitivity for complexity and power.  I was the main architect for the design of the standard survey meter for the  US Nuclear Navy- the Multifunction Radiac- MFR, AN/PDQ-3, and a series of specialty probes.  The main unit used a GM tube detector in very advanced mode to achieve 9 decades or range..  I also was the architect for the main radiation instrument for the US Army called the Pocket Radiac (AN-UDR-13), that uses a solid state (large area silicon detector) and dosimeter reader..  It was designed for squad level control in a very grim tactical nuclear exchange like Russia is threatening Ukraine with lately.  Radiation detection has a lot of use cases- from background tracking to living near a nuclear plant and on to Nuclear Propulsion and finally Nuclear conflict.  These take a lot of solutions and probably the kind of detector that the OP is working on is the most common use case.

[montecri]

A bunch of low-life pretenders commented here trying to demotivate the guy.

Gissio, your firmware is great! Installed 2.0rc2 on a GC-01 and it's working much better now. Thank you for it and, please, keep the great work!!

Ignore the poor know-it-all souls here and just keep going.

For people really interested, just follow him on GitHub and you will be thankful.

Regards,

- Cristiano

[wizard69]

jwet; thanks for your post.   

Since you have what appears to be considerable experience here I'd like to tap that knowledge (never thought I might need to ask).  So questions:

• What are the best commercial solutions for personal protection?
• With used / older equipment what are the realities of aging?   That is do GM tubes and the like wear out over time.
• Are there any web sites for DIY solutions. 
• If not full DIY solution's, but sites that would help a tech better understand how these devices work. and the medical impact.

[daisizhou]

Hi Are you interested in ionization chamber detectors? I mean not using Geller tubes

[BennoG]

Hi Are you interested in ionization chamber detectors? I mean not using Geller tubes

That would be nice to test.

Benno

[daisizhou]

This

[BennoG]

Are you selling this, it would be going nice with my 3508B.

Benno

[daisizhou]

What does 3508B look like? Can you send me a picture?

[BennoG]

See photos, first one is with 1 of the 6 measure shields on it, the 2nd one is without the measure shield.
3th poto is my daily use meters (the small one I have always on me).
The big one is on when I put power on one of the x-ray tubes.

Benno

[daisizhou]

This is the 35080 module，KVP module.
There are 2 interfaces on the side of my 35050a host for connecting to the 35080,Is the output of 35080 a voltage signal? mv level?

[BennoG]

depending on the module you put on it.
most time between 0 and 1.5V the values are printed on the shields.
the output voltage on the calibrated kV value and the diff voltage per kV or 10kV

Benno

[daisizhou]

Do you know how it works?Does it look like the filter is made of a different material of metal?

[BennoG]

I think they have a measuring sensor in the shield (2 banana jacks) the some metal filter and in the device itself also a measuring device.
The measuring device is probably a small GM tube because it is designed to be operated in the x-ray beam.
By measuring the difference in radiation before and after the metal filter (different metals and thickness in every filter) they can determine the kv value.

But that is my guess I have not opened up a filter shield.

Benno

[daisizhou]

Please look at "map1", there is a red and black interface on the side of my host,If I input a DC power supply voltage of 0v-1.5v, can it simulate the 35050?

On the other side of the host, I found an RJ45 connection interface,I see a RS232 tag,So I looked for a RJ45-RS232 cable (not included with the original factory)，Do I need a software to connect the host and computer?

Finally I found a 35050a manual, hope it helps you

[BennoG]

I don't have a 35050 to test, but in theory you can connect a psu and put out the voltage of the calibration value to your meter.
I should display the calibration kV value, but I think it needs to measure also your detector with x-ray to make a good measurement.
If I have some spare time (in about 10 years or so) I will see if the output of the 35080 correspondents with the shield values for the set kV.
I can go up to 160kV with the tube shown below.
Also a photo of the real test setup, it is now connected to a 100kV cable because I am testing a 100kV setup for a customer at the moment.
On the Left you can see the 160kV 33mA PSU and the thick blac cable is the 160kV cable.

Benno

[daisizhou]

I would like to know how your 35080 KVP is currently used,Because you don’t have a 35050 host.


(Here is my guess)--Are you using a digital multimeter to connect the 35080 output?The connection is as shown in the attached picture.
For example, if 10KVX rays are used,The multimeter shows 0.2v。15KV irradiation, multimeter shows 0.25v..........Is this how it works?

[BennoG]

Yes use it with a DMM to measure the voltage on the red an black output  (only used once to test)
Bought it from eBay a while back

Benno