Solder station recommendations for someone who thinks the FX-888D sucks.

[Solder_Junkie]

As a former commercial user of the Weller TCP soldering irons, and a home user of Antex XS and M12 irons, and now a home user of a Weller WE1010, I would say the only difference is in the amount of metal in the tip used.

A long thin tip in the Weller, regardless of how many Watts are available, won't solder a large area of copper. Equally a large chisel Weller tip, such as the 4ETE-1 (5.6 x 1.2mm), will transfer a lot of heat quickly.

The humble and low cost Antex XS with a large bit, such as their 52 bit (4.7mm) has a lot of metal behind the tip of the bit and despite being only a 25 Watt iron, it will "out solder" a much higher Wattage soldering station on larger pads or components.

There is a myth that you need to turn up the temperature of a soldering station when working on larger components/pads... It works a lot better to use a larger bit.

For delicate soldering, such as 0603 size SMD parts, the little Antex M12 with a fine pointed bit (0.12mm or 0.5mm) works really well without the cost of a soldering station.

Just my 2p worth... Horses for courses as we say.

SJ

[peps1]

There is a myth that you need to turn up the temperature of a soldering station when working on larger components/pads... It works a lot better to use a larger bit.

surface area is your friend when it comes to heat transfer.

Really good video with a thermal camera here:

https://youtu.be/l0csCh3A8OM

[xavier60]

A BTW for anyone deciding to try the T18-S4. Its performance initially tends to improve as it wears, due to the thinning of the iron cladding I'm assuming. The point tends to wear into a mushroom shape so needs to be occasionally honed back into shape.
When the iron cladding eventually wears through at the point and exposing the copper core, the copper is then quickly eroded by the molten solder.
A hollow tip doesn't work very well.

Oritech now list it, https://www.oritech.com.au/Soldering-and-Rework-Equipment/Soldering-Tips/Hakko-T18-Range/pl.php

[wraper]

There is a myth that you need to turn up the temperature of a soldering station when working on larger components/pads... It works a lot better to use a larger bit.

surface area is your friend when it comes to heat transfer.

Really good video with a thermal camera here:

https://youtu.be/l0csCh3A8OM

Also tip cross section and length, you cannot expect something with like 0.3mm² cross section a lot of which consists of external iron layer transferring a lot of heat from the heater. And higher length only makes it worse.

[EPAIII]

There is only one soldering station that I recommend without reservation: the Weller WTCPT. I have had one for over 50 years (model WTCP back then) and it is still going strong - with the original tips.

https://www.amazon.com/WTCPT-Temperature-Controlled-Soldering-Station/dp/B00004W463/ref=sr_1_6?crid=17YLDFU5N9ZC1&keywords=weller+wtcpt+soldering+station&qid=1688800070&sprefix=Weller+WTCP+soldering+station%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-6

It may cost somewhat more than the Hakko, but it is totally dependable. And the temperature control is in the tip you select so there's nothing digital that can go bad.

[Veteran68]

As I recall the 888D was my first "real" soldering station, and upgrade from the old temp controlled Radio Shack station I'd had since the 80's or early 90's (and still have). I bought it because of its reviews and popularity at the time, paying around $100 for it if memory serves. I thought it was terrible. I have several genuine Hakko tips for it, and tolerated it for awhile as I wasn't soldering that often, but eventually got fed up. I figured buy once, cry once, so I sprung for a Pace ADS200 with ISB stand and several tips. Around $400 which stung but the difference was night and day. It's actually a pleasure to solder with.

[donlisms]

the 888D was my first "real" soldering iron .... I thought it was terrible. ... I sprung for a Pace ADS200 ... It's actually a pleasure to solder with.

I appreciate your feedback. Could you talk about the what and the why of the Hakko being so bad and the Pace so good?  And an interesting notion... whether tip geometry was quite similar or different, in light of recent posts?  Thanks!  I would truly appreciate that. 

[Veteran68]

the 888D was my first "real" soldering iron .... I thought it was terrible. ... I sprung for a Pace ADS200 ... It's actually a pleasure to solder with.

I appreciate your feedback. Could you talk about the what and the why of the Hakko being so bad and the Pace so good?  And an interesting notion... whether tip geometry was quite similar or different, in light of recent posts?  Thanks!  I would truly appreciate that.

Sure, as with anything much is subjective user-preference.

Hakko 888D:

- Poor UI
- Poor/inconsistent heat control, due to antiquated and inefficient tip design (no heating cartridge)
- Large, clumsy handle (though similar to most cheap pencils)

Pace ADS200:

- Fast!
- Great temp control
- Small and light ergonomic handle with short working distance between hand and tip (some consider this a con, thinking it's TOO delicate, but I think it's perfect)
- IBS stand upgrade (extra cost) is great for managing tip life by sleeping when in the stand

As to tip geometries, I have an assortment of similar tip styles for both. Not sure exactly what you're asking, but the 888D was inferior with every tip style I used compared to the ADS200. My most used tip styles are small chisels, bent conical, and the Miniwave (similar to T12 BC(F)2 tips) depending on what I'm working on. I also have knife and straight conical tips for both, but seldom use those.

Checking prices now, it looks like the ADS200 kit I have has increased about $100 in price since I bought mine 2-3 years ago. I'm not suggesting every hobbyist go out and buy a $450 prosumer grade soldering station, or that the ADS200 is so much better than anything else at its price point. It just works well for me. If you have the disposable income and like higher-end gear, then I highly recommend it, but it's not necessary for a good hobbyist experience. Before I bought the Pace I was seriously considering just getting a Hakko 951 T12 clone, a KSGR T12 station, and/or one of the USB pencils like the T80 or T100 (which I'll still do for portability purposes, but haven't yet). I would recommend any of those over the 888D, to be perfectly honest.

The newer JBC clones on the market now are also quite compelling, I'd also consider one of those. I will say the ADS200 tips are about half the cost (comparing genuine Pace to genuine JBC).

[coppice]

As I recall the 888D was my first "real" soldering station, and upgrade from the old temp controlled Radio Shack station I'd had since the 80's or early 90's (and still have). I bought it because of its reviews and popularity at the time, paying around $100 for it if memory serves. I thought it was terrible. I have several genuine Hakko tips for it, and tolerated it for awhile as I wasn't soldering that often, but eventually got fed up. I figured buy once, cry once, so I sprung for a Pace ADS200 with ISB stand and several tips. Around $400 which stung but the difference was night and day. It's actually a pleasure to solder with.

The 888/888D was a terrific tool. Reasonable price. Lasted for years, including the cable. Tips hardly ever needed replacement. Soldered really well. Then they took the lead out of solder......

[xavier60]

So far, I have not been able to find any excuse to upgrade from the FX888D to FX971. Maybe it is the solder.

[BlackICE]

So far, I have not been able to find any excuse to upgrade from the FX888D to FX971. Maybe it is the solder.

Faster heat up time, making sleeping work better.
Better heat recovery.
Easier to change tips.
Better tip to hand distance.
More watts if you need it.

Downside costs more.

I use a Ksger T12 clone works better and cost less than a 888, worst than a 971 and even 951.

[Andrew LB]

I've owned a Hakko 936, FX-888D, KSGER T12, and a year and a half ago i bought a AIXUN T3 with C249 JBC handle and it's absolutely amazing. I lift the handle from the cradle and it's at soldering temp in 3 seconds flat, faster than i can move it to what i'm working on. Once it's on the cradle, it shuts off the heater and drops down to the set standby temperature. It has no problems putting down enough heat on large ground planes or putting enough heat through a fine tip when required. Mine came with 3 tips and while they're JBC knock-offs, they've worked great all this time. I did purchase my first authentic JBC tip a few weeks ago and even though they're expensive, the quality is there for sure.

I use mine mostly for repairing home and car amplifiers, re-soldering, and some surface mount stuff. Right now i'm touching up and replacing the mosfets and caps on an old SoundStream Reference 1000sx amplifier from the late 90s. The mosfets on the left, flanking the capacitor bank are what blew up.

[xavier60]

I got some SN100C Lead Free solder to try with the FX888D and T18-S4 tip. I need to stay with a fine tip for the small SMD parts, mainly the SOIC pins.
Some of the joints were difficult to do because I couldn't get the tip to make good enough side contact.
I figured that a bent tip would fix the problem, so I ordered some T18-BR02 tips.
In the meantime, I have tried a T18-S4 which I bent myself. It works well at 350C.
I have attached a picture of a board that I assembled using the SN100C and bent T18-S4 for all hand soldered joints.

[Veteran68]

I got some SN100C Lead Free solder to try with the FX888D and T18-S4 tip.
...
I have attached a picture of a board that I assembled using the SN100C and bent T18-S4 for all hand soldered joints.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting you can't solder with the 888D. If that's all I had (and for awhile it was the best I had), I could certainly get by with it for most tasks. Certainly the task you demonstrated. Being able to melt solder is only one aspect of a soldering iron, albeit an important one, but performance, ergonomics, flexibility, and extra features are also factors to consider.

Just like if all I had to drive was a 1978 Ford Pinto, it would still get me from point A to point B (as long as someone didn't rear end me and blow me up). But if you give me a choice between that 1978 Pinto and a 2024 Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Lexus/Cadillac (insert favorite mainstream luxury brand here), I'm going to pick the nicer option every time. And might dare say the Pinto sucks by comparison.

Obviously, the 888D is legendary due to its long-established popularity as a relatively inexpensive upgrade from a department store fixed temp pencil iron. It has introduced many serious students to soldering. But not only has it been surpassed in the bang-for-buck category by cheap T12 and JBC clones, but it doesn't compare to high-end models from Pace, Metcal, and JBC. If you've experienced those higher-end stations and still enjoy using the 888D, then I think you're a rare bird indeed but more power to you.

DT830 DMMs are also cheap and prolific, and serve untold millions of people well in their limited use cases, but aren't typically what someone advancing beyond rank beginner strives to use everyday. Not that I don't use them at all -- I have several DT830's tucked away in various places as disposable meters -- but they're not my preferred daily drivers either.

[xavier60]

I have been noticing that cartridge type tips are generally shorter and thicker than conventional type tips like the T18 range.
As the length is increased and the cross section is reduced, the performance of even cartridge type tips is quickly lost.

[xavier60]

In case someone hasn't seen the FX-971 yet,
Hakko have put the mains switch in the correct place, on the front.

[aeberbach]

I am leaning towards a fx-971. My 942 has been so great I would not hesitate to get another Hakko.

[nhand42]

In case someone hasn't seen the FX-971 yet,
Hakko have put the mains switch in the correct place, on the front.

Incredible how often they get that wrong

I picked up a FX-971 this week from RMS components. I've been a Hakko fanboy for decades my first Hakko iron was a 926, so when I saw the new 971 was out couldn't help myself. Presets are easy to save and select. Hot swappable tips works as advertised. The setback feature doesn't need a cable to the main unit anymore. Maybe a gyro sensor in the handpiece? Assembled a board today and was a good experience. Heats up fast, sleeps automatically, handpiece feels great, stand is solid. Ten out of ten would recommend.

FX-971 requires a new series of tips of course. T39 series. RMS didn't have my preferred hook tips in stock. TE has hook tips but shipping to Australia is too expensive. They're eye wateringly expensive too. Getting a full set of tips will cost as much as the iron.

I've also got a 888D and I don't think it "sucks" like the op stated. It's very basic but it works fine. I don't think any of the Hakko irons "suck". They're frequently overpriced but that's a different matter.

[Langdon]

I have a Hakko FX-888D station and I LOVE IT!!!!!

It is way better than an FX-600, and that's a pretty good iron.

The FX-888D is ergonomic, fast, and long-lasting.

P.S. If you also want a fume extractor and a desoldering station, consider buying the Xytronic LF-8800.


Disclaimer: I do not own a Xytronic LF-8800.
I own a Hakko FX-600 and a Hakko FX-888D.

I am in Ontario, Canada.

[Veteran68]

I have a Hakko FX-888D station and I LOVE IT!!!!!

It is way better than an FX-600, and that's a pretty good iron.

The FX-888D is ergonomic, fast, and long-lasting.

Different strokes and all that, but I have to ask if you have any experience with modern cartridge-based irons?

While I thought the 888D beat out the old school simple pencil irons in terms of ergonomics (horrible UI notwithstanding), it was still frustrating to solder well with compared to modern cartridge based irons. After getting my Pace ADS200, I couldn't even look at the 888D anymore. Even the several different Chinese T12 and JBC based USB irons I have work better than the 888D. It was just very inconsistent for me.

[coppice]

I have a Hakko FX-888D station and I LOVE IT!!!!!

It is way better than an FX-600, and that's a pretty good iron.

The FX-888D is ergonomic, fast, and long-lasting.

P.S. If you also want a fume extractor and a desoldering station, consider buying the Xytronic LF-8800.


Disclaimer: I do not own a Xytronic LF-8800.
I own a Hakko FX-600 and a Hakko FX-888D.

I am in Ontario, Canada.

I think the Hakko FX-888D was a great product when it was at its original price, but its not so great for the price people charge in most places now. If they got it back to well below $100 I would still think its good. It doesn't have the responsiveness of many modern products, but it lasts for years, and never causes you any trouble.

[shapirus]

Here's a less than obvious advice born from practical usage.

If you are buying a soldering station that has a sleep/standby function which is activated via detection of the handle not moving during a configured time, then try to find one where the movement detector is accelerometer-based rather than a contacts-and-ball switch based one.
The latter often fails to detect any movement when you're actually soldering with the handle being held at a constant angle, which is what usually happens. This makes the station go to sleep when you're soldering several joints and spend enough time without putting the handle into the stand. This is very annoying: you suddenly encounter that the solder stops melting like it should, then you look at the display to see that the station is falling asleep, because you failed to trigger the motion detection sensor.
The sensor has to be able to detect movement in more then one axis or be more sensitive otherwise. I bought some mercury vibration sensors to replace the mechanical one in my KSGER's T12 handle, but haven't tried them yet -- maybe they'll work better.

p.s. and yeah, I will join others: don't even consider stations that don't use cartridge tips. Get T12 at least, but if I were buying a new station today, I'd probably get something more powerful still, like T245, or whatever uses the most widely available tips. Something more powerful than a T12 will (depends on the typical use case though) rarely be needed, but when you do need it, with T12 it can be quite annoying to have to change the tips to beefier ones and/or increase temperature specifically to work in a certain spot that needs a lot of heat. Changing tips is a quick and easy operation, however.

[wraper]

I also don't like my FX888D, so I bought some chinese alternatives, which were using same tips, like CXG or Yuhua. Same sluggish performance.
Then friend suggested me T12. I tried several ones and finally found an excellent choice.

If you got the same performance, then FX888D was fake or was used with fake tips.

[beatman]

Here is my experience.I own the last 4 years the weller 1010 with medium to hard use.Broke only two tips chinzel 1.6 in 4 years.Clean every time the tip on distilled water sponge or brass wool.Generally i am happy with the station. Last winter by another one 1010 but is different the station get's more quick to the set temperature (few seconds) and  temperature is more stable when i solder.Playing with the offset settings on both units to much together i get better results in the older station (temp and stability) close but not the same performance like the new unit using the same tips.Inside the units are identical is all exactly the same (pcb chip traffo).i think is firmware relative the differences?Or better heat element sensor?Reverse the soldering iron new old - old new and nothing change.

[floobydust]

Copper is the new gold, the amount in tips is decreasing and I find more steel is being used, so thermal mass and heat transfer is not as good. Try a magnet.

I have an FX-888 and noticed the tips have a few thou smaller ID than 936 tips - which also fit but perform like shit for soldering anything where you need heat for more than a few seconds. That air gap makes the station perform not as good.
I find T12 clones are not so great because they have lots of steel in the tips and the plating is terrible for wetting.
Best for heat and through-hole is my WTCPN.