Recommend budget oscilloscope Please

[Juan]

Can anyone help me choose a budget priced oscilloscope for a beginner available online .

[radiolistener]

Siglent SDS1000X-E series are good budget oscilloscopes. They pretty cheap and have a lot of modern features

[tggzzz]

Can anyone help me choose a budget priced oscilloscope for a beginner available online .

If you look at all the other threads about that on this forum, you will see common themes are:

• define what you want to use it for. A car used for trips to the local shops won't be the best choice for a car used to transport equipment to a remote site, and vice versa, and it may turn out that a bicycle is the optimum choice
• define your budget
• understand how you can destroy the scope (and yourself) by using it incorrectly
• understand the correct class of probes for your uses, and allow for them in your budget
• understand the relationship between bandwidth and risetime of digital waveforms
• a small number of scopes are regularly recommended

[radiolistener]

tggzzz
I think it's too complicated for novice to read through all things related to oscilloscopes. He just asked for a help with select a starting oscilloscope which is not a crap and can be used for learning.

In short, Siglent SDS1000X-E series is a good choice for that. Of course, you can find more cheap oscilloscopes, but they have much less features and much more limited usage, so I don't recommend to buy them just because they are more cheap.

He can choice two channel or four channel SDS1000X-E as he wish, both are good and can cover any needs for a novice. But four channel one is a little more expensive.

[tggzzz]

tggzzz
I think it's too complicated for novice to read through all things related to oscilloscopes. He just asked for a help with select a starting oscilloscope which is not a crap and can be used for learning.

"All things"? I agree.

But doing basic research is a necessary skill that has to be learned before making forward progress (i.e. not random movement) in any topic, technical and otherwise

Defining your uses and budgets is a necessary first step that is useful in many circumstances, technical and otherwise.

Not being aware that using the scope+probes incorrectly can lead to "premature disappointment". How many beginners want to use the scope to observe the mains? There are many examples on this forum!

[Aldo22]

Can anyone help me choose a budget priced oscilloscope for a beginner available online .

If you really have no idea what you need, buy a ZEEWEII DSO2512G for ~$80 as your first oscilloscope.
It's definitely good enough for beginners and because it runs on battery, it protects you from certain mistakes.
It's easy to use and doesn't overwhelm you with features.

If you later find that you need a "decent" benchtop device, you still have a nice handheld oscilloscope that you will continue to use.
It's definitely good enough for your bat project. 

I have one these as my first oscilloscope and so far I don't need anything better for my purposes.
Here are some of my screenshots:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-2ch-pocket-dsosg-sigpeak-dso2512g/msg4783148/#msg4783148

[MrAl]

Can anyone help me choose a budget priced oscilloscope for a beginner available online .

Hi,

The real question is what do you want to use it for, what kind of circuits do you intend to 'begin' with.
This is an important question to be answered.

For example, if you just want to work on audio circuits then you can get a single channel scope for less than $40 on Amazon that has 1MS/s and bandwidth about 100kHz which actually works (i know because i got one long time ago).  It runs on batteries too so no mains grounding problems.
It also works for checking some things on automobiles although you need a special probe for looking at some signals like the spark plug high voltages.
If you need a dual channel scope (for looking at two signals at the same time so you can compare in time) then you need to go higher in price.

[radiolistener]

If you really have no idea what you need, buy a ZEEWEII DSO2512G for ~$80 as your first oscilloscope.

I don't recommend this device for novice who want to learn oscilloscope.

Such device has too many limitations and by design bugs, it can easily lead to confusion. In short it often shows incorrect waveform and user needs to be familiar with normal oscilloscope and know digital signal processing issues and limitations of this cheap device in order to properly interpret results from this device and understand its weak sides. This is almost impossible for novice, so using such device by novice leads to a confusion and wrong knowledge about oscilloscopes.

Actual usable bandwidth of this device is about max 1 MHz (which is definitely not enough for entry level modern hobby electronics), this device doesn't have proper anti-alias filter on the input, so it cannot work as a proper oscilloscope. It is designed as a fake oscolloscope to confuse newbies with it's cheap price and false specifications...

All what this "oscilloscope" can is just to show how waveform looks like for people who never seen it, but this is not proper measurement device. And you can look how waveform looks like on a pictures in the internet. There is no need to buy such a crap for this purpose.

This is why I don't recommended to buy cheaper oscilloscopes.
Siglent SDS1000X-E series is the cheapest entry level oscilloscope for proper learning.
All devices which are cheaper has very significantly less features, use very old outdated hardware and (as in the case with device from your link) has a lot of bugs and issues which prevents from using it in most cases.

If price for Siglent SDS1000X-E is too high for you, I would suggest to buy second-hand analog oscilloscope. It will cost you cheaper that this crap from your link, but you will get a real oscilloscope which can be used for measurements, instead of cheap crap with false specifications and a lot f bugs, troubles and limited usage.

There is a simple indication of such limited fake devices, if they have less than 1 GS/s sample rate, this is one of these fake "oscilloscope". But if there is 1GS/s label, don't believe, because some of chinese cheap fakes may have false specification that they have 1 GS/s, while real sample rate is about 0.1 GS/s, FNIRSI is an example of such lie...

The reason for that lie is that proper 1 GS/s oscilloscope needs at least high speed ADC and high speed FPGA for signal processing and their cost will be about 100 USD, so there is no way to get proper oscilloscope with ADC, FPGA, CPU, memory, display, RF frontend and other stuff which cost in total less than 100 USD.

If you're looking for deivice which cost about 100 USD or less, then I would recommend to looking for a good second-hand oscilloscope, but it should be some known brand oscilloscope, not a Chinese toy like this one from your link.

[radiolistener]

The real question is what do you want to use it for, what kind of circuits do you intend to 'begin' with.
This is an important question to be answered.

Actually I think there is no such question for novice, because proper entry level oscilloscope cover all needs which can do novice. If he want to measure something serious, he already have some knowledge and even probably have some experience with professional expensive oscilloscopes, so he already know which exactly oscilloscope he looking for.

Entry level oscilloscope needs at least 1 GS/s and 100-200 MHz of proper 3-dB bandwidth. Such oscilloscope allows to analyze circuits with signals up to 1-10 MHz which is good enough for a novice.

[Aldo22]

@radiolistener
I see my proposal really upsets you! That was not my intention. I'm sorry.

Come on, it's $80 for a 2 channel oscilloscope.
Even if it's only good for 1MHz, like you say, it's still cheap.

Juan was asked in the other thread, if he has an oscilloscope to test his bat repeller's 30KHz.
That's why he asked here, I assume.
I don't think he wants to pay a lot of money and delve deeper into the matter right away.
The "china crap" suffices for this purpose.

For the time being, the china crap is enough for me too.
You can learn a lot with this device, including its limitations, and then decide with this knowledge what kind of better device you want to buy.

[radiolistener]

Come on, it's $80 for a 2 channel oscilloscope.
Even if it's only good for 1MHz, like you say, it's still cheap.

I cannot name this Chinese toy as "oscilloscope". I know very well what is inside, how it works and all it's cons. And this is why I strongly not recommend to buy it, especially if you're novice and want to use it for learning. This is very bad choice for learning.

[radiolistener]

Juan was asked in the other thread, if he has an oscilloscope to test his bat repeller's 30KHz.

If you want just to discover bat repeller signal, there is no need for oscilloscope at all.
You can use PC or laptop sound card which has 96 or 192 kHz sample rate recording.

But if you want to measure something, you're needs a proper oscilloscope, not a Chinese toy.

[Aldo22]

@radiolistener
You certainly have a great deal of expertise and therefore also different demands on such a device.
If anything under 1 GS/s isn't an oscilloscope for you, then I respect that.
But there are also hobbyists like me and probably Juan who don't have such high standards and who are maybe not yet sure whether they want to invest in a "real" oscilloscope at all.

I own one of these, and while we won't call it an "oscilloscope," I use it to do what other people commonly do with oscilloscopes.
For me it shows plausible signals and measuring so far.
It serves the purpose for me, I'm learning quite a bit and I like this "toy".

You don't necessarily need a Porsche for driving school. 

[rstofer]

There are two commonly recommended scopes for entry level users:  The Rigol DS1054Z (unlocked to 100 MHz bandwidth, details elsewhere) and the Siglent SDS 1104X-E (100 MHz out of the box.  Both are 4 channels and this is really useful for decoding the SPI protocol.  Yes, it can be done with a logic analyzer and the scope choice could be limited to 2 channels.  I wouldn't do this.

Both of these are good quality scopes and the Siglent is a newer release.  I have the Rigol because the Siglent wasn't available.  Today, I would buy the Siglent.

The Siglent is $500 at Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0771N1ZF9

The Rigol is $350 at Amazon and entirely adequate:
https://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscilloscopes-Bandwidth/dp/B012938E76

Scopes costing much less than these are pretty limited in capability.  Grab the SDS1100 User Manual and read up on the capabilities.  Repeat for the DS1054Z

https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/08/SDS1000X-ESDS1000X-U_UserManual_EN05B.pdf
https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-050a/1/-/-/-/-/MSO1000Z%26DS1000Z_UserGuide.pdf

In any case, define your budget, define your application, discuss future needs and post back.  Or, use the Search Feature. 

Study this epic thread in its entirety.  Charlotte buys a Siglent scope at Reply 150 and then the fun starts

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-an-oscilloscope-recommended-for-a-woman-passionate-about-electronics/msg3100087/#msg3100087

[rstofer]

Here's a video that Dave did and it's apparently "Part 3" so there are two others somewhere (I didn't search).

https://www.eevblog.com/2023/04/06/eevblog-1536-how-to-find-a-50-oscilloscope-on-ebay-part-3/

He is talking about used analog scopes and if you get a good one they do a great job.  My workhorse for many years (predating the S1054Z) is a Tek 485 (350 MHz) that I bought for about $200 from eBay.

You need to understand that the reason people are moving to DSOs is for a) the price compared to new analog scopes and b) the features.  Analog scopes can only compete on bandwidth and I'm not sure of that.  Every other feature favors the DSO - by a LOT!

A modern DSO like the Siglent SDS1104X-E is just magic when compared to any analog scope. Except in terms of bandwidth.  I keep my Tek 485 because it has 350 MHz of bandwidth versus just 100 MHz on my Rigol.

[JeremyC]

Can anyone help me choose a budget priced oscilloscope for a beginner available online .

Juan, in addition to @rsofer recommendation you should check the Siglent SDS1104X-U, 4 channel, 100MHz scope. In the US it cost $399.
Link to product information: https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-u/

Dave's review:

[rstofer]

I thought the SDS1104X-U was just a SDS 1104X-E with some features removed to reach some price point.  I'm only going to buy one DSO and saving $100 but losing features doesn't seem like a good way to go - for me...

https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-U-Phosphor-Oscilloscopes/dp/B08PD3WKCZ

Grab the datasheets and compare.  Go over to the Test Equipment forum and search for the U variant.  See what users think.

[tggzzz]

The real question is what do you want to use it for, what kind of circuits do you intend to 'begin' with.
This is an important question to be answered.

Actually I think there is no such question for novice, because proper entry level oscilloscope cover all needs which can do novice. If he want to measure something serious, he already have some knowledge and even probably have some experience with professional expensive oscilloscopes, so he already know which exactly oscilloscope he looking for.

Too many beginners want to do something "silly" with a scope. That goes with them being beginners! Beginners don't have enough knowledge to understand what could be classified as "something serious".

Being able to articulate what you want to use the X for (i.e. not X's characteristics) is important, whether X is a scope, boat, car, cooking pan, shelf, etc etc.

Hence "what's the use case" is the reasonable and sensible first question that needs to be answered.

[tatel]

Having been an speleologist until I grew too old and fat, I can't understand what could the bats do that drives you nuts, unless they poop all over you? I'm very interested in what the problem could be, really. Would you mind to explain a little more about it?

First logical step would be to identify the species. This would give you additional clues, and perhaps provide a solution that would work better without needing neither to learn electronics nor using ultrasonic booms. Moreover, are you sure that method would be effective? I somewhat doubt it.

So, first advice would be to contact some brazilian biologist working with bats. Just google for papers published. That alone would probably get you a trove of useful knowledge. If you are just interested in getting rid of bats, and electronics is just a means to achieve that, even to pay some hundred equivalent euros to a biologist would probably be cheaper, faster and surely more effective than getting into this rabbit hole

OTOH, if they are insectivore, as most bats are, it could be wise to leave them do its thing. Otherwise you could escape from the pan just to fall in the fire. I for one would rather prefer having hundreds or even thousands of insectivore bats feeding around my home than to have to deal with bloody sucking insects, even if mosquitos are just a small part from their diet.

Now on the oscilloscope part: If you aren't particularly interested in electronics, and all you want is to get rid of bats, all you need is a means to check if you are producing the frequency you need or little more. As radiolistener said, it could be that the sound card in your PC would be enough. Alternatively, a DMM with frequency meter could do too. Or a Zeeweii DSO154Pro for about €40. I own one and I can assure you it will work up to >10 MHz. https://br.aliexpress.com/item/1005004972406356.html . Link to the relevant thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-dso154pro-1ch-claimed-40mss/msg4531274/#msg4531274 It also has a frequency generator that will surely work in your range. Again, if all you want is to get ride of bats, I think you need not more than that.

If you are interested in electronics and are on a really low budget, I think the Zeeweii DSO2512 suggested by Aldo22 would be better than the DSO154Pro since it's dual channel and has enough bandwidth to look into PSUs, etc. I don't have one, so I can't really say how good it is. But after reading the thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-2ch-pocket-dsosg-sigpeak-dso2512g/msg3547154/#msg3547154 and my own experience with the DSO154, I would say go for it. It will be enough to increase your knowledge by a couple orders of magnitude. Then you could decide by yourself what the next oscilloscope will be, and it will remain useful as a litlle, battery-powered, portable oscilloscope you are not so afraid of wrecking it, and still able to do what it can do.

The second-hand option? I wouldn't recommend it. Of course it could be that you'll be able to find a bargain, but I doubt you'll easily find anything for less than 150 euro/dollars, plus shipping (boat anchor > 7 Kg), it will do just 20MHz, perhaps 50 MHz if you are lucky, it will probably be 30 years old, and even if it's working today, you don't know it some component or even the screen will die just tomorrow.  Then you could be in for a rough ride to, first, find the spare parts, then to fix it. After your posts, I don't think it would be an easy task for you right now, and is often said that to fix an oscilloscope you need another oscilloscope.

If you are interested in electronics and have a budget some hundreds of euros/$, then we have the usual suspects: Entry-level 4-channel benchtop oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, GW-Instek GDS1054B and Siglent SDS1104X-E. I own the GW-Instek and am happy with it. The Siglent is the one that has more bandwidth, 100 MHz that can be upgraded to 200 MHz, while the other two are 50 MHx devices that can be upgraded to 100 MHz.  So, the Siglent could be the more future-proof option in you electronics career. Just don't think its MSO option will work "fine". All these three oscilloscopes are good entry-level devices, that's why I decided to buy the cheaper GW Instek instead. You'll have to search the forum for the relevant threads and decide by yourself.

Last, if you have about 1000 bucks or more to spend, look for Rigol MSO5074 or Siglent SDS2104X Plus. This Siglent is all any hobbyst will ever need, I think. I was on the brink of buying it. But finally I decided to go with an entry-level one, which made me able to buy other equipement like soldering station, desoldering gun, hot air rework station, linear PSU, AWG, logic analyzer, etc, that allow me to play more than just an oscilloscope would.

Boa sorte

[rstofer]

You don't necessarily need a Porsche for driving school. 

Yes... Yes you do!  Otherwise that Dodge Charger Hellcat might get away from you.

https://www.dodge.com/charger/srt.html

[tggzzz]

... is a Tek 485 (350 MHz) that I bought for about $200 from eBay.

I've just bought yet another 485, for £30. The bits that might not work after cleaning the internals should be covered by working bits in my parts mule. First actions: replace those bloody 15V decoupling tants on the 13V PSU rail, and clean everything!

No, a broken scope isn't suitable for a beginner, but a cheap working analogue scope might be ideal for the OP - we don't have enough information (e.g. budget, uses, ...).

[Juan]

OK thanks for the many replies . I can see now I was too vague , sorry for that failure on my part .
After reading I can see that I need a scope that covers from low frequencies like say 10 khz up to 110 mhz .
When I said budget that was stupid of me and I meant around $500 US not 3 grand .
I don't think I like the wave  display of a digital scope its way too confusing to me . A analog should be fine .
I will look at the Rigol and Siglent as you advise . Obrigado eu preciso de um pouco de sorte .

[Juan]

Those two scopes look very good but are out of my price range .  I will do some  more research and see what other models Siglent and Rigol have . Now I have the brands to look at .

[tggzzz]

After reading I can see that I need a scope that covers from low frequencies like say 10 khz up to 110 mhz .

What are you going to use it to do?

[tatel]

Here's a video that Dave did and it's apparently "Part 3" so there are two others somewhere (I didn't search).

https://www.eevblog.com/2023/04/06/eevblog-1536-how-to-find-a-50-oscilloscope-on-ebay-part-3/

He is talking about used analog scopes and if you get a good one they do a great job.  My workhorse for many years (predating the S1054Z) is a Tek 485 (350 MHz) that I bought for about $200 from eBay.

You need to understand that the reason people are moving to DSOs is for a) the price compared to new analog scopes and b) the features.  Analog scopes can only compete on bandwidth and I'm not sure of that.  Every other feature favors the DSO - by a LOT!

A modern DSO like the Siglent SDS1104X-E is just magic when compared to any analog scope. Except in terms of bandwidth.  I keep my Tek 485 because it has 350 MHz of bandwidth versus just 100 MHz on my Rigol.

Sorry, but that video is totally useless for anyone outside of the US (perhaps America, IDK). Shipping from US to Europe is incredibly expensive, sometimes $200-300 are asked for shipping, then you have to pay import taxes and VAT over item price + shipping. Perhaps US couriers are making a lot of money, but no wonder about at least one reason why the chinese are eating US porridge. UK is a little bit the same, shipping and taxes will add over €50 to item price (I mean used oscilloscope) . You'd quite probably have to pay a fee to the courier for customs paperwork, too. I would say, not less than €20. I had to pay that custom paperwork fee last February when I bought my Leo Bodnar's pulser. Usually more like €50. You can avoid that fee by doing that paperwork yourself, but it isn't that easy, particularly when couriers like FedEx, DHL and so on give you bad shipment data, like dividing your shipment to multiply your paperwork and giving you, say, a bad country code. So your shipment remains at customs for about three months and you ned a lot of luck and help from customs officers. Been there, done that. Not to mention strikes at Royal Mail that make your item remain in Heathrow for about a month. Buying from China is not just cheaper, but easier and faster. So, from some years ago, I dont buy anything from US/UK unless absolutely unavoidable, sorry. I used to do it often before that.

About the prices of second-hand oscilloscopes in Europe: please do an advanced search on eBay for used "analog 20 MHz oscilloscope", choose European Union  as item location, then cry or laugh at will. You'll easily find 30 years old, 20 MHz Hamegs quoted between €175-350 plus shipping, and it seems that most of the sellers can't be bothered to show traces on the screen. I was following a Hameg HM203-7, it sold for €150 + €25 shipping two days ago. I didn't even bothered to make any bid from the moment I saw there were automatic bids at work. These seem to be the usual prices right now. It's quite rare to find any better deal and almost impossible to get a working one for less than €120, delivered. €50 and even €80 are asked for non-working ones. ntcnico's usual advice to make an offer for 30% of the asked price will just make the seller laugh at your face. Look for a Toshiba 150BTB31B CRT (for a Goldstar OS-7020) and you'll find one sold as-is for $30+81 shipping, marked "SCRAP" on the screen: https://www.ebay.com/itm/401710075697?. A similar, new one will set you $85+30 back: https://www.ebay.com/itm/353379098595

BTW, things have also changed on the 4-channel benchtop european DSO front. IIRC, GW Instek GDS1054B was €350+VAT and shipping when I bought mine two years ago. It's now €465 at eleshop and €473 at TME. Plus VAT and shipping. That makes Siglent SDS1104X-E cheaper right now: €429 + VAT and shipping at eleshop, €509 at amazon, delivered. Rigol DS1054Z remains the cheapest: €339+VAT and shipping at eleshop, €410 at amazon, delivered. So the Instek can't be recommended anymore, I think

Now, if a 30 years old, 20 MHz, analog oscilloscope can be recommended for a beginner, I can't understand why a modern Zeeweii 2512 DSO can't. For a hundred bucks it can do all the 20 MHz analogs do,  plus it has a function generator, plus it can store screenshots, plus it's portable, battery-powered, mains-isolated, come with two probes and, above all, is brand new. I can't understand why radiolistener shows so much comptent for it, unless it's because the fake claims it can do 120 MHz . The chinese are shooting their own feet doing that. Should they say it's a 20 MHz oscilloscope, perception could be different.

So, perhaps, the usual advice to a beginner should change, particularly if that beginner has a low budget or lives in a country where import taxes are heavy. OP could do what it needs with that cheap "toy". I think it could do quite a lot of arduino projects, too. After learning with that "toy", he could decide what he wants next. Of course, if money isn't a problem, a benchtop scope would be "better". But €300-400 saved could make for some other equipement that quite probably will also be needed. Am I missing something?