Oscilloscope advice

[tggzzz]

The "it might come in" (i.e might turn out to be useful) trap is indeed beguiling.

If the feature is cost-effective in all dimensions, then getting the feature is a no brainer. But if there is a cost (direct or indirect or especially lost opportunity), the decision is much more finely balanced.

For basic faultfinding there is a strong argument you only need a basic scope. Any scope is better than no scope

There are many forms of testing/faultfinding that are better addressed by different equipment. A classic example, which is outside your current requirements, is looking at digital signals.

If you are interested in distortion, for example, then a dedicated distortion meter might be useful.

IMHO there is a strong arguments for starting with something cheap and simple, then moving up when you know which direction represents up.

[spear]

.. due to limited space (in my shed) ...

Taking that comment literally:

Beware of damp! Particularly with crt scopes, it's a killer...

Thanks for the warning re damp. There are sheds and there are sheds, this one is dry and well insulated

[spear]

[/quote]

On the general subject of size, a modern DSO is way shallower than a CRT analogue scope, and lighter too,but the front panel dimensions of my DS1102Z-E are almost exactly the same as my old Tek 475A analogue. Size can mean different things in different situations.
[/quote]
Would you recommend the DS1102Z-E?

[tautech]

I just have enough space for a small shelf over the worktop that would accommodate a digital scope.

Indeed. You really don't need some 20+ year old analog door stop of unknown provenance and condition, most of which are (imho) still at silly asking prices for what they are in today's scope market.

For the budget you've indicated, and given that you're in the UK, I suggest that you have a look at what Telonic.co.uk can supply. (NOTE; I'm not affiliated or connected with them in any way, nor do I gain anything from recommending them. It's just that I've used them in the past and been pleased with their pricing and customer service).

Rigol DS1102Z-E        243 GBP inc. VAT
Rigol DHO802            345 GBP inc. VAT
Siglent SDS802X-HD  374 GBP inc. VAT

Thanks for the info, will have a look at these

Your requirements are pretty basic however don't overlook features that you might grow into as experience, skill and knowledge develops.
Even the $290 SDS1052DL+ will meet your needs although it's a pretty basic but reliable DSO.

[NE666]

Even the $290 SDS1052DL+ will meet your needs although it's a pretty basic but reliable DSO.

Not readily available in the UK and where it is, it is a very poor feature/value competitor with the other models I listed.

[Xena E]

Why "particularly with crt scopes"?

N.B. Tek used to recommend cleaning their scopes' interior with detergent and water in a "wash booth". See https://w140.com/tekwiki/images/6/63/Tekscope_1976_V8_N4_with_Supplement.pdf p13ff. No, I wouldn't do it either, but it does indicate why your comment may not be correct.

The speed of the detergent wash and the 24 hours in a drying oven would seem to be an obvious difference from cold damp storage. I would expect damage to a DSO too, especially things like the encoders and maybe tactile button PCB pads.

That cleaning procedure does look brutal though - Furniture polish and WD40 on the switches and pots? Ajax for the front panel! 


EDIT: As far as why CRT scopes, EHT and cathode bias voltage supplies come to mind.

The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there

Completely unconvinced that the 2450V is relevant, provided it isn't damp when switched on. My Tek485 (which I bought on a whim while collecting a 465 CRT) had been stored in something not far away from a  farm shed, worked just fine apart from some unsubtle and some subtle electrolytic cap problems. The 465 CRT had been stored similarly.

OTOH I have, of course, found damp damaged equipment - but without CRTs/kV.

Hence I still think Xena E's comment needs justification.

Not only crt scopes but yes, particularly those, especially vintage ones. Older gear with its shellac and waxed craft paper insulated transformers are going to very quicky be fucked.

Comment based on temperature gradients in the average outbuilding, formation of moisture on internal surfaces, degradation of insulation and failure of mains transformers. Moisture absorbtion by components and circuit boards.

Personal experience based on acquisition of four scopes free, due to the owner having stored them from working purchases, in a typical "shed" for a number of years.

All were dried thoroughly before attempting use.

Three were badly damaged internally by damp ingress.
A Cossor 1035 that had a shorted EHT winding on the mains transformer, and on investigation and removal of the winding before repair, was found to have internal green corrosion.

Tektronix 310s, with a buggered transformer.

An Kikusui 7100 (?) BER With switching and controls damaged  as well as tracking circuit board material.

Yes I understand that it's possibly recommended to wash and bake equipment, I've cleaned vintage stuff with a pressure washer and TFR, then baking it dry... but to operate it wet or allow it to stay wet, is no comparison.

I sense that comments made are done so by persons possibly accommodating their equipment in a 'shed', if it's dry, and kept at a stable temperature that prevents the formation of condensation, that's OK.

Drying equipment out when already damaged won't do FA to help.

I know there will always be the contributors that will give examples of sensitive electronic equipment working fine after being fished out of the local duck pond, or years in a mouldy old shed, but that's just jammy good luck or a load of old bollocks.

.. due to limited space (in my shed) ...

Taking that comment literally:

Beware of damp! Particularly with crt scopes, it's a killer...

Thanks for the warning re damp. There are sheds and there are sheds, this one is dry and well insulated

  then you're OK!

[tggzzz]

Why "particularly with crt scopes"?

N.B. Tek used to recommend cleaning their scopes' interior with detergent and water in a "wash booth". See https://w140.com/tekwiki/images/6/63/Tekscope_1976_V8_N4_with_Supplement.pdf p13ff. No, I wouldn't do it either, but it does indicate why your comment may not be correct.

The speed of the detergent wash and the 24 hours in a drying oven would seem to be an obvious difference from cold damp storage. I would expect damage to a DSO too, especially things like the encoders and maybe tactile button PCB pads.

That cleaning procedure does look brutal though - Furniture polish and WD40 on the switches and pots? Ajax for the front panel! 


EDIT: As far as why CRT scopes, EHT and cathode bias voltage supplies come to mind.

The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there

Completely unconvinced that the 2450V is relevant, provided it isn't damp when switched on. My Tek485 (which I bought on a whim while collecting a 465 CRT) had been stored in something not far away from a  farm shed, worked just fine apart from some unsubtle and some subtle electrolytic cap problems. The 465 CRT had been stored similarly.

OTOH I have, of course, found damp damaged equipment - but without CRTs/kV.

Hence I still think Xena E's comment needs justification.

Not only crt scopes but yes, particularly those, especially vintage ones. Older gear with its shellac and waxed craft paper insulated transformers are going to very quicky be fucked.

Comment based on temperature gradients in the average outbuilding, formation of moisture on internal surfaces, degradation of insulation and failure of mains transformers. Moisture absorbtion by components and circuit boards.

Personal experience based on acquisition of four scopes free, due to the owner having stored them from working purchases, in a typical "shed" for a number of years.

All were dried thoroughly before attempting use.

Three were badly damaged internally by damp ingress.
A Cossor 1035 that had a shorted EHT winding on the mains transformer, and on investigation and removal of the winding before repair, was found to have internal green corrosion.

Tektronix 310s, with a buggered transformer.

An Kikusui 7100 (?) BER With switching and controls damaged  as well as tracking circuit board material.

Yes I understand that it's possibly recommended to wash and bake equipment, I've cleaned vintage stuff with a pressure washer and TFR, then baking it dry... but to operate it wet or allow it to stay wet, is no comparison.

I sense that comments made are done so by persons possibly accommodating their equipment in a 'shed', if it's dry, and kept at a stable temperature that prevents the formation of condensation, that's OK.

Drying equipment out when already damaged won't do FA to help.

I know there will always be the contributors that will give examples of sensitive electronic equipment working fine after being fished out of the local duck pond, or years in a mouldy old shed, but that's just jammy good luck or a load of old bollocks.

So, as I expected, the specific reference to CRT scopes isn't valid.

Old equipment badly stored, well of course that can be a problem. So can putrid components such as modern alkaline batteries.

Not all CRT equipment is like that, of course. I have had several 50yo Tek1502s that can be stored under 12inches of water. The main problem is the putrid batteries.

[Xena E]

So, as I expected, the specific reference to CRT scopes isn't valid.

 

I said Particularly not specifically.

Mostly based on mains derived EHT overwinds... very susceptible. But ... news flash ... moisture and bench test equipment are not best friends.

... I have had several 50yo Tek1502s that can be stored under 12inches of water. The main problem is the putrid batteries.

Strawman argument par excellence! Well done.   👏😃

A Tek 1502 is a reflectometer  it's not a bench oscilloscope. and it was designed to be sealed against moisture ingress...

My comment was meant to help the OP, if you want to keep your kit at the bottom of the Atlantic, please feel free to do so.

😁👍

 🤣

Regards,
Xena.

[tautech]

Even the $290 SDS1052DL+ will meet your needs although it's a pretty basic but reliable DSO.

Not readily available in the UK and where it is, it is a very poor feature/value competitor with the other models I listed.

100%
UK is supplied from Germany HQ to which the UK sellers are regularly placing orders so models not in local stock can be sourced promptly.
That's why we don't stock SDS1052DL+ and instead settle for SDS802X HD as our base model 2ch DSO which are totally in a different league to even the others you listed.

[tggzzz]

So, as I expected, the specific reference to CRT scopes isn't valid.

 

I said Particularly not specifically.

In English "particularly" means "specifically" and/or "especially". Or are you using another less usual meaning of "particularly? If so, enlighten us.

FFI see any dictionary, e.g. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/particularly https://www.wordnik.com/words/particularly

Mostly based on mains derived EHT overwinds... very susceptible. But ... news flash ... moisture and bench test equipment are not best friends.

... I have had several 50yo Tek1502s that can be stored under 12inches of water. The main problem is the putrid batteries.

Strawman argument par excellence! Well done.   👏😃

A Tek 1502 is a reflectometer  it's not a bench oscilloscope. and it was designed to be sealed against moisture ingress...

My comment was meant to help the OP, if you want to keep your kit at the bottom of the Atlantic, please feel free to do so.

😁👍

 🤣

Regards,
Xena.

Your comment may have been meant to help the OP, but it was - as you have "clarified" - wrong.

As per your original statement "Particularly with crt scopes, it's a killer...", the Tek1502 is a CRT scope, combined with a signal generator.

It is a small instrument that fits easily on a bench.

>80% of the 1502s I've had have not been sealed against moisture ingress. One of them might have been, but I never put it to the test.

[Xena E]

In English "particularly" means "specifically" and/or "especially". Or are you using another less usual meaning of "particularly? If so, enlighten us.

Your comment may have been meant to help the OP, but it was - as you have "clarified" - wrong.

OK. I sense this seems important to you, so have it your way, though I'm not sure quite what point you want to make?

My meaning was "****** but not meaning exclusively". My apologies, English is a third language, (insert your own word).

Perhaps the 'moisture' affected equipment that I've seen was caused by some other phenomenon being as you have so kindly pointed out that I am wrong.

Regards,
Xena.

[tggzzz]

In English "particularly" means "specifically" and/or "especially". Or are you using another less usual meaning of "particularly? If so, enlighten us.

Your comment may have been meant to help the OP, but it was - as you have "clarified" - wrong.

OK. I sense this seems important to you, so have it your way, though I'm not sure quite what point you want to make?

My meaning was "****** but not meaning exclusively". My apologies, English is a third language, (insert your own word).

Perhaps the 'moisture' affected equipment that I've seen was caused by some other phenomenon being as you have so kindly pointed out that I am wrong.

Regards,
Xena.

If you are going to correct someone else's language, it is wise to be sure that your correction is correct. Given "Xena" can be used to imply "foreign/stranger", I did wonder if English wasn't your native language. ("Wonder" because your English is pretty good.)

I strongly suspect that damp/moisture did affect the other equipment; there are many obvious and subtle mechanisms by which that can happen. It can also happen even when stored in non-damp domestic rooms, e.g. the infamous RIFA capacitors which should be replaced on sight. But you claimed that "CRT scopes" are especially susceptible to damage by those mechanisms; they aren't.

Everyone makes mistakes, and the best course of action is to admit the mistake or clarify the intended meaning, as appropriate. You chose to do the opposite.

[tautech]

In English "particularly" means "specifically" and/or "especially". Or are you using another less usual meaning of "particularly? If so, enlighten us.

Your comment may have been meant to help the OP, but it was - as you have "clarified" - wrong.

OK. I sense this seems important to you, so have it your way, though I'm not sure quite what point you want to make?

My meaning was "****** but not meaning exclusively". My apologies, English is a third language, (insert your own word).

Perhaps the 'moisture' affected equipment that I've seen was caused by some other phenomenon being as you have so kindly pointed out that I am wrong.

Regards,
Xena.

If you are going to correct someone else's language, it is wise to be sure that your correction is correct. Given "Xena" can be used to imply "foreign/stranger", I did wonder if English wasn't your native language. ("Wonder" because your English is pretty good.)

Yet the original Xena we all know and love is K1W1 and her English is as good as yours or mine.

[tatel]

If you want a DSO that will allow you to grow into it, then I would go for some of the new 12-bit models, probably with 4 channels, even if you only need 2 channels at this time. Probably a Siglent better than a Rigol. That would be the most future-proof option IMHO.

[tggzzz]

In English "particularly" means "specifically" and/or "especially". Or are you using another less usual meaning of "particularly? If so, enlighten us.

Your comment may have been meant to help the OP, but it was - as you have "clarified" - wrong.

OK. I sense this seems important to you, so have it your way, though I'm not sure quite what point you want to make?

My meaning was "****** but not meaning exclusively". My apologies, English is a third language, (insert your own word).

Perhaps the 'moisture' affected equipment that I've seen was caused by some other phenomenon being as you have so kindly pointed out that I am wrong.

Regards,
Xena.

If you are going to correct someone else's language, it is wise to be sure that your correction is correct. Given "Xena" can be used to imply "foreign/stranger", I did wonder if English wasn't your native language. ("Wonder" because your English is pretty good.)

Yet the original Xena we all know and love is K1W1 and her English is as good as yours or mine.

In that case, in what does she mean by "English is a third language"? I presume English is widely spoken in New Zealand!

[tggzzz]

If you want a DSO that will allow you to grow into it, then I would go for some of the new 12-bit models, probably with 4 channels, even if you only need 2 channels at this time. Probably a Siglent better than a Rigol. That would be the most future-proof option IMHO.

For audio 12-bit would be better than 8-bit, especially when looking at the frequency domain. 14-bit would be even better, of course.

For audio, the noise level might be an important consideration. The scope determines the quantisation and thermal noise, but not EMI. (My house is riddled with 96.4MHz)

For valve audio equipment, withstanding high voltages might be important. (Alternative: use cheap disposable equipment)

With high voltages, attaching a probe, moving hands away, and only then turning on equipment is an important safety technique. That can be difficult where components don't have leads, e.g. much ordinary low voltage equipment.

Whenever safe, being able to quickly and easily move a probe between nodes is very desirable. If the trace is not visible next to the probe, there is an increased the chance the probe will move/slip. For that reason, I strongly prefer the scope to be on the bench.

[Xena E]

In English "particularly" means "specifically" and/or "especially". Or are you using another less usual meaning of "particularly? If so, enlighten us.

Your comment may have been meant to help the OP, but it was - as you have "clarified" - wrong.

OK. I sense this seems important to you, so have it your way, though I'm not sure quite what point you want to make?

My meaning was "****** but not meaning exclusively". My apologies, English is a third language, (insert your own word).

Perhaps the 'moisture' affected equipment that I've seen was caused by some other phenomenon being as you have so kindly pointed out that I am wrong.

Regards,
Xena.

If you are going to correct someone else's language, it is wise to be sure that your correction is correct. Given "Xena" can be used to imply "foreign/stranger", I did wonder if English wasn't your native language. ("Wonder" because your English is pretty good.)

I strongly suspect that damp/moisture did affect the other equipment; there are many obvious and subtle mechanisms by which that can happen. It can also happen even when stored in non-damp domestic rooms, e.g. the infamous RIFA capacitors which should be replaced on sight. But you claimed that "CRT scopes" are especially susceptible to damage by those mechanisms; they aren't.

Everyone makes mistakes, and the best course of action is to admit the mistake or clarify the intended meaning, as appropriate. You chose to do the opposite.

If I make a mistake, I apologise, I will apologise to you as you seem to consider I have offended you for which I am truly sorry.

My original post was, if it's not clear, warning of the possible dangers of damp storage, I said Particularly CRT scopes because of the greater risks to the EHT for the final anode, (or cathode as is often the case), causing permanent damage to the insulation. If this is incorrect then again I'm sorry, but unless proven otherwise I will continue to hold that belief.

Yes low voltage gear will also suffer, but an eht overwind flash over is often  immediately fatal to the equipment, and in my opinion a more likely scenario in stressed insulation, causing permanent damage.

As to semantics, to my education particularly  means foremost or most importantly, not exclusively when used to sufix a statement. Perhaps I should have annunciated the general risk to electrical equipment as an anterior comment, for it to make sense.

I read your posts to suggest that it didn’t matter that an oscilloscope became damp! I was greatly amused that you  claimed your Tektronix  1502 TDR would work in 12 feet depth of water: Thank you for the correction by the way, I have always understood 'TDR' to stand for 'Time Domain Reflectometer, I wasn't aware they were considered as being general purpose oscilloscopes... that doesn't mater, it is not of any interest to me, but thank you, now I know.

If you think I make a mistake, again, as it seems to be important to you and make you upset, I am sorry, but I still don't grasp your point, and I can't appreciate it's importance to you.

Regards,
Xena.

[tggzzz]

In English "particularly" means "specifically" and/or "especially". Or are you using another less usual meaning of "particularly? If so, enlighten us.

Your comment may have been meant to help the OP, but it was - as you have "clarified" - wrong.

OK. I sense this seems important to you, so have it your way, though I'm not sure quite what point you want to make?

My meaning was "****** but not meaning exclusively". My apologies, English is a third language, (insert your own word).

Perhaps the 'moisture' affected equipment that I've seen was caused by some other phenomenon being as you have so kindly pointed out that I am wrong.

Regards,
Xena.

If you are going to correct someone else's language, it is wise to be sure that your correction is correct. Given "Xena" can be used to imply "foreign/stranger", I did wonder if English wasn't your native language. ("Wonder" because your English is pretty good.)

I strongly suspect that damp/moisture did affect the other equipment; there are many obvious and subtle mechanisms by which that can happen. It can also happen even when stored in non-damp domestic rooms, e.g. the infamous RIFA capacitors which should be replaced on sight. But you claimed that "CRT scopes" are especially susceptible to damage by those mechanisms; they aren't.

Everyone makes mistakes, and the best course of action is to admit the mistake or clarify the intended meaning, as appropriate. You chose to do the opposite.

If I make a mistake, I apologise, I will apologise to you as you seem to consider I have offended you for which I am truly sorry.

My original post was, if it's not clear, warning of the possible dangers of damp storage, I said Particularly CRT scopes because of the greater risks to the EHT for the final anode, (or cathode as is often the case), causing permanent damage to the insulation. If this is incorrect then again I'm sorry, but unless proven otherwise I will continue to hold that belief.

Yes low voltage gear will also suffer, but an eht overwind flash over is often  immediately fatal to the equipment, and in my opinion a more likely scenario in stressed insulation, causing permanent damage.

As to semantics, to my education particularly  means foremost or most importantly, not exclusively when used to sufix a statement. Perhaps I should have annunciated the general risk to electrical equipment as an anterior comment, for it to make sense.

I read your posts to suggest that it didn’t matter that an oscilloscope became damp! I was greatly amused that you  claimed your Tektronix  1502 TDR would work in 12 feet depth of water: Thank you for the correction by the way, I have always understood 'TDR' to stand for 'Time Domain Reflectometer, I wasn't aware they were considered as being general purpose oscilloscopes... that doesn't mater, it is not of any interest to me, but thank you, now I know.

If you think I make a mistake, again, as it seems to be important to you and make you upset, I am sorry, but I still don't grasp your point, and I can't appreciate it's importance to you.

Regards,
Xena.

A TDR cannot be used as a general purpose scope - and nobody has suggested they can. OTOH a general purpose scope can be used as a TDR: just add a signal generator as found in a TDR.

That TDR uses exactly the same circuits and technology as other CRT-based scopes, and so it has the same.failure mechanisms. Since it can be stored in 12inches of water (and operated in the driving rain), clearly damp is not a complete killer.

We agree damp storage can be a problem, for all equipment. RIFA delayed action smoke generators are always a problem even in non-damp storage; the humidity slowly penetrates the epoxy coating.

Anyway, we seem to have come to an agreement/understanding about this sub-topic.

[Gyro]

On the general subject of size, a modern DSO is way shallower than a CRT analogue scope, and lighter too,but the front panel dimensions of my DS1102Z-E are almost exactly the same as my old Tek 475A analogue. Size can mean different things in different situations.

Would you recommend the DS1102Z-E?

(Quote fixed)

Getting back on topic...

Would I recommend the DS1102Z-E? For me - yes, for you - I don't know. I'd been thinking of a desktop DSO for a while and bought it because it was on offer on Amazon for £235, probably the second most amount I've spent on an item of TE. For me, the reason was a nice deep buffer for capturing and looking at infrequent events. Siglents are reputed to be easier to drive, but it's intuitive enough for me, I've got used to loads of different scopes over the decades so the cost difference wasn't worth it for me. It's good and solidly constructed and does everything I want. If you want to look at Dave's review and teardown videos, it's simply the DS1054Z but with two channels and an ext trigger rather than four and has all the options factory enabled. One thing I have found to be a surprising source of irritation is the need to transfer screen captures to the PC via memory stick rather than just clicking the save button on a USB scope, I wasn't expecting that to bug me so much. I'm not going to go to the hassle of networking or USB hosting though, I'm running Linux anyway and the Rigol app doesn't support that.

I don't subscribe to Dave's 'beginner entry level scope' mindset or the 'why do they still make 2 channel scopes' (because you can buy them cheaper!). I buy tools to do the jobs that I want to do. I've had a decent high bandwidth Tek analogue scope for nearly 40 years, which is still good for RF stuff.

I bought a 16 bit Picoscope ADC216 20 years ago, literally just before they discontinued them and shamed/conned Pico into giving me one of their last remaining USB parallel adaptors. I added a USB isolator and linear regulated PSU to get rid of the very small residual 50Hz harmonics and with it's low 333kS/s sample rate it is as quiet as the grave for low distortion, low noise audio. That was probably my most expensive TE purchase ever. I need to run it in an XP 32bit virtual machine but that's fine.

Other than that, in 2015 I bought one of the first VDS1022I isolated USB scopes and I think I did the first ever teardown, which sort of became the master thread ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/ ). It's a handy little, easy to drive, 25MHz 100MS/s scope that is still available and does most things well, especially with the alternative S/W that's available. The only shortcoming is the small 4k buffer and no protocol decoders but that's not an issue unless you want to capture infrequent events.

The number of bits you need depends on what you are doing with these audio amps. If you were planning design and upgrades then number of bits would be more important for distortion analysis. If you just want to see how far the signal is getting and whether it's basically the right shape then 8 bit is probably fine and the simpler to drive, the better. Even for audio bandwidth, it is good to have a scope that goes to a few MHz to look for oscillations. As for a signal generator, I don't have an AWG or MSO or whatever, just a nice second hand analogue very low distortion Topward signal generator and a Function generator to go with my 16 bit Pico. I don't need some fancy box with a big LCD display, encoders and keypads that looks like a scope itself to produce a 1kHz or 10kHz sinewave (likewise power supplies). Keep an eye on ebay and make sure you can get a service manual.

Only you know what you are going to do in future. If you're going to get into micros, higher speed logic etc. then facto those in now. If your ambitions don't go any further than repairing basic audio gear, then my attitude is buy the tools to do that job and divide your budget accordingly.

[rstofer]

To my limited knowledge, there are two features of a DSO that are not available on an analog scope:  Single shot trigger which is useful when triggering just once on a specific event, freezing the image and preventing overwriting the image should a second trigger occur.  Second, the Auto button which will analyze the signal and set the t/div and V/div automatically.  Will it always be the exact setting you need?  Probably not...  But it will get the scope out of some squirrelly setup used previously and get a trace on the screen.

These two features make the DSO much more useful than an obsolete analog scope.  However, you can buy a lot more bandwidth for little money with a used analog scope.  Hence, I have an old Tek 485 for 350 MHz bandwidth and a Rigol DS1054Z for daily use and features.

https://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscilloscopes-Bandwidth/dp/B012938E76

These days I would probably buy one of the Siglent scopes but the Rigol serves me pretty well.

OTOH, were I just starting out in electronics, I would take a long look at the Digilent Analog Discovery 3.  Two channel scope, two channel arbitrary waveform generator, dual power supply (limited low voltage) and a bunch of digital IO for protocol analysis or simple IO.  Of course, all of the functionality can be controlled via a script if desired.  This is a very useful gadget for the student.

https://digilent.com/shop/test-and-measurement-devices/essential-instruments/analog-discovery-3/

[BillyO]

To my limited knowledge, there are two features of a DSO that are not available on an analog scope:  Single shot trigger...

Beg to differ on this, not that it matters other than "the facts".  Even my Tek 465 has single shot trigger.  Usually used with a camera to get clean trace records.  So, there are quite a few high end CRO scopes that have this feature.  Jus' say'n.

[Gyro]

To my limited knowledge, there are two features of a DSO that are not available on an analog scope:  Single shot trigger...

Beg to differ on this, not that it matters other than "the facts".  Even my Tek 465 has single shot trigger.  Usually used with a camera to get clean trace records.  So, there are quite a few high end CRO scopes that have this feature.  Jus' say'n.

Indeed. I remember taking my 475A into our new lab (whilst waiting for the bulk of our equipment and DSOs* to arrive from head office) to check out some 10s of ns logic signal relationships using single shot. It required the lights off, dark adapted eyes and the screen shroud but it was achievable. Getting the scale illumination just right was critical to extracting actual timings using persistence of vision. It's the reason that those old Tek scopes have what seems like a ridiculously high brightness adjustment range. Obviously a skill reserved for the past, but it was surprising what you could do with them at a pinch.

* This was in the days when the TDS540 was cutting edge.

[tautech]

To my limited knowledge, there are two features of a DSO that are not available on an analog scope:  Single shot trigger...

Beg to differ on this, not that it matters other than "the facts".  Even my Tek 465 has single shot trigger.  Usually used with a camera to get clean trace records.  So, there are quite a few high end CRO scopes that have this feature.  Jus' say'n.

And the trigger suite to make the best use of it with ?

[Gyro]

And the trigger suite to make the best use of it with ?

That seems like a rather fatuous comment.

Tek analogues were renowned for their triggering sensitivity compared to HP back in the day. Of course it was edge only but you had Polarity, AC, DC, HF reject, LF reject etc.

[Xena E]

To my limited knowledge, there are two features of a DSO that are not available on an analog scope:  Single shot trigger...

Beg to differ on this, not that it matters other than "the facts".  Even my Tek 465 has single shot trigger.  Usually used with a camera to get clean trace records.  So, there are quite a few high end CRO scopes that have this feature.  Jus' say'n.

Indeed. I remember taking my 475A into our new lab (whilst waiting for the bulk of our equipment and DSOs* to arrive from head office) to check out some 10s of ns logic signal relationships using single shot. It required the lights off, dark adapted eyes and the screen shroud but it was achievable. Getting the scale illumination just right was critical to extracting actual timings using persistence of vision. It's the reason that those old Tek scopes have what seems like a ridiculously high brightness adjustment range. Obviously a skill reserved for the past, but it was surprising what you could do with them at a pinch.

* This was in the days when the TDS540 was cutting edge.

A W. Heath Robinson technique that can be used, if it's required to snapshot a trigger event on a CRO is video it with an handy mobile phone, then pause and screenshot an individual frame.

Works in some instances anyway 

And the trigger suite to make the best use of it with ?

That seems like a fatuous comment.

Tek analogues were renowned for their triggering sensitivity compared to HP back in the day. Of course it was edge only but you had Polarity, AC, DC, HF reject, LF reject etc.

Has anyone yet ever managed to trigger a vintage HP scope, (joke BTW before the fan boys jump all over the comment), but they were famous for the wrong reasons.

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