Author Topic: New "lab" shopping list  (Read 17379 times)

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Offline Mosaic

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2014, 10:29:09 pm »
The thing about open source stuff like the Arduino and Raspberry is that they isolate you from  what you ultimately need. A real understanding of how and why electronics works.
They do shorten the learning curve a lot to make something work. This avoids early frustration for young players. But their convenience is a bit of a trap as well, you are insulated from the real workings of the devices.

Open source DIY folks never really get to design their own hardware, it's always OTC stuff used in different combos. For me that's missing out on 75% of DIY electronics.

At the moment I have just designed a built a multi MCU development board for PIC or Atmel or TTL/CMOS & even opamps. It's also a breakout for up to 40 PIN ICs. I could have 'bought'  a board from mikroelectronika or elsewhere. But I wanted something that suited my needs and you can't really get that unless you design to meet your needs. DIY then includes creating your own toolset.

I'll be offering this design in this forum soon for those who want something different and like the idea of building it!

On the issue of what u need in a 'lab'. :-DMM
1) Scope (digital & analog)
2) Logic analyzer
3) Solder & Desolder - buy hakko
4) A PC PSU with an LM317 or LM350 front end for  project power - 3.3V,45V, 12V or anything in between with lots of Amps and short circuit protection.
5) a Good DMM
6) A noncontact temp sensor (infra red 'red dot' units)
7) PCB manufacturing kit.
8.) a PC with internet & a laser printer (toner xfer capable)
9) Laser etcher/cutter (if u got the $$$)
10) 3D Printer (if u got the $$$)
11) Parts storage cabinets & breadboards.
12) Drill press & carbide bits & a mini vice.
13) Safety goggles & goggles with magnifiers.
14) Birdbeak, flush cutter, quality tweezer, helping hand, dental picks, micro files,  desolder wick, antistatic mat & strap, wire stripper, hookup wire - (Cat5 stranded & solid).
14a) Assorted screwdrivers and 'security' bit sets for scrapping equipment for parts.
15) isolation transformer & differential probes ($$$) (for the scope)
16) variac for testing power supply reliability in non standard conditions.
17) Cold spray for intermittents.
18) LCR meter with ESR capability.
19) Function generator (Arbitrary if u have $$$)
20) Lots of workspace .


just my 2 cents.
 ;D
 

Offline zapta

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2014, 10:29:58 pm »
I don't want to make any presumptions, but some people get gung-ho about their hobbies then abandon them quickly after great expense.

It's called wash out, a common symptom with new hobbies and resolutions.
 

Offline jimjamTopic starter

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2014, 03:09:49 am »
Can I ask, have you any experience/education in physics/electronics ?

A lot of test and service gear will do nothing without the pilot.
Or worse! :(
imvho.
I used to tinker with electronics when I was in high schol. I studied EE for my undergrad, and I used to ace the digital design, micro processor and circuit analysis classes. I've designed circuits with 808x, TTL gates and 555 ICs, made PCBs etc. That was a long time ago though, and I'd like to rekindle the passion again.

I recognise that Arduino isolates you from having to know the actual working of stuff, but at the same time it's also a huge time saver not to mention a good reference material to learn how to actually build one up. I'm planning on playing around with it for prototyping and then if the "stuff" is worth making for real, I'd like to build the whole thing from scratch which doesn't seem all that difficult nowadays with everything so integrated. The MCU/cpu's these days are so damn easy to deal with compared to how it was.

Anyhow, back to tools... I have ordered most of the basics but it's very spartan / bare. I am still looking for a powersupply and scope.

I'm also looking at getting some components and PCBs for prototyping to play with and I'm looking at ebay (they come from china) for this. Some 555's, 74xx, a few transistors, etc.

I ordered some "kits" from Elenco they sell various values for resistors, capacitors, etc.

@Mosaic - you have quite an extensive list.... it'll be a while before I'll get them all... e.g. How important is an LCR? I've never owned one. Usually just used a multimeter to do basic tests.

PCB manufacturing kit.... interesting... but I'm a few years away from that I think :)

Work space...... that's going to be my next problem. I can either convert one bedroom for this, or the garage. The bedroom might be a bit small but I think I'll start there.

This is all very exciting especially since there have been so many advancements in the past 20 years. The next problem is free time....
 

Offline cellularmitosis

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2014, 03:44:47 am »
If you are looking to cheap-out on a current-adjustable power supply, the CSI1802X has served me well.  $50 for 0-18V, 0-2A.  That's all you'll need for a while.

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/bench-power-supply-csi1802x.html
http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/power-supplies/bench-power-supplies/adjustable-dc-regulated-power-supply-csi-1802x

I would, however, recommend replacing the pots with 10-turn pots:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/picked-up-a-csi1802x-bench-supply-($50-0-18v-0-2a)/

The nice thing about it is that the schematic is available, and is simple enough that it is hackable.  In fact, I've got plans for making a few daughter-board kits for it.

When you need higher voltage / amperage, or a second supply for multiple rails, time to build your own!
LTZs: KX FX MX CX PX Frank A9 QX
 

Offline jimjamTopic starter

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2014, 04:04:05 am »
If you are looking to cheap-out on a current-adjustable power supply, the CSI1802X has served me well.  $50 for 0-18V, 0-2A.  That's all you'll need for a while.

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/bench-power-supply-csi1802x.html
http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/power-supplies/bench-power-supplies/adjustable-dc-regulated-power-supply-csi-1802x

I would, however, recommend replacing the pots with 10-turn pots:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/picked-up-a-csi1802x-bench-supply-($50-0-18v-0-2a)/

The nice thing about it is that the schematic is available, and is simple enough that it is hackable.  In fact, I've got plans for making a few daughter-board kits for it.

When you need higher voltage / amperage, or a second supply for multiple rails, time to build your own!
This would be good enough for me for now... but.... can't find it in Australia :(

The cheapest one I can find so far is this:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP3086

But for $150, I'd rather fork out a bit more and get a rigol for $500
https://secure1.bluecentral.com/emona/shop/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2857
I'm still waiting to see if I can find something cheaper.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 04:06:25 am by jimjam »
 

Offline makerimages

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2014, 05:18:31 pm »
First thing on your list should be an oscilloscope.
The JBC is overkill for first hobby use, it can cost more than a cheap scope.
A basic FX-888D will suit fine.

You going to review the digital anytime? (Sorry if I've missed it)
 

Offline Thilo78

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2014, 07:30:52 pm »
If you are looking to cheap-out on a current-adjustable power supply, the CSI1802X has served me well.  $50 for 0-18V, 0-2A.  That's all you'll need for a while.


Do you (or anyone else) know if these are available in/to Germany?
I have been looking for a while but can't find any in the range with similar specs...  :-//

Currently I use the PSU we built during education, featuring 15V/1.5 A, but am looking for a second one.

The CSI1802X sounds good, especially with the pot mod.
Specs would be great, given the mA display.

Any idea?
German Amazon and eBay show either crappy units or something beyond $1000  :o

edit: given the price ranges I found on Amazon etc., the Rigol would be the one eventually.
It's about the same price as used 2-channel units on ebay.de
 

Offline jimjamTopic starter

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2014, 12:35:52 pm »
There is a big hole in sub $800 power supply market that can at least rival Rogol's features minus the bugs. I am going to just wait - hopefully Rigol will either fix their stuff, or release a new model. I am afraid I might have to wait for years though. In the mean time maybe I will have to just build my own basic power supply. I'm not going to donate to Rigol's charity fund if they aren't going to fix their issues.
 

Offline Doug_in_Minnesota

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2014, 06:10:46 am »
jimjam,

It "appears" that money is not a serious issue for you. Sounds like you can afford to buy pretty much whatever you want. If true, then that's fine.

BUT, I want to make a different case;

I think mosaic's list of things you need is WAY too long. If you can easily afford it, then fine, but like you and others have said, if your new hobby turns out not to hold as much promise as you are expecting, you could end up with a bedroom full of $3000 of equipment that you bought new, that you could barely sell for half as much.

Personally, I benefited a lot by having quite limited equipment in the beginning. Actually, I still DO have pretty limited equipment. It makes you resourceful, and it makes you learn how to actually make a piece of equipment work for you, and to THINK about what the equipment is doing, and how to use it.

When I watch Dave's video's and I see 3 channel Rigol Power Supplies that show the exact voltage to four digits and the current draw down to milliamps, and even power in watts, I feel like it is almost cheating. Yeah, you'll have beautiful equipment that can do everything but walk the dog, but you'll be missing out on some of the "basic" type things that are good for learning when you have to "make do" with more limited stuff.

With that said, here is my own personal set of recommendations for a fairly comprehensive but still "basic" bench. Of course, your preferences will vary. I really emphasize though, don't overspend in the begining. Get "reasonable" quality gear, don't buy crap. But at the same time, you don't need Tektronix scopes or Agilent frequency generators. Start slow, buy as you need, and just buy as much power as you need, plus maybe 20%.  Learn how to exhaust the capabilities of your equipment, then trade up. And wahtever you do, TAKE GOOD CARE of what you own. Treat it all like precious materials. Don't loose attachments, cords, or manauls. When you go to trade something in, or to sell something privately, you want it to look brand new, no scratches, no dents, nothing missing. Keep everything in perfect working order, and in perfect appearance, then you'll always be able to sell it for the best price, or get the best trade in. If you loose the manuals for something, or it has scratches all over the face plate, you've cut at least a third or more off it's value.

For some items, it is important to buy "really, really good stuff-extremely high quality". For other items, just high quality is good enough, doesn't have to be the best in the world.



IN ORDER, here is what I would add, keeping in mind what you already have:

oscilloscope. you already have a Fluke 87 DMM, which is great. That is the single most needed piece of gear to have. When you are comfortable with the cost, add another DMM, doesn't need to be at the same $400 (US) level of the Fluke, but another one or two DMM's around the $100 mark each would be very helpful (see Dave's video's).

But, regarding the scope. I think that in the $330-$400 range, the Rigol 1052 and the 1102 are both great, if you want a digital scope. I would be very careful though about spending $800-$1000 on a digital scope, brand new, to start out. Might be way more than you need. If you've got money nto burn, then fine, but I would start at the $400 point, unless you geneuinely needed the better stuff.

I would actually, myself, start with a USED analog scope (see Dave's video about getting an analog scope).  I would buy a good quality (not primo) USED analog scope, in the $300-$500 range, tops. Maybe the Tek 2000 series.  Maybe 100 to 250 Mhz. I would ONLY buy a used scope that you can TEST where and when you buy it, which eliminates ebay, etc. That's just my preference. Use whatever Autralia has that is similar to craigslist, or find some shops that sell used electronics test equipment. Test it, get two very good quality probes with a variety of tips.

If you buy a digital scope, just choose whatever Rigol price point you are comfortable with. Just don't over spend. You can always upgrade later, and if you buy high quality gear to start with, you can sell it. But you can't sell low grade equipment, if you don't like it, just doesn't hold it's value.
Of course, anything from Tek, HP-Agilent, Fluke, holds it's value fairly well. Not NEW value, but better than other brands.

POWER SUPPLY(s)
After a  scope, this is the very next thing you need. Yes, you could try to "make" a power supply or two, and re-used PC power supplies are OK to do that. But I would recommend a plain jane NEW 2 channel (or three, with a fixed  5 volt channel) supply. You want something with good regulation and accuracy, and very good output protection. . Make sure you have SEVERAL usable digits of resolution showing the output. A multiturn pot would be great, if you can get it.  I bought my VIZ power supply in the mid-80's, and I made a poor choice. The display only shows tenths of a volt, and it is not very accurate either. Also, although it is 0 to 25 volts, those are in steps of 5 volts, which is a mechanical switch, so you have to switch from the 0-5 volt range, 5 to 10, etc.  You probably can't even buy something so crappy anymore. But you'll need at least 2 channels of zero to 25 volts or more, at a minimum of 2 amps, 3 amps is much better, and more than 3 amps is great, if you can get it. It is very important to buy a high quality power supply, don't skimp here. You'll never be sorry to have bought very high quality when it comes to power supplies. Eventually you'll want more than one power supply.

LCR meter. No, you don't need this to start. You can get it later, when you have a better understanding of what you'll use it for. You'll be able to make a more informed decision. And depending what you work on, you might want a good ESR meter later, but you don't need that to start, either.

Frequency Generator/Function Generator
Again, if you can find a very high quality used one, that would be good enough, as long as it is in perfect condition. Otherwise, if you buy new, you'll have many choices, and they aren't very expensive. Get one with a variety of Sweep and modulation settings, etc.  Mhz is not terribly important in my opinion. Anything from 2 Mhz to 10 Mhz is enough to start. Quality and accuracy are most important. You do NOT need an arbitrary waveform generator (AWG). Quality generators start in the $200 to $300 range and go up.

Counter
You need this. If you get a high quality scope or function generator that has a good counter built in, then fine. Otherwise buy a good quality new counter, they don't cost too much.

Variac and isolation transformer
You need this. You can buy them as separate tiems, or as one unit. This is a pretty basic item, just be sure you buy very high quality. Don't buy used, buy new. Strongly recommend analog meters for both current and voltage (you need meters for both, at the same time). This is one of those things where you can almost judge the quality by how much it weighs. Heavier=better. I have an older  VIZ (not top quality, but plenty good enough for me) combination variac and iso-tap, that I can barely lift.

I can't think of any other important pieces of test gear for now, you'll know as you grow into the needs for them.

Hand tools
WIHA is the only way to go for small screwdrivers and nutdrivers, torx, similar tools, in my opinion.

Xcelite is crap.

Buy GOOD QUALITY cutters, long nose, wire strippers, etc
You'll find the top quality hand tools in all the catalogs. You'll know it's the good stuff when they cost more than $30-$50 for cutters and long nose pliers. Don't buy crap hand tools, ever. And treat them like gold. Don't be cutting paper clips with your $45 Lindstrom cutters.

Sounds like you already bought the solder stuff, but I wouldn't overdo it unless you've got oodles of money.

Pomona and Probemaster both sell excellent kits of multimeter probes with attachments. Get the nicest most extensive sets of probes and attachments you can afford. But ONLY top quality silicone probes (meaning the leads), no plastic insulated ones. You will need LOTS AND LOTS of jumper leads, with varieties of tips; banana ends, various clip style ends, etc.  Get lots, and buy good quality.

Scope Probes. Very important. Buy very good quality, of whatever frequency range you need, but no more.

You don't need to make your own pcb's, for now. Just buy lots of breadboards, and various types of "VaroBoards", or whatever perfboards are called down under.

Logic Analyzer
No, you don't need that.

Temp sensor?
No, you don't need that now

breadboard wires
Like you said you are planning, you can buy rolls of different colors, or buy a couple of the premade kits. I have a kit from 3M, it is exquisite.

Components
Yes, lay in a very large selection of components, from all the passives, through transistors, op-amps, etc.
Places like Jameco and DigiKey sell kits to (assortments). Getting several of these with lots of values, is one of the best ways to start (for passives I mean-resistors, inductors, capacitors). Not sure if they have transistor assortments, but with transistors and op-amps you want a very wide range. 3 each of 40 types is better than 10 each of 5 types.  Components are always very easy to add to later

Other silicon
You'll need lots of voltage regulators, zener diodes, and some FET power transistors. Maybe a bunch of digital chips if that floats your boat. Also optocouplers, photo diodes and photo transistors, etc.

Other stuff
Don't be concerned about having every single brand new perfect tool you can think of before you sit down to start your firszt projects. If you've got money, you can get anything else you need via FedEx in a few days, from many suppliers. Just stay with quality,  tazke care of your stuff, and grow your collection as needed.

That's my opinion. Have fun, and emphasize safety. It's amazing how many ways there are to hurt yourself in a lab, and I've done most of 'em.








 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2014, 06:39:03 am »
It all depends what you are after.

On the scope the ds2072a offers way too many extra features than the ds1052 worth the price difference by a long shot. Both can be "upgraded" the first one to 300MHz (3.33ns) the 2nd one to 100MHz (10ns)

For example if you are going to do high resolution video driven by an FPGA, 100MHz will fall short.

Edit an analog scope in the fast digital world is not worth it either, you need the memory depth and buying cheaper equipment is actually throwing money if you end up needing something better.
I also rather have a function generator than a counter but that's me.

As for the Variac, that is expensive so you might need it for your goals, but for mine a logic analyzer will be higher in my priority list.

The tools and equipment depend on what you want to achieve.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 06:44:33 am by miguelvp »
 

Offline larsdenmark

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2014, 10:32:52 am »
If you are looking to cheap-out on a current-adjustable power supply, the CSI1802X has served me well.  $50 for 0-18V, 0-2A.  That's all you'll need for a while.


Do you (or anyone else) know if these are available in/to Germany?
I have been looking for a while but can't find any in the range with similar specs...  :-//

Currently I use the PSU we built during education, featuring 15V/1.5 A, but am looking for a second one.

Reichelt.de has power supplies starting from 46€ (=62 $). It is 15V, 2A.

 

Offline Thilo78

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2014, 10:41:04 am »
Reichelt.de has power supplies starting from 46€ (=62 $). It is 15V, 2A.

In the meantime I had the chance to check the Conrad shop in Vienna.
Conrad shops in Germany have only few items in their showrooms, so nothing to look at or try out. But Conrad in Vienna is quite cool.

Had the chance to look at a few of the PSUs and settled with BASEtech BT-305.
It more than serves my purpose, and with a little tweaking to the current pot, it'll be fine.  :-/O

The Voltcraft PSUs have a very nice build quality, but I didn't want to spend the money at the moment.
 

Offline What_NZ

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2014, 06:20:34 am »
Just my 10 cents worth (we don't have a smaller coin in NZ)

From what you said in your #1 & #29 posts, I don't think you need to buy much more than what you already have.
Best way to rekindle your interest in Electronics, is to........ START! you just need a few things more added to your list -

- An Elenco breadboard + breadboard jumper wires
- Solder wick, flux pen, a roll of solder
- A wire stripper - Maybe, you can always learn how to use your side cutters
- A Raspberry Pi kit
- An Arduino kit
- Some extra solid core wires in a roll that I can cut, mainly for breadboard / other stuff
- some stranded too
- tweezers
- Long nose pliers
- Some sort of protective desk mat
- Side cutters
- Jewellers magnifying glass
- Bright lamp

If money is not an issue then by all means buy what you want but your first post intimated this could just be a temporary hobby, so.......

You don't need a fancy Soldering Iron, Oscilloscope or Logic analyser. Well at least wait to see what you need.
I wouldn't suggest spending a lot of money on tools either, just some reasonable quality ones from Jaycar will do you just fine until you know you are serious about Electronics again. www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=TD2107 this is a great little set as a starter and on special was only $19.95, the cutters are ok for soft component legs.
Build your own DC Power supply, it would be a great starter project. 1-20 volts DC at 3 Amps should be fine to start with. Or just buy a couple of good quality Plug Packs 5VDC @ 2Amps, 9VDC @ 2Amps should be perfect for your Raspberry Pi and Arduino projects. I picked up a great little screwdriver set from KMart for $4, treated with respect they could last for a lifetime (maybe? - lol)
I always fall back on the old saying "What do I need and what do I want, are two different questions" i.e. you don't need much to rekindle your interest in electronics.
the most important thing is to enjoy yourself, electronics is a great hobby.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 08:27:48 am by What_NZ »
 

Offline chrissmeuk

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2014, 09:57:09 am »
Buying tools to populate a lab won't rekindle an interest - it will result in slavery to the TODO list of things to get before you can get started.

If I was to start again, I'd grab in order.

1. A cheap DMM or second hand Fluke 77.
2. Some hand tools (cheap needle nose pliers, side cutters and some small screwdrivers). I've come to the conclusion that cheap tools and expensive tools break at the same rate. The only real concern is that if you break what you're working on so small Torx drivers etc should be quality but everything else is a bit meh.
3. Cheap 18-25W (Antex) soldering iron + stand
4. Old Tek 2000 series scope (at least 100MHz) and some probes.
5. Old TTi or HP power supply
6. This kit: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electronic-Component-Starter-Kit-XXL-more-than-2500-pieces-k067-/351028527732?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item51baee4274
7. Some Atmel parts and XTALs etc.
8. USB ICSP cable for (7).
9. A reasonably holistic book. I'd recommend: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0071771336
10. Some pad/strip boards/PCB blanks
11. Cheap breadboard with 4mm posts (all breadboards have problems after certain frequencies so revert to item 10 then).
12. Some test cables (4mm banana jobs + BNCs + adapters).
13. A big lamp and visor magnifier (if your eyesight is as bad as mine)
14. Hookup wire, PCB headers, terminal posts and heatshrink (this stuff is really useful).

There's a lot you can do with that for probably less than £300 in total.

I'd add a function generator and some more components after that as they appear on ebay.

Also, remember that what you haven't got teaches you how to make the most of what you have got. I've seen so many people in a panic because they don't have a certain resistor value or transistor for example and don't know how to substitute or work around a problem.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 09:58:40 am by chrissmeuk »
 

Offline What_NZ

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2014, 10:22:39 am »
Very sensible suggestions.

I still use my Fluke77 and the Power Supply I built from either an Electronics Australia or ETI kit in the 70's. Learnt a lot from building that PSU. I don't know what the digit resolution of the display is on the PSU as it depends on the angle you look at the needle!  :-DD
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 10:32:09 am by What_NZ »
 

Offline chrissmeuk

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2014, 01:14:18 pm »
Very sensible suggestions.

I still use my Fluke77 and the Power Supply I built from either an Electronics Australia or ETI kit in the 70's. Learnt a lot from building that PSU. I don't know what the digit resolution of the display is on the PSU as it depends on the angle you look at the needle!  :-DD

My old HP6236B PSU is like that. The needle moves on its own when there is no load too even though the voltage output is stable according to external measurement. Think it has had it :)
 

Offline jimjamTopic starter

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2014, 02:57:03 pm »
Thanks for all the input and suggestions. So far I have gathered these items:

- JBC compact Soldering station, 60/40 solder roll, goot solder sucker, solder wick etc. I love the JBC! Whether I am sticking with electronics or not, I know this will always be useful for the rest of my life!
- Anti static mat + various anti static stuff
- Hakko side cuter ($5), Xcelite pliers smooth and jagged (about $5 each), Tweezers
- hakko fume extractor
- Books (TAOE, Practical Electronics for inventors, a digital design textbook, circuit designer's companion, etc. I have also ordered some calculus books - although probably not necessary, but that's another hobby anyhow)
- An Elenco breadboard (I don't like it), wires, etc.
- Arduino uno boards + some "shields"
- A collection of LEDs, trimpots, resistors, capacitors and some transistors. I think I need to get more variety of transistors, mosfets
- 555s, 741, and shift register TTL ICs.

Still to get:
- More transistors, mosfets, other components
- I am going to get a Siglent power supply SDS3303D instead of a Rigol DP832.
- For a scope, I am tempted to get an Agilent MSOX3014A or MSOX3024A but not too sure about this yet. I'm weighing it against Siglent's SDS2000 series
- Atmel stuff, ICSP cable (or I'll use an arduino to do it), xtals, etc.
- a second multimeter
- Some ideas of what to create! - Might design some sort of christmas light display for my neighbour

I think that's probably it for now.

Questions:
Variac - Why would I need one?

« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 03:11:33 pm by jimjam »
 

Offline hammy

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2014, 06:36:43 pm »
Questions:
Variac - Why would I need one?

Wrong question.  ;) You want to ask "Why would I need an isolation transformer?"
The answer is: Always when you want to repair something with mains power. It reduces the danger. A isolation transformer is highly recommended!
But: If you only want to work with 12 volts, arduinos, pic controller and such stuff then you don't need this piece of equipment.

Cheers
hammy

PS: no signal generator on your list?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 06:43:10 pm by hammy »
 

Offline jimjamTopic starter

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2014, 07:29:35 pm »
Signal generator - I am thinking that the scope that I'll get will have this function - either Agilent, Siglent or Rigol. It is something that I don't yet really know why I need it for.
 

Offline chrissmeuk

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2014, 08:08:22 pm »
Signal generator - I am thinking that the scope that I'll get will have this function - either Agilent, Siglent or Rigol. It is something that I don't yet really know why I need it for.

If you don't know why you need it, don't buy it :)

Signal/function generator uses:

1. Clocking logic circuits (lame - just use an Xtal).
2. Testing filter response (if it has a sweep input, add a ramp generator (another function generator!) and a scope and you can do bode plots on a scope which is fun)
3. Testing amplification and attenuation (is it clipping the waves, did you bias your transistor properly?)
4. Signal tracing (where did that monkey go on the board?)
5. Testing op-amp slew (this is really important - a lot of cheap-ass devices are out of spec when they ship)
6. Calculating reactance and phase shift and therefore value of unknown caps and inductors (this is how some LCR meters work roughly)
7. Substituting an entire chunk of your system for an ideal source temporarily to exclude coupling and impedance issues.
8. Add a transimpedance amp and a scope and you can trace BJT curves.

And the most important:

9. lissajou figures by using scope X-Y inputs to show off funky patterns to people who have no idea what you are doing (actually you can use these to indicate phase shift which is cool but not half as interesting as doing 1950s sci fi effects).

Edit: I don't actually own one at the moment annoyingly so am making do with a Wein bridge oscillator on a breadboard and a couple of hacked up colpitts oscillators.

This is a sod as I'm trying to build myself a Mode 2 IFF transponder and interrogator (no particular reason).
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 08:15:33 pm by chrissmeuk »
 

Offline Wim_L

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2014, 08:48:39 pm »
Questions:
Variac - Why would I need one?

Wrong question.  ;) You want to ask "Why would I need an isolation transformer?"
The answer is: Always when you want to repair something with mains power. It reduces the danger. A isolation transformer is highly recommended!
But: If you only want to work with 12 volts, arduinos, pic controller and such stuff then you don't need this piece of equipment.

Cheers
hammy

PS: no signal generator on your list?


Be careful! A variac is not necessarily an isolated transformer. In fact, the usual type of variac is NOT isolated! Isolation transformers and variacs are two different things. Some devices are sold as isolated variacs, though. In that case, it's usually an isolation transformer and a variac combined in one box.
 

Offline hammy

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2014, 09:17:14 pm »
Questions:
Variac - Why would I need one?
Wrong question.  ;) You want to ask "Why would I need an isolation transformer?"
Be careful! A variac is not necessarily an isolated transformer. In fact, the usual type of variac is NOT isolated! Isolation transformers and variacs are two different things. Some devices are sold as isolated variacs, though. In that case, it's usually an isolation transformer and a variac combined in one box.

Right! Yes, sorry. My post was related to the original post:

Variac and isolation transformer
You need this. You can buy them as separate tiems, or as one unit.

There was the "variac" and the "isolation transformer" mentioned, but jimjam only asked about the variac ... and not the IsoTrans.
Sorry for this confusion.

I don't see a need for a variac, but I see a need for an isolation transformer *if* he wants to repair mains powered stuff.

Cheers
hammy
 

Tac Eht Xilef

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2014, 09:37:29 pm »
It is something that I don't yet really know why I need it for.

Handy rule of thumb: If it's not a safety item, and you don't really know why you need it, you don't need it yet ;)
 

Offline What_NZ

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2014, 10:47:29 pm »
Very sensible suggestions.

I still use my Fluke77 and the Power Supply I built from either an Electronics Australia or ETI kit in the 70's. Learnt a lot from building that PSU. I don't know what the digit resolution of the display is on the PSU as it depends on the angle you look at the needle!  :-DD

My old HP6236B PSU is like that. The needle moves on its own when there is no load too even though the voltage output is stable according to external measurement. Think it has had it :)

Yeah when I need an accurate voltage I just measure the output, it's not like you are needing to adjust the voltage all over the place when you are building a circuit and to get more precision ;) I did replace the Voltage adjust 1 turn pot with a 10 turn.
 

Offline What_NZ

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Re: New "lab" shopping list
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2014, 11:20:53 pm »
JimJam I know this is going to sound incredibly rude and even overtly presumptuous but I believe you have a Test Equipment/specification obsession.

I just read through 124 of your posts and unless I missed them, only one or two were about something you were actually doing with Electronics - a NE555 timer (I think one was). The vast majority were about Test Equipment specifications/ which one is best/ which one to buy etc etc.

Please don't take this the wrong way (I know someone will anyway) as you can post and do whatever you want to do and it's really none of my business.
I just think if you truly want to get envolved in electronics, then stop dreaming over Test Equipment and start playing around like you did with the NE555. That's how you will learn and ignite your passion.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 11:54:31 pm by What_NZ »
 


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