Multimeter mayhem

[hannobisschoff]

Yes, the question is simple, which option should a beginner wannabe E-Engineer like myself choose. A cheap and standard "China" multimeter with all the basic functions, or a pretty expensive (even second-hand) FLUKE or MAJOR-TECH etc. multimeter. I'll use it for pretty standard measuring, for example, how's the accuracy of a cheap multimeter. Remember, I'm still a newbie.

[Russel]

Dave has explained in many of his video blogs, safety with the multimeters is a very important factor to consider. You might, for the moment, simply want to measure AA battery voltage. But, what are you going to do if you need to measure the mains? Best to have a multimeter that can do both, even if you don't plan on measuring high voltage right now.

I recommend that you stay away from the cheap multimeters that don't have proper Cat ratings. You don't have to spend a fortune to get a safe multimeter, but you definitely shouldn't try to save money buying an unsafe one. Take advantage of the information that Dave has provided and watch all the multimeter video blogs, if you haven't already.

[Tony R]

I own a cheepo 80 dollar one that at one time linked to my computer but i since lost the software for it, not that the software was any good anyways, i now never use it the buttons don't react like they should when i press them. the beep is annoyingly faded and takes forever...

I also own a old Fluke 77 (first series) as well as a 87. I think i paid about 90 for the 77 after shipping and it still works like a charm keep in mind this meter was new 15+ years ago. i just got it a couple years ago.

with that said, I would encourage you to buy a fluke hands down. If you want to shell out the cash get a new one with a lifetime warranty (at least 10 years)

Safety is also a huge issue. buy one that wont blow up in your hand Cat III should do.

It also depends on what are of EE your interested in. If you want to go into power systems you need a durable multimeter that can handle the high voltage and such.

However, if you want to go into low voltage computer type engineering then your going to want one that can measure mV and uA.

Dave has some wonderful videos out for buying DMM including a 50 and 100 dollar shoot out. I would not buy any new for less that 100

As I said I have a Fluke 77 and would recommend one you can find them for 80 easily after shipping.

I honestly would recommend an 87V but for a beginner that becomes quite an expense.

Don't buy any of the cheep one dollar ones from china. Invest something into this. The accuracy of a cheepo has a lot to be desired.

So final answer, find a nice used name brand DMM, like Fluke. Fluke 77 i speak highly of (but i should note it does have an unfused 10 A input which is kinda a downer. You can also buy some older 87s for a reasonable price. and above all DONT THINK YOUR GETTING A DEAL WITH A 20 DOLLAR METER!

[bilko]

As a newbie it is even more important that you get a good recognised brand like Fluke. Some of the cheap meters from China will get you into trouble. The specs for the chinese meters are optimistic, and anyhow are only valid until you switch the meter on. 

[saturation]

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/digital-multimeters/electrical-power-testing/test-instruments/ecatalog/N-b98?op=search&sst=subset

Try an industrial supply house that only sells reputable brands.  They are listed above.  Choose from among the brands and models, then go to a discounter for a better price that meets your budget.

Part of the fun is in choosing.  If you're unsure what you need then post on the forum for critique.  Enjoy.

[EEVblog]

How long is a piece of string?
Some beginners have cash to burn and like buying top quality tools, others don't.
That said, there is no need to spend $500 for a multimeter, a $50 one with be just fine and buys you at least a bit of quality and safety, as per my $50/$100 shootout.
However, I would never recommend a $5 multimeter.

Dave.

[House91320]

I have the bk that won Dave's shoot of an I highly suggest it.

[Mechatrommer]

i cannot vote since my equation is not a function of DMM? = begineer or not. but my formula is... DMM? = got money or not. since as general rule of thumb...

1) how much you can afford?
2) buy the best tool... that you can afford.

since you dont indicate how much money you have... then i cannot vote.
if i got money, sure i'll get Fluke or even gossen instead of chinese.

[hannobisschoff]

Thanks for all the top quality info and opinions, first of all, I will hardly be measuring any mains. And secondly, I'm willing to spend 100 Austrailian dollars max. The thing is I'm not exactly going to buy a top of the range multimeter, but now I have to say my plans to buy an
Al-Cheapo meter are dissapearing. How can I detirmine if a 2nd hand multimeter is still in good order. What should I look for?

[Kiriakos-GR]

Before many months I did not had an clear answer ,
but now I do .

No matter what, the DMM of 2011 must be : True RMS capable.

Because the True RMS ones cost more , I would trust something of an famous brand.
And so the no-name Chinese, are completely out as choice.

Personally , only at the UNI-T products I have some faith , and i can suggest as economical but worthy solutions.    

Measuring mains:
The True RMS DMM,  has an more powerful Chip in it ,
and that translates that is faster too ,
this gain in speed , makes the DMM faster in all the other measurements too.

[alm]

Measuring mains:
The True RMS DMM,  has an more powerful Chip in it ,
and that translates that is faster too ,
this gain in speed , makes the DMM faster in all the other measurements too.

Some true RMS DMMs have an extremely low sampling rate, even in VDC, so it's not universally true, if at all.

[hannobisschoff]

Wow, just found Dave's 52 minute long video. Great help. By the way, how do you get time for work dave. Do you just stand in front of the camera and make things up as you go along, or do you plan the things you say. Cause I don't know how you do it...

[Kiriakos-GR]

Measuring mains:
The True RMS DMM,  has an more powerful Chip in it ,
and that translates that is faster too ,
this gain in speed , makes the DMM faster in all the other measurements too.

Some true RMS DMMs have an extremely low sampling rate, even in VDC, so it's not universally true, if at all.

The best would be to name them ...

[hannobisschoff]

Hi All, Since I asked this question, I might as well tell you all. I've just gotten me a FLUKE 179 True RMS general purpose meter, and I have to say I was stupid to buy a cheapy fron China in the first place, and tO anyone who's struggling with thie same question: JUST BUY SOMETHING DECENT FROM THE START.

[Kiriakos-GR]

The idea that rules in this forum , and it is logical too,
are to own more than just one DMM .

In this case , I prefer an medium priced UNI-T ( 100$ ) ,
and something more top class , useful as reference too.

You did well getting this Fluke , its is an balanced ( price / quality ) choice.

[hannobisschoff]

Now I know there have been a great many questions asked about cheap multimeters, but no what about cheap solder. Many of you may not be working with solder much, but what's the difference between cheap and expensive solder?

[Mechatrommer]

by coincident, within this few days, there's a solder station/ hot air gun boom in threads. you may check them as well. and also find the older thread, there used to be quite a number of them discussed.

[hannobisschoff]

Hey Kiriakos, wasn't it your FLUKE that got "killed" by your cellphone? Did FLUKE fix it?

[Kiriakos-GR]

Hey Kiriakos, wasn't it your FLUKE that got "killed" by your cellphone? Did FLUKE fix it?

Yep , actually it got replaced with one of my choice, because there was not an quick fix about the 87.
And also got 8 Fluke fuses for free .

I got truly impressed , and I will always favor them, for their immediate response.  

[Reuben]

I had a fluke 12 for 15 years. I bought it for 100 in 1993 while attending ITT tech. I loved that meter.  It did not have current ability, but made up for that by being very small. What it did have is min max, low impedance Z, capacitance, and a special visual latching function for testing cables for intermittent shorts and opens. No backlight, but the battery lasted 3 years with constant use.  The low z has many uses.  It speeds up capacitor discharge. It loads down  batteries or power supplies for test under load.  If a voltage is detected in ohms these meters switch to low z voltage.   I have 3 meters now that are perfect for industrial settings.  I have a fluke 16, a fluke 17B with volt detect six inches away! And an ideal clamp meter with backlight bargraph min max 2 displays,both backlit  one under a boot in the end peak hold and capacitance.  My fluke 16 has temperature and microamps, as well as still that intermittent latching function, where my fluke 17 has backlight and frequency and capacitace Low z also.  My ideal was about 150 my fluke 16 130 my fluke 17b 175.  I also have an ideal "wiggy" which has a vibrating solenoid to load down the supply.  You can feel a frequeny drive change speed of vibration. I would rather have these than one really expensive one for my purposes. For some reason fluke did not include the visual latching feature in the more expensive lines.  Where it is noisy the visual is helpful.

[saturation]

Great to hear.  What eventually killed your Fluke 12?  Low Z I find is increasingly helpful, When I need it I use a 1k resistor parallel to the load but it can be a pain if you do it a lot.

The 17b is a China only Fluke, I recall.  How long have you had it and how is it holding up in your use?

I had a fluke 12 for 15 years. I bought it for 100 in 1993 while attending ITT tech. I loved that meter.  It did not have current ability, but made up for that by being very small. What it did have is min max, low impedance Z, capacitance, and a special visual latching function for testing cables for intermittent shorts and opens. No backlight, but the battery lasted 3 years with constant use.  The low z has many uses.  It speeds up capacitor discharge. It loads down  batteries or power supplies for test under load.  If a voltage is detected in ohms these meters switch to low z voltage.   I have 3 meters now that are perfect for industrial settings.  I have a fluke 16, a fluke 17B with volt detect six inches away! And an ideal clamp meter with backlight bargraph min max 2 displays,both backlit  one under a boot in the end peak hold and capacitance.  My fluke 16 has temperature and microamps, as well as still that intermittent latching function, where my fluke 17 has backlight and frequency and capacitace Low z also.  My ideal was about 150 my fluke 16 130 my fluke 17b 175.  I also have an ideal "wiggy" which has a vibrating solenoid to load down the supply.  You can feel a frequeny drive change speed of vibration. I would rather have these than one really expensive one for my purposes. For some reason fluke did not include the visual latching feature in the more expensive lines.  Where it is noisy the visual is helpful.

[thakidd]

Hey eevblog!

Wanted to add my two cents on this one. If you find it fun, take it as slowly as your budget permits, but never give up on something you find entertaining.

I started a break fix computer company back in 2000 and, over time, moved into network infrastructure design and eventually .Net C# app design. What I do for a living uses electronics but really has nothing to do with electronics design and repair. It has been a hobby of mine though since I was a little kid when my dad would bring all kinds of electronics that failed tests at his job including the kewl capacitor I use to charge to shock my little sister (in hind site, that may be what is wrong with her today, hehe).

I had been running with an Ideal 61-361 DMM I bought back in 2004. I think I bought it for $100 @ Home Depot in the states. I learned a lot with the meter and, at one point, went through a lot of freaking fuses. Mainly bought and used it to do some additional work while running Cat5e or building phone switch boxes. Didn't really get back into electronics until a year or two ago (from when i was a kid).

When I did get back into it, I started by pulling out the old Radio Shack electronics kit, then moved to the Basic Stamp2, and then started playing with Arduino. Thanks to Dave, I have jumped into the Renesas products and have really loved them so far.

Fast forward to today: I realized over the past few months that I really needed a second DMM with the hobby projects I am working on. I guess as you get older, you find a determination to follow something through and you also learn that buying cheap Chinese crap will cost you in the end. I just picked up a brand new Fluke 87-v due to that methodology. Fluke products are great and have had plenty of fun using them in the networking side of stuff. I do plan to keep it away from my cell phone for sure. Since it will sit on my hobby bench though, I am not too worried.

BTW a little tip. I picked up the DMM off of CraigsList brand new for $125. Apparently the guy I bought it from receives 6 or so free DMMs a year. Major steel (although I wish I had been reading the forum when Granger was selling that Agilent DMM for cheap)!

Point is, if you are serious about any hobby, do spend good money on the right tools. You will thank yourself later.

If you don't have the time and/or the money, build up your lab and parts slowly. Salvage anything and everything you can get your hands on.

If you want to test the waters though, get a $30-50 or so meter, an arduino/pic/basicstamp starter board, a few components and a breadboard and go to town. You shouldn't spend more than $100-150 to test the waters.

Realize you will fail. Take a note that you will have to pick your head up off of the floor. And do try-try again.

Electronics knowledge is a very useful thing considering we live in such a disposal society these days. Even if it is just for fun.

Good luck and go build something!

[Kiriakos-GR]

I learned a lot with the meter and, at one point, went through a lot of freaking fuses.

This is the point , and very few can understand this concept .

The modern high quality DMM it is ahead of your actual needs.
By reading the book of it, of how to use it ,  you learn of what it can do,
you learn about new technological creations ... Like new electrical motors with different operation principals.

The new DMM Its like an encyclopedia , so to read it and become informed . ( it is like an mini seminar for new things.)

Example :
Some one invented the  T-type screw ,  the industry started to build T-type screwdrivers ....
I get the screwdriver in a tools set,  with many other screwdrivers  that I do visually recognize and use ..
And so by just looking the T-type screwdriver , I get the idea , that somewhere out there, there is also an T-type screw.

I have not see any T-type screw yet !!  But I am prepared for it .. 

End of the example .. 



 

 

[Mechatrommer]

I use to charge to shock my little sister (in hind site, that may be what is wrong with her today, hehe).

bad brother! last time i got shocked myself i never played with big caps anymore until i understand it properly.