Need some help with coils in a centrifugal fan speed controller

[Mientje]

I have a speed controller for a 1 phase AC motor (centrifugal fan).
I know the type I have works  on the motors I have, but I would like to have several more and I can't find the existing one I have.
I made the schematic based on the one I have.
It's base around a triac BTA26-600B.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IerlQw6sJtgD3kznou2jTKDyvAf1HFuN/view?usp=sharing

My biggest hurdle are the two coils that are being used.
1. The blue one, connected to mains, has two seperate windings,each 13 turns.
Outer diameter= 25.4mm
Inner diameter= 14.5 mm
wire diameter = 0.9mm
core section = 5.3mm width x 10.9 mm height

2.  The second coil is the yellow one, this one consists only of one winding around the core
Outer Diameter= 27mm
Inner Diameter= +- 15mm
number of turns = +-46
wire diameter = 1.2mm
core section = +-6mm widt x x11.3 mm height


Would someone be so kind enough two explain what the purpose is of both coils, and what their inductance/value is?
The controller is rated at 230 Volts / 10 Amps

[Jwillis]

Being a novice a TRIAC myself I believe both coils are for filtering . The blue one is a common mode choke to filter noise , coming from the TRIAC circuit , from entering the supply lines . The second is a  Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) coil to reduce radio noise .

Maybe someone here can explain this better .

[Ian.M]

The yellow core inductor may well be to prevent commutation failure.  See the section "(c) Exceeding the max rate of change of
commutating current dI_COM/dt" on page 12 of the collected Philips technical notes for Thyristors and Triacs, 1997: https://rmorais.utad.pt/RMPDFFiles/PDFDatasheets/SC03.pdf

Its inductance can be measured with a LCR meter, and its DC resistance with a four wire ohmmeter.   Determining its saturation current is a bit trickier . . .

[Jwillis]

The yellow core inductor may well be to prevent commutation failure.  See the section "(c) Exceeding the max rate of change of
commutating current dI_COM/dt" on page 12 of the collected Philips technical notes for Thyristors and Triacs, 1997: https://rmorais.utad.pt/RMPDFFiles/PDFDatasheets/SC03.pdf

Its inductance can be measured with a LCR meter, and its DC resistance with a four wire ohmmeter.   Determining its saturation current is a bit trickier . . .

Thanks Ian . I learned something new . You're of course refering to rule #5  on page 13 ?

[Ian.M]

Thanks Ian . I learned something new . You're of course referring to rule #5  on page 13 ?

Yep.

[Mientje]

There is an LCR meter on its way, so I will be able to measure the inductance.  Is it right if I say that both cores (because they are colored) are powder iron cores?

[Ian.M]

Unfortunately toroidal core color codes are not standardized, so you'd need to know the core manufacturer to be certain what the core material is.  As the other toroid is a common mode choke, there's an appprox 80% probability that one is a MnZn Ferrite core.

[Mientje]

Unfortunately toroidal core color codes are not standardized, so you'd need to know the core manufacturer to be certain what the core material is.  As the other toroid is a common mode choke, there's an appprox 80% probability that one is a MnZn Ferrite core.

1. So i desoldered the yellow/white coil.  That's when I saw it was yellow/white and not just yellow.
I used the online calculator on coil32.net:
https://coil32.net/online-calculators/ferrite-torroid-calculator.html
This is a ferrite torroid calculator, but since I can put in the 'relative magnetic permeability', I guess I can also use it for the powdered iron versons.
The measurement I got was 206 uH (micro Henry). When I put all the info in the calculator I got N=45.471 which is pretty close to the 46 turns I counted.  So I guess this is a match.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sstmN49_HmmVA_ZHYF9sKDb2TeS41o-8/view?usp=sharing


2. For the choke coil (entrance main voltage) I measured an inductance of 1,615 mH.
The highest permeability I could find was Amidon Material 75 (permeability 5000).
That would give me the desired inductance with 16 turns (I counted 14).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12Pl-62Qw8fFAJW0ZM8b_Oyv5PyCue-59/view?usp=sharing

Am I on the right track here?

[Ian.M]

At the moment you are just guessing.  You'd need to set up a jig to measure saturation current before you could specify an equivalent inductor with a reasonable expectation it would perform the same in-circuit.