Is Owon SDS7102 still amongst the contenders of latest technology budget scopes

[LPS]

I have decided to buy the Owon SDS7102V which meets my budget of well under US$500 and is to be used for hobby projects.  I have searched this Forum and I see message entries for the Owon SDS7102 from the year 2011.

Usually 5 years is enough for at least one generation of improved technology to be developed resulting in new and improved products.  Searching the internet, it still seems the SDS7102 is competitive as a budget scope and not considered “yesterdays technology”.

I am asking if my conclusion is correct or is there more advanced scopes giving more bang-for-the-buck, keeping in mind the plus or minus US$500 budget.  Also is there anything coming up in the pipeline for which I should hold off making a purchase.  There must be new models coming up and I would hate to make a purchase just months before the latest and greatest comes out.

Any comments ?

Len

[TheAmmoniacal]

Any reason picking this over the Rigol ds1054z?

[LPS]

Hi,

Wanting to get back into hobby electronics after 30 years away from it I would like to own a scope and the budget DSOs are priced right and I want to learn what the technology can do for me.  I don’t have a specific purpose in mind, just general use.

I was attracted to they lay-out of the controls, it has a rechargeable battery with gives me options to quickly place the scope anywhere and start testing instead of worrying about having a power source nearby.  Battery is not a deal breaker, just thought it may come in useful.  The bigger 8 inch screen is another plus.  The fact it has an actual Ext Input for trigger, though since I posted this message I have learned by reading other messages that one of the 4 channels would act as an External Trigger source on the 1054z

The hacking to unlock more features is not a big plus, frankly I would be scared of bricking it, special as I assume the Manufacturers have got to be getting wise to this by now.

I guess I don’t have a strong reason, it was just what seemed right, but that is why I’m asking for opinions and experience from others, I can be swayed.

As I mentioned, its 5 years since the SDS7102 has come out and knowing my luck, the moment I buy, they will come out with a new model.

thanks,

Len

[Zero999]

I have both and they are perfectly good oscilloscopes. To summarise:

I like the Owon's battery, the large screen and that it's lightweight and portable.

The Rigol has four channels and more features but I find it a bit cumbersome.

[technogeeky]

Hi,

Wanting to get back into hobby electronics after 30 years away from it I would like to own a scope and the budget DSOs are priced right and I want to learn what the technology can do for me.  I don’t have a specific purpose in mind, just general use.

I was attracted to they lay-out of the controls, it has a rechargeable battery with gives me options to quickly place the scope anywhere and start testing instead of worrying about having a power source nearby.  Battery is not a deal breaker, just thought it may come in useful.  The bigger 8 inch screen is another plus.  The fact it has an actual Ext Input for trigger, though since I posted this message I have learned by reading other messages that one of the 4 channels would act as an External Trigger source on the 1054z

The hacking to unlock more features is not a big plus, frankly I would be scared of bricking it, special as I assume the Manufacturers have got to be getting wise to this by now.

I guess I don’t have a strong reason, it was just what seemed right, but that is why I’m asking for opinions and experience from others, I can be swayed.

As I mentioned, its 5 years since the SDS7102 has come out and knowing my luck, the moment I buy, they will come out with a new model.

thanks,

Len

Some factors to consider:

1. You can easily duplicate the functionality of a battery operated oscilloscope by combining a UPS (in unplugged, battery powered mode) and the oscilloscope. This is also usually the cheapest way to get galvanic isolation (which is necessary to be able to haphazardly probe circuits). The 'uncleanliness' of this powering method has no effect on the performance of the 1054z, but I can't speak for other oscilloscopes. The Rigol can also be run directly from DC power (~ 35 volts or more), and the only problem here is that the AC trigger functionality no longer works (usually not a problem).

2. When comparing screen sizes, keep in mind both the size of the screen and the number of graduations. The Owon seems to be: 15 divisions wide (14 with a half on either side), 10 divisions tall. The Rigol 1504z is 12 divisions wide, 8 divisions tall. The Owon seems to use nearly all of the screen, and the Rigol uses about 4 divisions wide for button labels (2 left, 2 right), and 2 divisions tall for information. In other words, the overall characterization of the two is that the Rigol reserves a portion of the display for the labels (so the graph is smaller overall), but the additional screensize of the Owon is half wasted (the bottom right hand side of the Owon display that is mostly blue paint). In addition, some people have preferences for these sorts of things - some people seem to like even numbers of graduations, some prefer identical x and y axes. I don't have the luxury to make such a preference.

3. The Rigol's 4 channels explains the differences in controls: the Owon, with an extra two knobs, gets dedicated vertical controls per channel.

4. Depending on what you plan to do, it can be critically important to have at least 3 channels. This is because of the existence of important 3-wire buses like SPI, I2S, etc. Yes, it's true that logic analyses play a role here (I have the $5 knock-off one and I love it!) -- but if you want to correlate a bus signal to a non-logic-level-voltage signal (anything above 5V) you will need 4+ channels.

5. The Owon scores one for having a VGA output, assuming it works well. It can be wonderful having that big display being enlarged even further -- on a big monitor, on a projector, or recording it to video. On the other hand, the Rigol 1054z has quite a few software choices, one of which can take screenshots at the rate of about 3 per second, which can be easily stitched into video.

6. The Rigol 1054z probably outsells the Owon many (10? 100?) to one. This means there are more people testing the product, and assuming that the two companies are equally responsive to firmware problems, then the Rigol should be more refined and have more bugs. I do not claim to know if this is true, however.

7. There is absolutely no reason to think the "hacked" options are going away. They have been available for many years now. Rigol certainly knows about the hacking, and they have chosen not to do anything about it. It's very likely the hackability is part of their popularity, and they know this. Rolling back people who have hacked their scopes would piss of tremendous numbers of people and would ruin them in the eyes of the hobbyist public.

8. The Rigol HELP system is actually pretty good, especially for beginners. Also, the firmware hackers in another thread are beginning to understand how this is written, so it's possible that we could one day be putting custom information in the firmware to make it even more useful (more diagrams, more reference material, etc).

9. The Rigol (obviously) comes with 2 extra probes, which are worth at least $10-15 each.

10. The Owon has a 200 MHz rate and 2GS/s rate, while the Rigol is about 100 (supposedly 130 effectively) with a 1 GS/s rate. This means the Nyquist rate for the Owon really is substantially higher, so if you need to scope rates which are in the 100-200 MHz range, then the Rigol will fail you.

I don't mean to sway you from one or the other in general, I just want to make sure you consider as much as possible before making a choice. Good luck!

[tautech]

I have both and they are perfectly good oscilloscopes. To summarise:

I like the Owon's battery, the large screen and that it's lightweight and portable.

The Rigol has four channels and more features but I find it a bit cumbersome.

The UI or the menus ?

[Zero999]

I have both and they are perfectly good oscilloscopes. To summarise:

I like the Owon's battery, the large screen and that it's lightweight and portable.

The Rigol has four channels and more features but I find it a bit cumbersome.

The UI or the menus ?

I meant physically. Compared to the OWON, the Rigol is big and bulky.

[tautech]

I have both and they are perfectly good oscilloscopes. To summarise:

I like the Owon's battery, the large screen and that it's lightweight and portable.

The Rigol has four channels and more features but I find it a bit cumbersome.

The UI or the menus ?

I meant physically. Compared to the OWON, the Rigol is big and bulky.

OK thanks, I guess it's what you're used to. 

I had that same opinion of the SDS1000X series when they were first released compared to the still existing SDS1000C*L models, however a 1054Z is a 4 channel DSO and that additional HW has to go somewhere. It would be even bulkier if there were individual vertical controls for each channel like the Owon or Siglents.
Even with these entry level scopes there's a move to larger displays and increased functionality so the enclosures do get larger in order to pack all this in and manage the byproduct of heat from the ever increasing functionality.

[LPS]

Hi,

To start with I’d like to say a couple things, a thanks for all who replied, being new to forums I’m a bit overwhelmed by the time others spend to answer my questions.  Also to reiterate this is for hobby purposes, so I can’t define what scope specs I need, just want to buy something that will give me the most options in the future.

As I looked at what is available at the equipment sites I read in the spec sheets that Rigol had no EXT trigger input so I completely crossed Rigol off the list.  Later as I read EEVBlog forum messages I seen someone said something that really caught my eye, paraphrasing: Owan = 2 channels, Rigol has 4, use one as an external trigger input and that leaves Rigol = 3 channels.  No brainer.  To make sure I understand, can someone please confirm with a Rigol 1000Z series, 1054Z included, if I clip channel 1 test probe on a signal I want to look at, and I clip, for example, channel 3 test probe on a signal I want to use to trigger the start of the sweep, that the Rigol software will allow me to choose channel 3 as a trigger source for the sweep?  I would assume that applies to any combination of the channels.  If that is so, then Rigol is on my list!  Also shows you how little I know about DSOs.

1. You can easily duplicate the functionality of a battery operated oscilloscope by combining a UPS (in unplugged, battery powered mode) and the oscilloscope. This is also usually the cheapest way to get galvanic isolation (which is necessary to be able to haphazardly probe circuits). The 'uncleanliness' of this powering method has no effect on the performance of the 1054z, but I can't speak for other oscilloscopes. The Rigol can also be run directly from DC power (~ 35 volts or more), and the only problem here is that the AC trigger functionality no longer works (usually not a problem).

Didn’t think of that, using the UPS is a good idea to make a scope portable.

I’m working in a remote location with VERY poor internet bandwidth and quite a bit of free time on my hands.  Downloading manuals and watching YouTube is out of the question.  This is to explain some of my questions that a person would assume I can watch a video on or read the manual without bothering others.

5. The Owon scores one for having a VGA output, assuming it works well. It can be wonderful having that big display being enlarged even further -- on a big monitor, on a projector, or recording it to video. On the other hand, the Rigol 1054z has quite a few software choices, [a href=http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/]one of which[/a] can take screenshots at the rate of about 3 per second, which can be easily stitched into video.

The link you sent describes displaying the Rigol 1054Z screen on a PC using the USB/LAN.  I see SCPI is mentioned, does that mean the scope can also be controlled remotely with this software?  Also, does any similar Rigol software come with the Scope at the time of purchase?  Does it cost extra?  If provided by Rigol, does the software allow remote control of the scope control settings across USB or LAN?

I live in the Middle East where the voltage is 220VAC 50Hz.  I will make my scope purchase in the USA over the internet.  I looked at pictures of Rigol scopes on USA sites and it clearly shows 100 -240 VAC.  Can someone with a Rigol scope purchased in the USA just confirm this rating is actually stamped on the body on the back?

As I explained above, the Rigol 1000Z series is now becoming very interesting to me, fast going to the top of the list.  I may be able to convince myself (my wife actually) to spend more than I originally budgeted ( x2).  Of the Rigol line-up i am looking at the MSO1074Z which will give me adequate bandwidth, and the benefit of a 16 ch Digital Analyzer without extra hardware purchases later on.

Life’s funny, a week ago I started looking at the US$25 kit scopes with a 2.4” screen, now actually considering a US$800 MSO.  The site I am looking at offers a free Serial Decoder Bundle with appears to be software.

I know the 1054Z has a number of features to unlock by hacking, does the MSO1074Z have anything to gain by hacking?  I suspect it does, maybe more memory, Record Module, Advanced Trigger?

thanks in advance,

Len

[tautech]

Hi,

To start with I’d like to say a couple things, a thanks for all who replied, being new to forums I’m a bit overwhelmed by the time others spend to answer my questions.  Also to reiterate this is for hobby purposes, so I can’t define what scope specs I need, just want to buy something that will give me the most options in the future.

As I looked at what is available at the equipment sites I read in the spec sheets that Rigol had no EXT trigger input so I completely crossed Rigol off the list.  Later as I read EEVBlog forum messages I seen someone said something that really caught my eye, paraphrasing: Owan = 2 channels, Rigol has 4, use one as an external trigger input and that leaves Rigol = 3 channels.  No brainer.  To make sure I understand, can someone please confirm with a Rigol 1000Z series, 1054Z included, if I clip channel 1 test probe on a signal I want to look at, and I clip, for example, channel 3 test probe on a signal I want to use to trigger the start of the sweep, that the Rigol software will allow me to choose channel 3 as a trigger source for the sweep?  I would assume that applies to any combination of the channels.  If that is so, then Rigol is on my list!  Also shows you how little I know about DSOs.

That's why you're here. 

So now you understand why with your requirements a 1054Z is a 3 channel DSO so time to look at comparable brands.
All Siglent DSO's have an Ext Trig input, 2 and 4 channel models.
Individual vertical controls too. 
400V channel inputs.

And a true working 500uV/div setting. (SDS1000X)

[Zero999]

I have both and they are perfectly good oscilloscopes. To summarise:

I like the Owon's battery, the large screen and that it's lightweight and portable.

The Rigol has four channels and more features but I find it a bit cumbersome.

The UI or the menus ?

I meant physically. Compared to the OWON, the Rigol is big and bulky.

OK thanks, I guess it's what you're used to. 

I had that same opinion of the SDS1000X series when they were first released compared to the still existing SDS1000C*L models, however a 1054Z is a 4 channel DSO and that additional HW has to go somewhere. It would be even bulkier if there were individual vertical controls for each channel like the Owon or Siglents.
Even with these entry level scopes there's a move to larger displays and increased functionality so the enclosures do get larger in order to pack all this in and manage the byproduct of heat from the ever increasing functionality.

To be clear I was talking about the OWON SDS7102V vs the Rigol 1054Z. Yes the additional functionality has to go somewhere. I have them both and I use the OWON more because of it's compactness and battery. Not only is it lighter than the Rigol but it's also thinner too. I know I can run the Rigol off an external battery bank if I wanted to (I contemplated building one awhile ago) but it's still a clunky solution.

If portability wasn't one of my requirements, then the Rigol would win hands down but as I tend to use my 'scope on the move, away from the mains, the OWON gets more use.

[DavidMenting]

I just upgraded/crossgraded from an Owon SDS7102 to a Rigol DS1054z and am never going back. Even though I am missing the separate channel control and the battery pack, the Rigol seems so much more mature and of higher quality. Everything from the on-screen user interface, functionality, casing to the documentation are a lot better than the Owon.

I will gladly miss the battery and vga out (Owon) now that I have a scope that feels and acts like a real scope (Rigol). That might be different if you want to use it on the road like Hero999, although I am now using a Digilent Analog Discovery for that purpose.

[technogeeky]

I just upgraded/crossgraded from an Owon SDS7102 to a Rigol DS1054z and am never going back. Even though I am missing the separate channel control and the battery pack, the Rigol seems so much more mature and of higher quality. Everything from the on-screen user interface, functionality, casing to the documentation are a lot better than the Owon.

I will gladly miss the battery and vga out (Owon) now that I have a scope that feels and acts like a real scope (Rigol). That might be different if you want to use it on the road like Hero999, although I am now using a Digilent Analog Discovery for that purpose.

The link (or not, since I failed to link properly) above has a tool that will allow you to take 3 screengrabs a second from the scope. It only works that fast over USB; over Ethernet it is more like 1/second.

[technogeeky]

Hi,

To start with I’d like to say a couple things, a thanks for all who replied, being new to forums I’m a bit overwhelmed by the time others spend to answer my questions.  Also to reiterate this is for hobby purposes, so I can’t define what scope specs I need, just want to buy something that will give me the most options in the future.

As I looked at what is available at the equipment sites I read in the spec sheets that Rigol had no EXT trigger input so I completely crossed Rigol off the list.  Later as I read EEVBlog forum messages I seen someone said something that really caught my eye, paraphrasing: Owan = 2 channels, Rigol has 4, use one as an external trigger input and that leaves Rigol = 3 channels.  No brainer.  To make sure I understand, can someone please confirm with a Rigol 1000Z series, 1054Z included, if I clip channel 1 test probe on a signal I want to look at, and I clip, for example, channel 3 test probe on a signal I want to use to trigger the start of the sweep, that the Rigol software will allow me to choose channel 3 as a trigger source for the sweep?  I would assume that applies to any combination of the channels.  If that is so, then Rigol is on my list!  Also shows you how little I know about DSOs.

Yes. You can view an external trigger input as a degraded front panel input.

The link you sent describes displaying the Rigol 1054Z screen on a PC using the USB/LAN.  I see SCPI is mentioned, does that mean the scope can also be controlled remotely with this software?  Also, does any similar Rigol software come with the Scope at the time of purchase?  Does it cost extra?  If provided by Rigol, does the software allow remote control of the scope control settings across USB or LAN?

The software is free and can be downloaded online. I think there might be a CD included, I forget. All of the other utilities (DSRemote, the aforementioned Rigol B..., and the spectrum analysis software, and etc) are free.

I live in the Middle East where the voltage is 220VAC 50Hz.  I will make my scope purchase in the USA over the internet.  I looked at pictures of Rigol scopes on USA sites and it clearly shows 100 -240 VAC.  Can someone with a Rigol scope purchased in the USA just confirm this rating is actually stamped on the body on the back?

Yes. The power supply can run from very few (~ 30) to lots (300) volts, AC or DC.

As I explained above, the Rigol 1000Z series is now becoming very interesting to me, fast going to the top of the list.  I may be able to convince myself (my wife actually) to spend more than I originally budgeted ( x2).  Of the Rigol line-up i am looking at the MSO1074Z which will give me adequate bandwidth, and the benefit of a 16 ch Digital Analyzer without extra hardware purchases later on.

Life’s funny, a week ago I started looking at the US$25 kit scopes with a 2.4” screen, now actually considering a US$800 MSO.  The site I am looking at offers a free Serial Decoder Bundle with appears to be software.

I would not recommend the 1074Z. It depends on the signals you intend to look at. In my view, because one can purchase the generic (actually saelae copied) 8 channel logic analyzer at around $5 which is a tremendous value for money, you should stick with the scope and buy one (or several) of the 8 channel LAs. You can not necessarily use many of them at the same time, but if you make a mistake and blow up the input of the LA (LA inputs are less robust than scope inputs, usually...) then you can just swap it out for $5.

I know the 1054Z has a number of features to unlock by hacking, does the MSO1074Z have anything to gain by hacking?  I suspect it does, maybe more memory, Record Module, Advanced Trigger?

I don't know the 1074z options.

[LPS]

Hi,

Well after much discussion inside my head as to what to buy, first choosing the Owon SDS7102, then the Rigol MSO1074Z and finally deciding on the Rigol DS1054Z for which I have just placed an ordered.  Santa is good to me this year.  Peeps in EEVblog played a big roll in my decision.  Thanks.

I still like the MSO1074Z, but for the amount I will use the LA, paying double the price of the 1054Z for a “just nice to have” feature was too much money.  And that will leave me enough to get a much better Waveform Generator than the US$60 one that I was originally considering.

The reason I went for the DS1054Z :

Priced right for my budget level for a hobby/learning scope.

4 channels, learning at EEVblog that a channel can be used as an Ext Sync channel was a big piece of useful information.  And just too many people said 4 channels will soon come handy.

Seems much simpler to unlock, I watched a video regarding the MSO1074Z, my eyes glazed over when the guy went through making the JTAG cable, the USB interface to PC, the memory dump and analysis of the dump, I’m not ready for that?

Len