Hakko FX-888 110V -> 230V mod

[saturation]

DaveXRQ is right, it may not be apparent until when you start using the unit more frequently.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/50-60hz.htm#s40

This topic brought a question to mind:

Will a Hakko FX888 120V/60Hz safely run on 50Hz AC power, as would happen if plugged into a 230V - 120V stepdown transformer? Will the difference in AC frequency have any ill effects on it?

[Architect_1077]

Well, does anyone know if the 120v FX888 transformer is spec'd to run at both freqs, or just at 60Hz?

Also, here's a previous quote from another member:

If you just want to run the iron, a cheap auto transformer will do.

I take it then that this information is false?

[saturation]

No, sorry.  The restrictions may also explain why the 120V fx888 is cheaper, higher frequency transformers are a bit cheaper to make compared to lower frequency.



Theoretically you can run a 50 Hz transformer at 60 Hz without issue, and its formally posted on the 230V units.

Well, does anyone know if the 120v FX888 transformer is spec'd to run at both freqs, or just at 60Hz?

Also, here's a previous quote from another member:

If you just want to run the iron, a cheap auto transformer will do.

I take it then that this information is false?

Its not strictly false as in wrong, because its possible the Hakko transformer can take it, as the duty cycle during use will unlikely approach 100%, unless you are soldering like mad.  But its not preferred.  The good news is you'll easily feel transformers overheating, they rarely ever run too hot to touch aka, > 50^oC.  Not using the transformer at 100% is akin to derating it to the actual duty cycle during use, so its possible you could get away with a variac dialed down to 120V if you aren't a heavy user, i.e., the red light stays on perpetually rather than blinking.

http://www.edn.com/blog/PowerSource/36244-Specifying_a_Transformer_Why_does_50Hz_make_such_a_difference_.php

[Architect_1077]

Great... so using a step down autotransformer 230v - 110v is still not good enough because it will be running at 50Hz? 
Wish I had become aware of this before actually buying the Iron. I had become convinced it wasn't a problem especially after reading several other replies stating it was safe...
Ok, suppose it is run at 105v 50Hz? Will that mitigate any possible overheating??

As an alternative, where can I get a replacement internal transformer for the Hakko?

[RCMR]

I'm running my 110V/60Hz Hakko FX-888 through a step-down transformer 230->110 @50Hz and the base unit runs barely warm to the touch, even after prolonged use.

I don't think the frequency issue is a problem.

[Architect_1077]

Thanks! Really appreciate it! That's good to know 

[Uncle Vernon]

Great... so using a step down autotransformer 230v - 110v is still not good enough because it will be running at 50Hz?

Possibly it depends on the ratings of each component.

Wish I had become aware of this before actually buying the Iron. I had become convinced it wasn't a problem especially after reading several other replies stating it was safe...

Safety is relative. The thing is not going to blow up in your face if used with a correctly rated stepdown transformer,

Ok, suppose it is run at 105v 50Hz? Will that mitigate any possible overheating??

Ohms law will probably get you. Reduce the voltage and the current required goes up.

As an alternative, where can I get a replacement internal transformer for the Hakko?

From Hakko if you want a drop in replacement, which will probably cost near the price of a complete iron if available. Otherwise all you need to do is find a good quality TX that closely meets electrical and physical specifications.

An external TX is probably the best solution for the iron 110V unit you have, what you have to watch is the tolerances of TX and the Hakko. A cheap, poorly regulated or unsafe TX will likely end in tears a good one should work but will still be a PITA.

[Architect_1077]

The thing is not going to blow up in your face if used with a correctly rated stepdown transformer

What exactly does "correctly rated" mean? I have 3 step down auto transformers. One of them can even be regulated according to input voltage for 188-212v, 212-238v or 238-260v. Given Portugal's mains voltage to be 245v (don't know why, supposed to be 230v), I can have the TX output 105v, 120v or 130v.

[T4P]

The thing is not going to blow up in your face if used with a correctly rated stepdown transformer

What exactly does "correctly rated" mean? I have 3 step down auto transformers. One of them can even be regulated according to input voltage for 188-212v, 212-238v or 238-260v. Given Portugal's mains voltage to be 245v (don't know why, supposed to be 230v), I can have the TX output 105v, 120v or 130v.

No . 50Hz and 60Hz
All 50Hz equipment works fine with 60Hz but not vice versa.

[vk6zgo]

The thing is not going to blow up in your face if used with a correctly rated stepdown transformer

What exactly does "correctly rated" mean? I have 3 step down auto transformers. One of them can even be regulated according to input voltage for 188-212v, 212-238v or 238-260v. Given Portugal's mains voltage to be 245v (don't know why, supposed to be 230v), I can have the TX output 105v, 120v or 130v.

No . 50Hz and 60Hz
All 50Hz equipment works fine with 60Hz but not vice versa.

I don't think a soldering iron is going to be so heavily loaded that the extra losses incurred by the use of 50Hz will be a real problem,unless the internal transformer is very poorly specified.

A lot of North American & Japanese origin stuff is in use in 50Hz countries,without having been specially designed for that frequency in the first place.
High power stuff,like,for instance Ham Linear amplifiers,is sometimes offered with the option of US 240v 60Hz.or
Aus/Europe,etc, 240v 50Hz transformers,but small stuff seldom will be a problem.

[T4P]

The thing is not going to blow up in your face if used with a correctly rated stepdown transformer

What exactly does "correctly rated" mean? I have 3 step down auto transformers. One of them can even be regulated according to input voltage for 188-212v, 212-238v or 238-260v. Given Portugal's mains voltage to be 245v (don't know why, supposed to be 230v), I can have the TX output 105v, 120v or 130v.

No . 50Hz and 60Hz
All 50Hz equipment works fine with 60Hz but not vice versa.

I don't think a soldering iron is going to be so heavily loaded that the extra losses incurred by the use of 50Hz will be a real problem,unless the internal transformer is very poorly specified.

A lot of North American & Japanese origin stuff is in use in 50Hz countries,without having been specially designed for that frequency in the first place.
High power stuff,like,for instance Ham Linear amplifiers,is sometimes offered with the option of US 240v 60Hz.or
Aus/Europe,etc, 240v 50Hz transformers,but small stuff seldom will be a problem.

Yeah not a problem unless maybe some china stuff

[Architect_1077]

Here's an ebay link to the exact model I have of the 3 tap auto transformer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TODD-SYSTEMS-SD-33-LRG-3-TAP-STEPDOWN-AUTO-TRANSFORMER-188-260-105v-/190680692692

The other two I have are from the same brand but different model.

[Uncle Vernon]

The thing is not going to blow up in your face if used with a correctly rated stepdown transformer

What exactly does "correctly rated" mean?

Oh maybe sufficient secondary amps, correct secondary voltage, all for continuous operation at the intended operating temperatures. Sound correct to you?

I don't think a soldering iron is going to be so heavily loaded that the extra losses incurred by the use of 50Hz will be a real problem,unless the internal transformer is very poorly specified.

A lot of North American & Japanese origin stuff is in use in 50Hz countries,without having been specially designed for that frequency in the first place.
High power stuff,like,for instance Ham Linear amplifiers,is sometimes offered with the option of US 240v 60Hz.or
Aus/Europe,etc, 240v 50Hz transformers,but small stuff seldom will be a problem.

Pretty much it!  Most smaller stuff will have sufficient tolerance. The harder equipment runs the more the frequency difference is likely to be an issue. The iron would unlikely be an issue.

[Architect_1077]

Sound correct to you?

Yes it does. Thank you.
Also, if you check my previous reply you can see a link to one of the transformers I have, with the specs shown.

[Zero999]

The thing is not going to blow up in your face if used with a correctly rated stepdown transformer

What exactly does "correctly rated" mean? I have 3 step down auto transformers. One of them can even be regulated according to input voltage for 188-212v, 212-238v or 238-260v. Given Portugal's mains voltage to be 245v (don't know why, supposed to be 230v), I can have the TX output 105v, 120v or 130v.

No . 50Hz and 60Hz
All 50Hz equipment works fine with 60Hz but not vice versa.

No, any transformer which will work at 20% higher than the rated voltage will be fine at 20% lower frequency, so long as the rated voltage isn't exceeded.

[Miles Teg]

Hello!

I get my 220V - 2X12V - 26VA transformer.





Could you check my new wiring?
I'm mainly concern about the center point for transformer secondary, as it get 4 poles instead of 3.
So i guess I could gather the 2 center pins and get a total of 24V on extrem pins.
Right?

[Tube_Dude]

As it is better to be safer than sorry, why not to disconnect the secondary wiring to the PCB , and measure if you have 24 V AC, with the mains connected to primary
...

[Miles Teg]

Ha yes, good idea, thank you.

So tested, give 27V. Solder again to Hakko main board, plug the iron, and it works!! 

[T4P]

Ha yes, good idea, thank you.

So tested, give 27V. Solder again to Hakko main board, plug the iron, and it works!! 

26VA ? O.o

What's the voltage taps on the original xfmr? 24 and something or just 24 CT ?

[Miles Teg]

26 VA. I guess from other advice, power delivery was around 25-30VA.

On other tips of another FW888 user, the secondary voltage without load was 27V and 24V with load.

[Architect_1077]

Miles, a 26VA transformer is not enough. You'd need something more like a 100VA transformer, depending on the power factor.

A device's actual power is less than it's apparent power (it's VA rating).

[T4P]

The original transformer is like 80VA for obvious reasons.
You're gonna begin complaining how you do not have enough thermal capacity because basically you are only getting 20W the original heater is 70W!

[Uncle Vernon]

Miles, a 26VA transformer is not enough. You'd need something more like a 100VA transformer, depending on the power factor.

A device's actual power is less than it's apparent power (it's VA rating).

That transformer looks a little larger than 26VA. I could be wrong! If it was in fact 26VA rated you would expect the voltage to have dropped and or the thing getting very hot when the iron was drawing current.  I think Miles may have misquoted the ratings of his mystery transformer. Maybe he can point to a data sheet for it.

[Architect_1077]

That transformer looks a little larger than 26VA. I could be wrong! If it was in fact 26VA rated you would expect the voltage to have dropped and or the thing getting very hot when the iron was drawing current.  I think Miles may have misquoted the ratings of his mystery transformer. Maybe he can point to a data sheet for it.

Yeah, you could be right.

[Miles Teg]

I'm not worrying of using a new 26VA transformer only.

I got another advice here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/hakko-fx-888-teardown-review/msg59331/#msg59331

And my new transformer got mostly same size than old one. And it is working fine.