Author Topic: Fluke 289 (Read 10970 times)

mhs2xs · « **on:** February 04, 2011, 04:19:22 pm »

Greetings All,
I'm fairly new to electronics and have recently been researching some higher end DMM's.
After going thru several crap meters over the years, I want to buy the last meter I'll ever need. I'm getting into the modification of microphones and preamps. I need a meter that will handle the small electronic stuff, as well as electrical troubleshooting when required. Mics can be intermittent and troublesome sometimes. That's why I'm considering the 289 for the logging functions. I know it's a lot of meter, but I need something smaller. I know I could get a benchtop that would suffice, but they're so big that I don't have the room. Most of my work will be done on a coffee table or on my desk that's already got a mixing board and studio monitors on it along with my monster computer.

So, is the 289 the last meter I'll probably ever need to measure and troubleshoot small electronic components as well as the occasional power amp and the like? The Agilent 1253A/B seems worthy, but for just a little more, the Fluke just seems to be the way to go.

All suggestions and advice welcome.

Cheers!
Mitchell

grenert · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2011, 04:43:32 pm »

For daily (non-logging) use, I find the 289 a little cumbersome. It's too big and heavy, and there is a little lag of a few seconds every time you turn it on when it "boots up." For routine testing, I prefer a simpler Fluke 79-III or an old-school 8060A. It also eats batteries (they say something like 100-200 hours; can't remember exactly). I just switched to using Eneloop rechargeables a little while ago. I don't know how well that will work, but I imagine it will be OK because the dead alkalines drained down to about 1V.

Despite these complaints, if you need logging and high resolution in a "handheld," I don't know of a better meter.

Excavatoree · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2011, 05:23:20 pm »

I'd think for checking microphones, you'd be better off with an oscilloscope. One sufficient for checking microphones would not be much more than a Fluke 289, and you'd have more capability for checking audio gear. You could then buy a less expensive multimeter for other electrical and/or electronic work.

Even if you did stick with a multimeter, you could save a few bucks by getting a 287. Unlike the 189/187, both the 287 and 289 have data logging. However, I don't think that feature will do much good for mic troubleshooting, but that's just my preference/opinion.

saturation · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2011, 06:26:39 pm »

Just my 2c.

For datalogging using a DMM, the 289 series is helpful if you truly need portability and a built in screen to see the waveforms and still be in the CAT III and IV protection level. But, the trade off is the DMM is fairly large and costs in the $500 range.

The new Agilent 1272A or other in the series, have specs to meet, or exceed that Fluke 87V, but it costs more than the 87V and less than the 289, ~ $340, $31 for the data cable, not sure if software is included and price ??. But many models at its level and more in the Agilent line have USB connections, and you can get the cable and use a laptop to interface and collect data, as needed, and still have the compact form of a standard DMM. There often are safety concerns bringing a laptop into a CAT III or IV work area, which you wouldn't need to bring if you used a standalone 289 as a datalogger. The 289 is ~ rated 2x more accurate than the Agilent, e.g. its basic DC is 0.05% vs 0.025%, but its a very subtle difference, and comparing the number of least significant random noise digit counts, they are about on-par.

For mics and amps, a scope is better, but they are typically not CAT III or IV rated for other work besides audio. Also, in the $500 range, there aren't many hand held scopes of good quality, one that is talked about often but few reviews in the Hantek DS1060; its not as good a scope as a dedicated desktop scope, and its not as robust as a handheld DMM, its reputation is not very established, its CAT III level safety is unknown, and that's the tradeoff.

In terms of quality to last you a 'lifetime', the better bet is Fluke and Agilent as a DMM and datalogger.

With an external i/o port, the onboard memory won't be an issue, as the external computer can store all the data you'd like to collect.

mhs2xs · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2011, 06:55:30 pm »

Thanks to all for your advice. I'll begin researching scopes. Any decent manufacturers in the 300 400 range? B&K Ptecision?

Also, I'm thinking I should at least consider say, the 179, as a higher end DMM because I still need to be accurate with my readings.
Or, some of the lesser models may be sufficient such as the 77IV, or even 115/117, although I'd prefer to stay with the higher end ones.
I don't know enough yet about what I may encounter with this gear to make sure I have bases covered with the range/accuracy of the meters I'm considering.
Hence my post here.
I'm a Mechanical goon that had one EE course in college, and that was almost 20 years ago.
Those brain cells have long since been sacrificed (but I still have my textbook) and I'm trying to learn now.
I'd rather spend the money now than go thru several $100 meters because they aren't worthy or don't have the accuracy or range.

Thanks again for the help and please, feel free to chime in w/ suggestions on what you think I'll need by way of a scope and meter combination to get me started.

I had a scope about 10 years ago was given to me. It weighed about 80lbs and was the size of a suitcase.
I need something small, or smaller, that I can stash until I need to break it out.

Cheers!
Mitchell

Here's the schematic for my first troublesome project. The mic is making a noise by itself, like somthing is bumping it, and someone who knows these mics said this:

The entire signal path is those 2 dual opamps and a pair of 47 uf bipolar caps. Either the caps are leaking or the opamps are damaged. Replacing them should solve the problems, UNLESS it's the capsule. To determine if that may be a problem, kick in the -20 db pad and that noise should go down. It's also possible the 3 other el caps are also damaged, replacing all of them is a correct service decision.

I assume he was talking about just downstream of the cardioid/omni/fig8 switch as it's the only opamps (U3A & U3B) I see just upstream of the only two 47uF caps if I'm reading it correctly. Any insight into this problem, as well as my meter problem would be most appreciated.

Also, I've located the opamp(s) in circuit upstream of the 47uF caps, is there an easy way to test them w/ a cheap DMM (Extech MN16A) just to see if they're functioning? I also have a Craftsman 82040. What setting do I use?

Thanks

alm · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2011, 10:39:11 am »

Quote from: mhs2xs on February 04, 2011, 06:55:30 pm

Thanks to all for your advice. I'll begin researching scopes. Any decent manufacturers in the 300 400 range? B&K Ptecision?

Search this forum, lots has been written about this. Most popular is the Rigol DS1052E, although competing models from Instek and Hantek/Tekway appear to be superior products.

All are lunchbox-size DSOs, so they should satisfy your size requirements. Not sure about price, but you can easily look that up.

mhs2xs · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2011, 09:08:40 pm »

Will do. Read a couple of reviews on the Rigol 1052's recently. Seems like a decent product. I'll cehck the others.

Also, got a quote on an 87V of $290 shipped from tooldiscounter.com, seems reasonable, and it appears it will do all I need it to do and more.

Am I reading the specs correctly that the 87V is suitable for small electronics as well as industrial electrical uses?

And one more question about scopes, what bandwidth rating is suitable for check audio components? 20MHz minimum?

Thanks

mhs2xs · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2011, 03:23:58 pm »

Bought a DS1052E yesterday. Do I need a signal generator as well, or is a function generator more of what I would need?
Or can I properly test the circuits I spoke of w/o one?
If I need one, what is a recommended type/model?

Thanks,
Mitchell

saturation · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2011, 04:11:31 pm »

Wow, that was quick. The 87V is suitable for most all general purpose electronic and electrical work.

Here's the general approach, your friend summarized it too with the schematic.

Remove the mic or bridge it with a suitable resistor ~ mics impedance. Inject a mV signal sine wave of 1kHz into where the mic should have been, and check the output of the preamp, if the sine waves are good, then the mic is bad. See if you have any quick substitute mic to alligator clip here to confirm the electronics work, then you can buy the proper part. If the output is distorted, then from the mic's input, follow the signal upstream of the mic with the scope until it distorts. The stage where it distorts is the first thing to repair; fix that, and move upstream until all the stages are done.

Enjoy and happy hunting!

saturation · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2011, 04:15:35 pm »

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2009.msg33545#msg33545

Should help. I could recommend the Instek SFG1003, but you don't want to buy too much if you don't know how to use it, you can get low cost signal sources for under $50.

Quote from: mhs2xs on February 06, 2011, 03:23:58 pm

Bought a DS1052E yesterday. Do I need a signal generator as well, or is a function generator more of what I would need?
Or can I properly test the circuits I spoke of w/o one?
If I need one, what is a recommended type/model?

Thanks,
Mitchell

mhs2xs · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2011, 07:39:57 pm »

Thanks Saturation, I really appreciate it.
Yeah, since I have the money right now, I'd better spend it before it gets pissed away.

As soon as I get all my equipment ready and begin troubleshooting, I'll post the results here. From what I can tell with the meter I have, the 47uF caps may be bleeding. When I put the meter on them, it jumps to around 300nF and then settles at about 87-90uF on both main caps. Should it not be closer the the spec'd capacitance of 47 though if they were ok? What I don't know is, if it's just because of the cheap meter that I'm getting this reading. Hopefully the Rigol will tell me something I can trust.

Still looking to get the 87V down the road, but per the advice from here and a couple of friends, I figured the scope would be a more important instrument to have for this sort of thing, moreso than the meter at this point. I figured I'd be better off with a $400 scope and a $200 meter rather than just a $600 meter for what I'm trying to do here.

Thanks again....

Mitchell

Edit: That Instek SFG1003 looks nice. I don't mind getting too much, because I'm gonna have a lot of reading to do regardless and I'd rather get something that will be useful down the road as my needs/knowledge increase rather than having to buy more gear.

saturation · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2011, 11:40:05 am »

You're welcome. Alas, measuring capacitance in circuit is error prone; unless the capacitor is alone, and substantially bigger than anything else in parallel with it, so it dominates all the capacitance down the line. You can only know that by checking the schematic. However, if the ESR rises in an electrolytic, it could also change the behavior of the circuit to produce noise, rather than malfunction.

A low risk simple test is simply place another equivalent cap say 47uF, across the suspected one, if the sound improves, then desolder the bad cap and check it for sure. It won't make the sound perfect, as the defect in the cap may not just be its capacitance, but any change means that suspect cap is probably involved too.

Quote from: mhs2xs on February 06, 2011, 07:39:57 pm

Thanks Saturation, I really appreciate it.
Yeah, since I have the money right now, I'd better spend it before it gets pissed away.

As soon as I get all my equipment ready and begin troubleshooting, I'll post the results here. From what I can tell with the meter I have, the 47uF caps may be bleeding. When I put the meter on them, it jumps to around 300nF and then settles at about 87-90uF on both main caps. Should it not be closer the the spec'd capacitance of 47 though if they were ok? What I don't know is, if it's just because of the cheap meter that I'm getting this reading. Hopefully the Rigol will tell me something I can trust.

Still looking to get the 87V down the road, but per the advice from here and a couple of friends, I figured the scope would be a more important instrument to have for this sort of thing, moreso than the meter at this point. I figured I'd be better off with a $400 scope and a $200 meter rather than just a $600 meter for what I'm trying to do here.

Thanks again....

Mitchell

Edit: That Instek SFG1003 looks nice. I don't mind getting too much, because I'm gonna have a lot of reading to do regardless and I'd rather get something that will be useful down the road as my needs/knowledge increase rather than having to buy more gear.

mhs2xs · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2011, 02:52:20 pm »

I believe I've fixed my problem with my microphone after some addtional cleaning of some corrosion (thanks to the lying eBayer) out of the thru holes in a PCB.

Thanks to all for your suggestions. My scope is out for delivery now. Woohoo...first order of business is to check the firmware version.
I will then begin to look at DMM's again.

Cheers!
Mitchell

Alex · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2011, 05:19:43 pm »

I have a Fluke 289/ViewForms combo kit. I can verify that it eats its 6 AA batteries faster that lower range DMMs. Manual says 100 hours, much less than that with the beautiful EL backlight on. I can't comment on similar DMMs from other manufacturers. The meter is not heavy, but it is quite big.

I would not recommend it for daily all-round use, its too complex. Its like using a scientific calculator to calculate VAT cost of a product. It does have a plethora of features plus an exceptional built quality which make it one of those instruments that is a pleasure to use.

If you are busy with other things most of the week and want a 'cannon' for when you do need to make a measurement the 289 excels. I find the trendplotting feature very useful when I need to check the behaviour of a circuit over long periods of time, eg a bias voltage as enclosure temperature increases. Unlike cheaper DMMs, it can measure the true RMS value of an AC waveform superimposed on a large DC bias. The bargraph is exceptionally fast, 30fps. It can measure dBV and the 289 has a more to measure low resistance values. The nanoSiemens conductance mode allows you to measure dissipative resistance of 100GOhms.

Many of its features are great to have available on your lab bench but not a show-stopper if you don't.

It is not an oscilloscope though (I think the trendplot has a min interval of 1 second but it can capture events that exceed a predetermined window). So to repeat what others have suggested, you need an oscilloscope for that. Good luck.

mhs2xs · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2011, 05:36:08 pm »

Thanks for the insight. It is the one I'd want if I get into this really heavy. For now, I'll tread with the Rigol and eventually end up w/ an 87V. If this goes like everything else I get into, I'll end up w/ a collection of decent stuff, much to my wife's puzzlement. But she's good about it.

Cheers!
Mitchell

Richard W. · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2011, 08:46:16 pm »

Could somebody please take some fotos of the Fluke 289 display?
Maybe one picture with a main function, one with a graph and one with text (that info-button)

Just to see how it looks like.

Thank you in advance

regards
Richard

Alex · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2011, 09:14:35 pm »

Here are a few pictures Richard. The camera was not able to capture the backlight colour of the screen, it is more white than it looks.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1879/dsc03422d.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8523/dsc03423yp.jpg
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6293/dsc03427m.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1126/dsc03424z.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2528/dsc03425z.jpg

Richard W. · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2011, 09:24:06 pm »

Many Thanks

SgtRock · « **Reply #18 on:** November 07, 2011, 11:01:48 pm »

Dear Alex:

--Wow, I love that Fluke 289 display. Don't that purty! beautimous! There is one on eBay with two days to go and a high bid of $160, for pickup only in Ottumwa Iowa, USA.

"The telegraph is a kind of a very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Radio operates the same way, except there is no cat."
Albert Einstein 1879-1936

Best Regards
Clear Ether


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Author Topic: Fluke 289 (Read 10970 times)

alm

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