AMD : Enabling Parallel Processing

[T4P]

Brilliant. But will it deliver?

[HardBoot]

I wish AMD made micros like Atmel/Microchip, they already make a ton of cheap CPUs for various markets.

[NiHaoMike]

I'm waiting for AMD to ditch much of the backwards compatibility nonsense in x86 so that Intel would follow. (Or conversely, if Intel makes the move first, AMD would probably follow soon.)

Really, the fact that x86 is still encumbered by backwards compatibility features (that are rarely, if ever, used nowadays) means it is at a disadvantage compared to ARM. I predict that eventually, one of the two big x86 makers would drop some backwards compatibility features in order to stay competitive once ARM catches up in terms of process.

[T4P]

I wish AMD made micros like Atmel/Microchip, they already make a ton of cheap CPUs for various markets.

It would be awesome if they did! Well, every chip they make now beats the compeititor on the same price bracket.

[poptones]

Would you buy a computer that had half the cpu instruction set locked away?

It's all crap until they start releasing complete docs on these apus.

[Simon]

Until software is made to use multicore its a waste of time.

[T4P]

Modern Software is made to use multicore.
Tell me one modern CAD that isn't faster with multicore (except that shithole DXDesigner)

It's that they need to be written in OpenCL

[Monkeh]

I'm waiting for AMD to ditch much of the backwards compatibility nonsense in x86 so that Intel would follow. (Or conversely, if Intel makes the move first, AMD would probably follow soon.)

Really, the fact that x86 is still encumbered by backwards compatibility features (that are rarely, if ever, used nowadays) means it is at a disadvantage compared to ARM. I predict that eventually, one of the two big x86 makers would drop some backwards compatibility features in order to stay competitive once ARM catches up in terms of process.

It's more than just the CPUs. The entire platform needs to move on. ATX needs to die, expansion cards need a new format more suited to high power cards.

[T4P]

What's with ATX again? I don't see a problem 
If ATX didn't exist we would have all sorts of funny board sizes and many case sizes for the same form factor

[poptones]

I really don't see the problem with any of it. CPUs add and shift. Modern x86 cpus are so optimized you can execute multiple instructions on every clock. The SIMD instructions in x86 are pretty simple to use, and they are fast as blazes. I used to love grinding out highly optimized assembly language code. Would be fun to work on these new pipelines, but so much of the features are closely guarded secrets made available only to the big players with patent portfolios and nda agreements, how the hell are you supposed to write code for an undocumented architecture?

[Monkeh]

What's with ATX again? I don't see a problem 
If ATX didn't exist we would have all sorts of funny board sizes and many case sizes for the same form factor

... We can have a new standard, y'know.

[HardBoot]

What's with ATX again? I don't see a problem 
If ATX didn't exist we would have all sorts of funny board sizes and many case sizes for the same form factor

... We can have a new standard, y'know.

mATX, ITX, there's tons of standard form factors.

[Monkeh]

What's with ATX again? I don't see a problem 
If ATX didn't exist we would have all sorts of funny board sizes and many case sizes for the same form factor

... We can have a new standard, y'know.

mATX, ITX, there's tons of standard form factors.

.. They're all just tweaks of ATX..

[Simon]

Modern Software is made to use multicore.
Tell me one modern CAD that isn't faster with multicore (except that shithole DXDesigner)

It's that they need to be written in OpenCL

Solid edge ! We have it at work on 8 core machines and it only uses one core. Why don't you tell me which ones do ?

[T4P]

AutoCAD.

[AndyC_772]

It's more than just the CPUs. The entire platform needs to move on. ATX needs to die, expansion cards need a new format more suited to high power cards.

What's wrong with the form factor? Expansion cards have already moved on from ISA, to PCI, to AGP, to PCIe with as many lanes as your chipset can handle, so it's not as though the actual performance of the cards is being hobbled.

How would you change the form factor so as to deliver a major, worthwhile benefit?

[Monkeh]

It's more than just the CPUs. The entire platform needs to move on. ATX needs to die, expansion cards need a new format more suited to high power cards.

What's wrong with the form factor? Expansion cards have already moved on from ISA, to PCI, to AGP, to PCIe with as many lanes as your chipset can handle, so it's not as though the actual performance of the cards is being hobbled.

How would you change the form factor so as to deliver a major, worthwhile benefit?

I'd get the connectors off the back. Route them through the edge connector and out somewhere else. Then you can have nice, unobstructed airflow in a seperate compartment to the cooler components. No need for the card to have a fan, front and rear fans in the enclosure and blanking pieces to force airflow over installed cards. Get rid of the extra power cables, too. Put them on the board.

When you've got cards dissipating 250W+, the current design flat out fails.

[T4P]

Well first of all, look at the cables carrying the current, how thick do you think the traces will be?
The current thickest trace for PCI-E is
"PCI Express cards are allowed a maximum power consumption of 25W (×1: 10W for power-up). Low profile cards are limited to 10W (×16 to 25W). PCI Express Graphics 1.0 (PEG) cards may increase power (from slot) to 75W after configuration (3.3V/3A + 12V/5.5A).[9] PCI Express 2.1 increased the power output from an x16 slot to 150W so that some high-performance graphics cards can be run from the slot power alone.[10] Optional connectors add 75W (6-pin) or 150W (8-pin) power for up to 300W total."

1) It's a pain in the arse to push the cable onto the motherboard (Very recessed)
I would certainly keep the connectors there at the edge and the most efficient method with a vapor chamber is with a onboard fan ( I'll tell ya, doing what you mentioned will require a massive heatsink )




Look carefully, they will randomly place connectors all over

That last graphic card chews at least 400W

[Monkeh]

Well first of all, look at the cables carrying the current, how thick do you think the traces will be?

Not a big problem.

1) It's a pain in the arse to push the cable onto the motherboard (Very recessed)

What cable?!

( I'll tell ya, doing what you mentioned will require a massive heatsink )

We already have massive heatsinks. Massive heatsinks which are air-starved in multi-card setups.

Look carefully, they will randomly place connectors all over

Not if the standard tells them not to. ps. I've seen more than a few GPUs in my time, thank you.

That last graphic card chews at least 400W

Yes, and it runs hot as stink for it.

[T4P]

Well first of all, look at the cables carrying the current, how thick do you think the traces will be?

Not a big problem.

1) It's a pain in the arse to push the cable onto the motherboard (Very recessed)

What cable?!

The main ATX 24+4pin connectors are already maxed out. You want more on the motherboard? And heavenly thick traces?

( I'll tell ya, doing what you mentioned will require a massive heatsink )

We already have massive heatsinks. Massive heatsinks which are air-starved in multi-card setups.

Not quite air-starved. How about a more powerful fan? They easily fit. I've seen 120mm fans go into where we are used to be a full height slots on consumer markets

Look carefully, they will randomly place connectors all over

Not if the standard tells them not to. ps. I've seen more than a few GPUs in my time, thank you.

You mentioned edge-connectors but that proves NOT! Tell Nvidia they are doing it wrong then! Placing the connectors at the back ... royally screwing their customers

That last graphic card chews at least 400W

Yes, and it runs hot as stink for it.

You say that, it keeps at 80C doing furmark.
Hot as stink?

[Monkeh]

For the love of..

Would you PLEASE stop and LISTEN when I say that I'm not talking about anything even REMOTELY like an ATX system? It won't use that style of PSU. Or connector.

As for air starved, have you ever seen a system with more than two expansion cards in it? There is NO ROOM for sucking air in the side when you fill a system up.

Edge connectors: Connectors placed on the edges of a PCB. Like existing PCI-E connectors and those stupid SLI link connectors. We only need one connector: At the bottom. No need for the DVI/HDMI/DP outputs to be on the card itself: Put them elsewhere. Route them through the main connector on the bottom of the card.

No need for big, annoying power cables to the cards: Use proper, high current power connectors from board to board.

I am not describing a single-board single-plane arrangement like an ATX motherboard. But that's all you know and can think of.

And for the love of all that is unholy, STOP PUTTING GIGANTIC IMAGES INLINE

[T4P]

Carry on bitching

[Monkeh]

Carry on bitching

Thank you for perfect examples of the problem.

Now imagine if they didn't need fans in the back. Imagine if the DVI connectors weren't there, and it was just straight, unrestricted flow through the heatsinks. Get rid of the ugly, awkward power connectors on the top. Say hello to 20% more heatsink area with 50% less impedance.

Now imagine that instead of hanging there, pulling down on the sockets, those cards are actually sitting in that aspect. Except there's no motherboard to the side of them. The CPU is in a seperate compartment above, and the PSU and HDDs below. 120mm fans front and back, and a power and data bus running up one side of the case.

Still the same 'tower' format we all know and love. A hell of a lot less legacy design.

[T4P]

Carry on living in your fairyland
and it doesn't even matter at all when you've this many fans

[Monkeh]

Carry on living in your fairyland

The one where I have a mind of my own and don't see the need to be constrained by standards set in the 90s? I think I will!

and it doesn't even matter at all when you've this many fans

Yes, let's resolve design flaws with LOADS MORE FANS!!!!

Look at the amount of wasted space in that rig. Nice TJ07 case, shame they had so many alignment issues.