Nick Martin booted out as Altium CEO

[DrGeoff]

I disagree that it would take anything like that long - with the advanced software tools and graphics libraries etc. that are now available, there'd be far less work on the fiddly graphics and UI stuff than in the past, the major work would be designing a good architecture. A bit like PCB layout really - with good placement, the layout's easy. Whether it would be financially viable is a whole 'nother question of course.

I suspect the devil is in the detail.
Just look at the other lower end basic packages like DIPtrace and Eagle, they are examples of maybe a decade(?) of development to get to their current point.
Altium itself took a similar length of time to get what most would now consider "basic" EDA functionality.
AutoTrax EDA (not the Protel one, the other one) is a benchmark example of what one guy can do on his own over maybe a decade or so.
Sure, it might be easier starting from scratch today, but I suspect it's impossible to get anything decently usable from scratch in less than a couple of years with a small team of programmers, say 3-4.
Sure, you could have something to show in 6 months, but it wouldn't be usable to anyone.

And these guys are already experienced in writing this software, know the traps and pitfalls and how they would design it if they got to do it all over again. It's not unrealistic as a startup to not have positive cashflow for the first 2 years.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

The "rental" model is far worse than that

I think the rental model can suit heavy apps like Altium and also Autocad.
Your payment is more in synch with your use of the product. It may help save support costs because people are using fewer different versions.

it would take several years just to get the basics working from scratch.

I agree it would take quite a while to make a product out from scratch, but this would still be preferable to trying to fix some of the other design packages going around.

I would like someone to take the guts out of Paint.Net, some sort of plugin structure and all sorts of libraries and turn that into pcb design software. ie. Written in dotnet. It would be far less buggy than any design software I have used.

[IanB]

I suspect the devil is in the detail.
Just look at the other lower end basic packages like DIPtrace and Eagle, they are examples of maybe a decade(?) of development to get to their current point.
Altium itself took a similar length of time to get what most would now consider "basic" EDA functionality.
AutoTrax EDA (not the Protel one, the other one) is a benchmark example of what one guy can do on his own over maybe a decade or so.
Sure, it might be easier starting from scratch today, but I suspect it's impossible to get anything decently usable from scratch in less than a couple of years with a small team of programmers, say 3-4.
Sure, you could have something to show in 6 months, but it wouldn't be usable to anyone.

I'm more inclined to go with Mike on this. The issue with software is not writing the software, but knowing what to write. I couldn't write a PCB layout package because I know far too little about what it should do or how it should do it. But ask me to design software in a field I do know about, and it would be a different story.

It should take no longer to bring a new software product to market than it it takes to bring a new hardware product to market. If done right it should take less time, since with software you can release a limited feature edition to get customers interested and upgrade them for free as you add features (and pay for those upgrades by adding new customers). With hardware it is more a case of all or nothing as free hardware upgrades will tend to bankrupt you.

[EEVblog]

And these guys are already experienced in writing this software, know the traps and pitfalls and how they would design it if they got to do it all over again. It's not unrealistic as a startup to not have positive cashflow for the first 2 years.

That's not unreasonable.
But it would be a solid two years, not a year for example.

You also have to be careful with the old "this is how I'd do it if I started again" trap.
If can potentially make you so focused on "doing it right", that you forgot that you may have to swallow your pride and actually shipping something that works but is not "done right yet".
Sometimes "doing it right" takes so damn long, you go out of business before you can ship.
Or you make the classic mistake of having spent so long "doing it right", that you then panic when you finally realise you have to "ship or die", and by then it's too late because the stuff you should have had in place through good planing, is not there, and you ship crap in the ensuing panic. The result is of course death.

So it's not just a matter of knowing what to avoid and what not to avoid in code and system design etc, it's also planning the thing so you can have realistic deliverable objectives. Most developers are quite poor at this.

For a new EDA tool from scratch, there is quite a bit of competition out there at the low end, so you'd have to have something at least as comparable before people decide to give your tool a try. A tough gig.

If I had Nick's millions I'd simply buy an existing tool which can generate income from day one.

Dave.

[DrGeoff]

And these guys are already experienced in writing this software, know the traps and pitfalls and how they would design it if they got to do it all over again. It's not unrealistic as a startup to not have positive cashflow for the first 2 years.

That's not unreasonable.
But it would be a solid two years, not a year for example.

You also have to be careful with the old "this is how I'd do it if I started again" trap.
If can potentially make you so focused on "doing it right", that you forgot that you may have to swallow your pride and actually shipping something that works but is not "done right yet".
Sometimes "doing it right" takes so damn long, you go out of business before you can ship.
Or you make the classic mistake of having spent so long "doing it right", that you then panic when you finally realise you have to "ship or die", and by then it's too late because the stuff you should have had in place through good planing, is not there, and you ship crap in the ensuing panic. The result is of course death.

So it's not just a matter of knowing what to avoid and what not to avoid in code and system design etc, it's also planning the thing so you can have realistic deliverable objectives. Most developers are quite poor at this.

Agreed. That's why good management is required. I mean real management and leadership for a startup, not some dickhead wannabe with an MBA and a smart suit.

For a new EDA tool from scratch, there is quite a bit of competition out there at the low end, so you'd have to have something at least as comparable before people decide to give your tool a try. A tough gig.

Market analysis and business planning. Must be done before even investing a cent into the startup. If it can't fly, either modify the outcome and re-evaluate or can it.

If I had Nick's millions I'd simply buy an existing tool which can generate income from day one.

Or maybe not. Find another market with real returns for your investment. CAD software probably is not that market.

[DrGeoff]

And these guys are already experienced in writing this software, know the traps and pitfalls and how they would design it if they got to do it all over again. It's not unrealistic as a startup to not have positive cashflow for the first 2 years.

That's not unreasonable.
But it would be a solid two years, not a year for example.

You also have to be careful with the old "this is how I'd do it if I started again" trap.
If can potentially make you so focused on "doing it right", that you forgot that you may have to swallow your pride and actually shipping something that works but is not "done right yet".
Sometimes "doing it right" takes so damn long, you go out of business before you can ship.
Or you make the classic mistake of having spent so long "doing it right", that you then panic when you finally realise you have to "ship or die", and by then it's too late because the stuff you should have had in place through good planing, is not there, and you ship crap in the ensuing panic. The result is of course death.

Lenny managed to do this very successfully after getting booted from ALI. He already knew the market and players and built a much smaller, focussed company (AGT) with a smarter product.

[free_electron]

If I had Nick's millions I'd simply

go scuba diving the great barrier reef every day for the rest of my life and close every day with a barbie at sunset.

Sod electronics and sod software.  Do some fun stuff.

[EEVblog]

If I had Nick's millions I'd simply

go scuba diving the great barrier reef every day for the rest of my life and close every day with a barbie at sunset.
Sod electronics and sod software.  Do some fun stuff.

Sure, but this is Nick we are talking about. He could have done that decades ago!

Dave.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

When it comes down to it, electronics for many of us is fun.

Admittedly the shine does come off it a bit when you're doing it as a job too.

[free_electron]

sure electronics is fun. it's even more fun if you can design your circuit while laying in a hammock under a coconut tree, one leg in the warm ocean with cold drink in a long-stemmed glass with a little umbrella in it by your side. Some of my best idea's came to me while i was floating in my pool. Somehow i'm convinced the idea's would even have been greater if that pool was replaced by the abovementioned warm ocean , coconut tree/hammock combination.

even though i eat, breathe and live electronics i'd sign it all away to live the rest of my life worry free on some maldivian island...

[EEVblog]

even though i eat, breathe and live electronics i'd sign it all away to live the rest of my life worry free on some maldivian island...

Sounds good. But it would still have to have a floating glass bottom electronics lab and kick arse net connection.

Dave.

[free_electron]

Hmmm glass bottomed floating lab. Could we patent that ? you think there may be a market for that ?
it may be the next big thing ...

[EEVblog]

Hmmm glass bottomed floating lab. Could we patent that ? you think there may be a market for that ?
it may be the next big thing ...

To Kickstarter!
I need a US based resident to launder all the money, you in?

Dave.

[free_electron]

Sign me up. From now on volcano-based secret labs are for have-beens !

FG-BEL  : The Floating Glass-Bottomed Electronic Lab. We could make a T-shirt...

Do you have a FG-BEL ? ( pronounced: efgeebel )

[alm]

Finding all those MELF parts on the glass floor might be annoying, though. Is that a tropical fish or a diode?

[SeanB]

Don't drop splashes of hot solder...........

[EEVblog]

The boardroom soap opera continues:
http://asx.com.au/asxpdf/20121029/pdf/429rqkf19f9x07.pdf
http://asx.com.au/asxpdf/20121029/pdf/429rqm2jwtvcd4.pdf

Dave.

[olsenn]

WOW! It looks like shareholders are pissed at this years end financial report. Not only has Nick been fired, but his immediate replacement, Kayvan, and four other members of the board of directors are under a vote to be removed!

"The directors of the company RECOMMEND that you exercise your right to vote and that you VOTE AGAINST ALL RESOLUTIONS" -- Kayvan Oboudiyat

No shit; five of those resolutions are to can five board members (including Kayvan)... no wonder the board wants stakeholders to vote against all resolutions!

[free_electron]

 it looks like Martin disputes his dismissal from the company so the board submitted to remove Martin through shareholder voting.
As a counteraction Martin submitted, through Martin holdings (through which holds more than 5% of the shares) , a proposal to boot out the 5 others..

i see chairs flying ...

[mikeselectricstuff]

So Dave, how about hanging around outside the meeting with your camcorder...?

[DrGeoff]

Boardroom stoushes tend to get nasty on a political and personal level. Time to flush the entire board.
Think I might go down to this AGM this year and see what happens.

[JuKu]

If I would live there, I'd buy a share just to be able to attend!

[sacherjj]

If I would live there, I'd buy a share just to be able to attend!

You can buy 6 or 7 shares for the cost of a popcorn at the theater.  And you wouldn't even need to buy a ticket for the show. 

[EEVblog]

it looks like Martin disputes his dismissal from the company so the board submitted to remove Martin through shareholder voting.
As a counteraction Martin submitted, through Martin holdings (through which holds more than 5% of the shares) , a proposal to boot out the 5 others..

I wonder what happens if the shareholders vote to boot Martin out, AND the entire board?
Does the company instantly implode 

Dave.

[DrGeoff]

it looks like Martin disputes his dismissal from the company so the board submitted to remove Martin through shareholder voting.
As a counteraction Martin submitted, through Martin holdings (through which holds more than 5% of the shares) , a proposal to boot out the 5 others..

I wonder what happens if the shareholders vote to boot Martin out, AND the entire board?
Does the company instantly implode 

Dave.

That would be the ideal resolution. The board is now poisoned and having failed to deliver any shareholder value over the last decade you'd have to question why they are still there.
There should be an article in the constitution that covers this kind of event. Shareholders would need to vote in a new board. There are many professional directors whose occupation is to direct companies that would fill the positions.