Altium is killing off perpetual AD

[jc101]

I got 3 year subs offered at 50% discount. So it's £1060+VAT per year.


Several months back I decided to check how useful Altium is when used with Git outside of Altium. The software obviously prefers you use 365 but Using Github Desktop I was able to use version control no issue with all my projects. I can commit from within Altium okay but it moaned about logging in to Github to push the commits so I would just open Github desktop and push from there but normal commits worked just fine.


Using this along with 3rd party library utils like Calestial and Altium Library loader I also found I could manage my library just fine. I think Altium is more geared towards bigger companies and likely those companies see a lot of value in the library structure. For single users it's maybe just overkill. When 365 merged libraries it completely confused me where footprints were and where the actual library was. Suddenly there were all these different methods of managing libraries.


So that brings me to wondering what features I am getting for the subs if I am not too fussed about their cloud services. It has been relatively stable for me in use.

Nice discount!

I currently have all my projects in Git, hosted via a local GitTea server. That is backed up externally, but I can work offline completely if needed. I don't commit or push anything inside Altium; I just use a Git client to handle that. It's great for trying something out, then realising it's dead end and just backing out and starting again.  Firmware development is the same.

I also have my database library in Git, including the Access Database and all the footprint and symbol files. When I make changes, I push them back up to the Git server. This is more to ensure that if my main PC dies, I can quickly clone it all back down elsewhere.

The MCad integration would be very handy for me, as I often do the PCB and some of the enclosures or fit things into machined COTS enclosures.  That only works if the project is in A365.  The active BOM would be handy, also taking data from my accounts system.  The accounts package knows how many of what parts I have available, and if they are with me or my assembler.   Being able to pull that into an ActiveBOM would save a bit of time sourcing parts, I think that relies to some extent on A365 and ideally if my library were also in A365.  I've not yet delved into the rabbit hole of sorting that out.

These changes will hit the smallest users the hardest, those with the slimmest margins who plan carefully what to spend their hard earnt money on.  It's strange, only a few weeks ago at an Altium event the reps were very keen to expand the user base from the smallest to the largest.  These changes are going to mean a rethink on the reps at public facing side of Altium - I wonder if they knew what was heading their way?

[trevwhite]

This is what the quote states.

[jc101]

Looks much the same as mine was.

14-004-1-WC Altium Designer Commercial Subscription Renewal : Altium Designer Standard On-Demand Commercial Single Site SN-xxxxxxxx Standard From 2023-12-17 To 2024-12-16

I will be invoiced annually, so I don't have to pay the 3 years up front.  There was some waffle on the quote about needing to give them a credit card number, but they ignored that.  I raised a PO for the 3 years and they will just invoice when it's due each year.

Seems like a bargain to get you to 2027 given the changes.

[trevwhite]

I think it's a good deal but what intention do they have for the standard version? Will they introduce e everything in the pro subs and pretty much leave us for dead? They never even offered me the pro subscription.


 

[jc101]

If you ask for a Pro Subscription, they should give you a quote. After all, the salespeople will have slim pickings for the rest of the year!

I paid a one-off update to migrate my subscription from Standard to Pro for the remainder of the term. I was planning on embracing A365 a bit more, plus I use MultiBoard quite a bit. It was my year-end, and I took on a new project. I'd been to an Altium event and had a good look at some of the features, so it seemed a good plan at the time. Now I hear this news and wonder why I did it. 

Many features are available in Standard, but when you dig deeper, you find that when you try to do something, a box pops up saying you need Pro.

[trevwhite]

What was the pro upgrade cost?

[jc101]

It was prorated for the balance of the term as a lump sum, ~£1500 from memory.  This wasn't part of the renewal, so the renewal team discount flexibility didn't come into it.  I'd just ask and see what they offer; it can't hurt.

I could probably recover that cost with decent bi-directional Mcad integration over the next couple of years.  If it works as well as the demos did, anyway.

[trevwhite]

I was trying to find the price on the website. Every other time it’s all plastered over the front of the site.


I think they finish early on a Friday. My renewal is tomorrow so I really might have run out do time

[jc101]

They haven’t minded the odd day before specially if it’s a weekend

[trevwhite]

Okay thanks. They did ensure the quote they sent today runs out tomorrow. Lol

[nctnico]

I currently have all my projects in Git, hosted via a local GitTea server. That is backed up externally, but I can work offline completely if needed. I don't commit or push anything inside Altium; I just use a Git client to handle that. It's great for trying something out, then realising it's dead end and just backing out and starting again.  Firmware development is the same.

I also use an external Git client with/for designs and libraries made with Altium and Orcad. Besides having a backup and versioning, it also makes it easy to bring designs along as well. Just commit & push and fetch & pull and you are sure to have to exact same files on both computer systems.

[KaneTW]

I use A365 a little bit for libraries and stuff but this just means I'll move away from that completely.

This is incredibly stupid lol

[EEVblog]

Someone on Twitter got the tap on the shoulder:
https://x.com/ATaylorFPGA/status/1800102243380965657

[TrickyNekro]

I´ve considered saving up a bit for a license for personal use at home, but no, I pay for no subscription.

It´s a shame, especially with the new 3D features, like sliced view ( which ultimately is nothing new in a
 CAD sense, but I guess that´s how they roll ), it made it quite enjoyable working with enclosures.

KiCad it is then, free and probably have to bust my back to see how I´ll integrate my workflow with
FreeCad to get similar results. But from what I see, doable.

[Doctorandus_P]

KiCad it is then, free and probably have to bust my back to see how I´ll integrate my workflow with
FreeCad to get similar results. But from what I see, doable.

FreeCAD has the "KiCad Step Up" workbench to exchange data with KiCad. I have not used it seriously myself, but I have followed some walk troughs and it has quite nice capabilities. (For example, load a 3d STEP file of a box, extract a 2D plane into a sketch, apply an offset, and then export directly to KiCad as a PCB outline. And it works both ways. You can import a PCB (with 3D models) from KiCad into FreeCAD.)

And bot KiCad and FreeCAD are improving each year. Improvements in KiCad happen at a steeper rate though.
If you want to know more, then start a new topic.

[VK3DRB]

I just got an email from Altium:

Hi,
We have listened to your feedback and you can now purchase an Altium Designer Perpeptual license without a subscription.
Call me today and get an additional 35% discount off a perpetual Altium Designer license.
Looking forward to speaking with you soon.

So does that include Altium 365? I cannot image Altium giving anything away for free, but I have been getting a good discount for subscriptions over the past few years thanks to a good long term relationship I have Altium.

By the way, it is never a good idea to buy the latest Altium at year end, because that is when the next big release happens. Best time to buy is mid year because by then all the worse bugs would have (hopefully) been ironed out.

Some bugs are never really fixed, like updating a footprint with a different 3D model and the old 3D model lingers for a while, and there are plenty of bugs when using databases for components. I hate databases for components using Altium, but Orcad got it right - very easy to use. Altium Draftsman still has a few bugs, but it is a lot better that is used to be. Overall, Draftsman is an awesome time saver when impemented well.

Remember the old saying... "If it hasn't got bugs, it isn't Altium"

[jc101]

Access to A365 requires an active subscription, so unless that perpetual licence includes one year in the price, it is just that.  Any included subscription would also give software updates too.

[VK3DRB]

Currently, you can sell your Altium license and they will allow the license transfer it ONLY if it is under subscription. With the new perpetual license without subscription, can you transfer the license to someone else? I suspect not.

[ajawamnet]

The law firm Fenwick and West (now Fenwick) did the first shrink/clickwrap EULA for Jobs and Wozniak in 1975.  Their document

- https://www.fenwick.com/FenwickDocuments/Patent_Licensing.pdf

specifically states on page 9:

“Quiet Enjoyment”
Licensees, having paid for the right to use licensed technology, generally seek to ensure that
nothing interferes with the benefits they have received. For example, licensees are concerned
with their ability to obtain assistance from the licensor in fixing defects that are discovered in
the technology, to have the right to fix the defects themselves if the licensor is unable to do
so, to obtain periodic upgrades and other maintenance services from the licensor, to transfer
their rights if they sell their business and to continue enjoying the technology even if the
licensor becomes bankrupt.


From what I've seen, only the Microsoft EULA's discount “Quiet Enjoyment”

A licensor usually loses most of the rights to the license technology once they sell the license.  For instance, in a passive activity like a recording, a record label cannot prevent you from selling the original copies of a recording as part of your estate.  That fall under First Sale.

This is what Autodesk learned in the Vernor case.  This is why they now "rent" software - SaaS.

For shiny shoes guys that don't care and just want to build then sell off a business and hang out with Sports Illustrated models in their Maserati after cashing in big time, cool. They don't care. 

A contracting firm on a time limited contract - a body shop filling warm seats - again has no long term interest in accessing their IP generated with the tool.

But for smaller firms and companies that see access to their IP as a valuation of their company, then something needs to change - a legal precedent needs to happen to determine if theirs undue influence by these software companies, forcing  a construed partnership in an unconscionable contract agreed to under duress. 

That would start getting into anti trust laws. 
https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws
"These laws promote vigorous competition and protect consumers from anticompetitive mergers and business practices. The FTC's Bureau of Competition, working in tandem with the Bureau of Economics, enforces the antitrust laws for the benefit of consumers."

We need legal precedent to begin sorting out these issues. 

[jusaca]

This actually is the exact reason why Open Source is so great. No one can take away the software you have, you will always be able to open old projects.
While we still do use Altium and pay the subscription, our tiny company also gives 5% of the annual Altium cost as donation to the KiCad project.
Maybe this investment will pay off double and more the coming months... We will see for how long Altium is still interesting for us.

[voltsandjolts]

Currently, you can sell your Altium license and they will allow the license transfer it ONLY if it is under subscription. With the new perpetual license without subscription, can you transfer the license to someone else? I suspect not.

You always needed Altium's approval to transfer (sell) a license anyway, and given the trouble I had getting them to just transfer a license to a colleagues name, I wouldn't ever have expected a helpful response for a sale.

[ianm42]

Just joined to express my extreme displeasure with Altium.

I first used Protel 1 in 1991 in my startup company. We bought it instead on Ye Olde DOS based ORCAD which didn't work too well with Windows for Workgroups (3.0 and 3.1) as only supported DOS drives and had issues with "modern graphics cards". It was also cheaper than Orcad and obvious plus point.

This moved onto Protel 3 (with the annoying printer port dongle that obviously was no good when PC's started getting USB rather than parallel ports), I still have these somewhere including floppy disk installation media, including the printer port switch so we could switch the dongle between multiple machines.

Then move to Protel 98 and Protel 99 (and SE) under Windows 95 & Windows 2000. I still have 99 SE installed on my current Windows 10 machine (with the hacked DLL to allow it to open files correctly) just so I can quickly open old .DBB to quickly look at old designs.

Moved to DXP V17 (eventually) with local license server as online licensing stuff via 8Mb ADSL was a complete no go.

Finally running 3 seats of V24 as of today, with perpetual renewal in 5 days.... which is being offered at £7500 for another year if ordered before 1st July !!!!

Well subscription @ £330 per user per month, that's a goodbye from me and hello KiCad, hello Proteus, hello anything not on subscription. 

We design & make PCB's as part of our design business and don't run DXP everyday, only when a PCB is required in a project or an old design needs to be updated. Licensing DXP @ £330 for say one month to just update a PCB is a complete no go from a cost point of view.

So that's it is a sad goodbye, it feels like loosing a friend (OK still got perpetual license). I won't cry as I am a big boy.

[voltsandjolts]

Is it time to download the offline installers for the latest version our perpetual licenses allow? I'm losing trust here.

There used to be Amazon S3 download links that were predictable for the AD version name....need to look back at that.

[PlainName]

I downloaded the offline files for every version I had, and additionally created the standalone license file every time I resubscribed. And used the offline license file to install in a separate installation.

Not that I don't trust 'em but decades of falling foul of various snotty vendors and DRM schemes has taught me a few things 

Edit: Dunno about S3 links but if you've had an account, even if it's expired, you can log in and just download from the website.

[cadguy68]

Well, it was a good run. 

Started using Altium back in 2008.  Used the software across 5 employers. 
After about just as many years using OrCad, P-CAD & Mentor Graphics Board Architect/Station.
It was a love-hate relationship with Altium.  With all of them, actually.

I'm ready for the next chapter - KiCad ?

BTW - Rhino3D (McNeel & Associates) has a great business model for their tool, and their customers.  Since 1996.  No extortion, low cost upgrades, student pricing, network licensing, etc. etc.  Proof that it IS POSSIBLE for a software tool to exist from a company that doesn't constantly squeeze their customers for every last penny.  Oh, and customers get support, PERIOD.  No EXTRA charges.  No tiers crap.  Amazing.