Altium Circuit Studio??

[ehughes]

If ehughes was asking about version control of changes to the schematic/PCB, then it's already there, because the files are text and compatible with Your Favorite Source Code Control System. OK, diff-ing can be tricky depending on whether the file is entirely rewritten and things are moved around.

I meant that file formats should be version controlled.  The KiCad team needs to have some formal system for defining what data is in file.   This is directly tied to a stable release system.     There should be a well defined, documented source for each release of the format, schema, etc.       This is a standard software development practice to ensure there is sanity in how data is stored and that you can ensure forward compatibility.  Altium can actually go the other way.   I opened a board made in AD14 with summer'09!

 Simply putting things in an XML format does not mean it is controlled / versioned.


About 9 months ago I posted an anecdote how a customer insisted on me doing a design review using the KiCad files.       The process of getting a binary that could open his files was ridiculous.     They indirectly paid a lot of money for KiCad.

[c4757p]

So why are the complaints so loud, then?  Curiosity does not arouse complaint, as curiosity does not have expectations.

Opinions. I gather you know what those are.

[Rigby]

So why are the complaints so loud, then?  Curiosity does not arouse complaint, as curiosity does not have expectations.

Opinions. I gather you know what those are.

I'd appreciate communicating without being patronized, thank you very much.

If the opinions were just opinions, that would be fine, but they're not.  They're angry "this is fucking shitty" type comments, followed quickly by "fuck this, back to Altium Designer," or something along those lines.  If that doesn't strongly imply unmet expectations, then I don't know what does.

By the way, I don't care if you have expectations, JUST SAY THAT!  Say that "oh I expected this, and it isn't here," or whatever.  Don't disguise that bullshit as opinion.

[free_electron]

my two cents is this :

people are interested in circuitstudio because all they need is schematic/ pcb. no interest in fpga , the tasking tools , the simulator or the vault or some advanced things like flex , xnets and other things

circuitstudio is perfect for that.

That is also what altium sees. they need a 'cheaper version' of their flagship product.

So in a sense some of the AD users will drop AD and switch to CS because it is cheaper and fits their need. interacting with AD users is painless as AD reads CS ( i actually believe it is bidirectional. the format may even be identical , only the Circuitmaker will be cloud. CS is local storage )

anyway. the relation CS <> AD is trnasparent when it comes to data exchange

[corax]

Why are you people that already have AD trying this out?  Do you expect a BETTER tool or something?

OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE DISAPPOINTED...  They're not going to give away everything in AD in CircuitStudio, so there ARE going to be things missing... duh.

In my case, I use AD at my main job- my employer bought it.
But I do small side jobs in my spare time, and I shouldn't be using my employer's tools for that.  I was interested in CS as a possible tool for those jobs.
I've tried Eagle many times and just get frustrated with it; I'm too used to AD, but I don't do nearly enough side work to justify purchase of an AD licence for myself.


 

[Rigby]

OK that makes perfect sense.

Eagle and AD are too different, as you indicated, to switch between them daily.  I can't get AD at work, so I have Eagle, and I'm trying to learn AD at home, and switching mindsets is a proper pain.

[c4757p]

So why are the complaints so loud, then?  Curiosity does not arouse complaint, as curiosity does not have expectations.

Opinions. I gather you know what those are.

I'd appreciate communicating without being patronized, thank you very much.

I'm not patronizing you, I'm calling you opinionated. Don't worry, so am I.

[DerekG]

In my case, I use AD at my main job- my employer bought it.
But I do small side jobs in my spare time, and I shouldn't be using my employer's tools for that.  I was interested in CS as a possible tool for those jobs.
I've tried Eagle many times and just get frustrated with it; I'm too used to AD, but I don't do nearly enough side work to justify purchase of an AD licence for myself.

Two good alternatives to consider:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/altium-designer-pricing/msg599972/#msg599972

people are interested in circuitstudio because all they need is schematic/ pcb. no interest in fpga , the tasking tools , the simulator or the vault or some advanced things like flex , xnets and other things

circuitstudio is perfect for that.

That is also what altium sees. they need a 'cheaper version' of their flagship product.

Isn't it funny how Altium keep going round in circles. They sold their Traxmaker software in the mid 1990's to a company in the USA who renamed it Circuit Maker. They integrated this with their own schematic capture software & worked hard at making it quite a good low to medium end package.

Altium then bought Circuit Maker out in the late 1990's & sold it side by side with AD for several years. Then they culled it. Then Altium significantly reduced the price of AD to pull in more cost sensitive users. Then Altium put the price of AD up.

Then Altium announce Circuit Studio ................ which is performing much the same task & is being directed at the same market as their original Circuit Maker software aka ~ year 2000.

Now, 15 years later, Altium are back at first base.

A bit like moving their office from Australia to the USA, then back to Australia, then to China & now back to the USA.

I'm surprised they are still in business. At the top, they are definitely brain dead.

Oh, I forgot to mention Altium buying out PCAD in the early 2000's. They ran with that software until 2006 when they culled it. For those of us who used PCAD, it was definitely a much better product in the year 2000 than Altium/Protel ever was.

Altium culled the wrong software!

With Nick Martin ejected from the Altium Board, things should be improving. Let's see what else Altium can stuff up over the next couple of years.

[ludzinc]

Why are you people that already have AD trying this out?  Do you expect a BETTER tool or something?

OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE DISAPPOINTED...  They're not going to give away everything in AD in CircuitStudio, so there ARE going to be things missing... duh.

I wanted to compare CS to AD, so see:

1.  How different the work flows are so I can use AD at work CS (or rather CM!) at home
2.  See if I can save money buying CS licences for Graduates to use, and having less AD licences for the draftsmen
3.  See if my existing home projects which I want to open source, can be edited in CS.  The *assumption* is the CM and CS will both do things the same way... and I may be very wrong there.

Most of my comments were observations of the differences between CS and AD, not bitches.  BUT the lack of keyboard shortcuts for the high activity actions just makes for bad software overall.

[DerekG]

BUT the lack of keyboard shortcuts for the high activity actions just makes for bad software overall.

I believe there are a few keyboards where you can store a pile of key sequences to a single key. There are also a few software programs that will allocate a key sequence to a particular key. Some of these software programs also "memorises" the code that sits behind icons & allows you to allocate that code (or an entire code sequence) to a specific key on your keyboard.

Has anyone used any of the above methods with AD or with other software?

[ludzinc]

AD let's you edit the shortcuts that are there. For example '*' on my laptop needs me to push Fn first.

So I changed it to sonething else that works for me.

CS doesn't appear to let you edit shortcuts, and what I think is worse is that 'P' for Pkace activates a ribbon tab.

A macro that could be bound to a key that hits a button on the ribbon would be very handy!

[Rigby]

If the ribbon in CS works like it does in office, pressing and releasing the ALT key will show you the key combos for the ribbon.

[daedalus]

Has anyone figured out how to save a step model of a board out of CircuitStudio?

[Batang]

Upgrade to Altium Designer.

[daedalus]

Upgrade to Altium Designer.

yeah, thanks for that, real helpful.

On another note, anyone having issues accessing vault with the credentials included in the trial? mine stopped working yesterday.

[VEGETA]

I don't know about the price of this thing yet. What is the cheapest license price of it?

BTW, what happened to CicuitMaker? so much time without news about it.

[DerekG]

I don't know about the price of this thing yet. What is the cheapest license price of it?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/altium-circuit-studio/msg598018/#msg598018

BTW, what happened to CicuitMaker? so much time without news about it.

My opinion is that is is pretty much dead now that Altium have done this deal with Farnell. However, I could be wrong of course.

[Spikee]

My 2 cents:

Altium / Element 14 states:
"Professional Tools for Professionals
Whether you design PCBs frequently or not, you need pro-grade tools you can count on, without the steep learning curve or having to re-learn how to use them each time there's a new project. CircuitStudio has powerful and professional capabilities for schematic capture, PCB layout and routing, and 3D viewing and editing. So go ahead, tell it like it is and call yourself a PCB design professional."

Why is there then:
-no compatibility between AD and CS pcb files
-no ability to export 3d file of board (needed by enclosure designer)

With those two things it would be an instant success. Without those two your market has shrinked to a very small size of people who earn money by making ciruit boards and need a professional tool but they do not need backwards compatibility and they do not need to design enclosures for their products (or they do this by manually making a 3d file in some kind of cad program).

-1 Customer here

--
AD is still to expensive for most and CS does not fill that gap by the limitations it has.
Element 14 should not have accepted that compromise from Altium.

[DerekG]

Why is there then:
-no compatibility between AD and CS pcb files

I understand the next full release of AD will open Circuit Studio files. From the information I currently have to hand, I do not believe that there will be a backward conversion from AD to Circuit Studio though.

Element 14 should not have accepted that compromise from Altium.

Farnell actually approached Altium when they heard CircuitMaker was to be released. In the deal, Altium agreed to supply a more powerful product exclusively to Farnell than their existing EAGLE offering.

[Spikee]

...

I understand the next full release of AD will open Circuit Studio files. From the information I currently have to hand, I do not believe that there will be a backward conversion from AD to Circuit Studio though.

What will happen is:
Legit CS license , trial/pirated AD15 and use it just for converting the files and outputting your 3D step of the board.

Farnell actually approached Altium when they heard CircuitMaker was to be released. In the deal, Altium agreed to supply a more powerful product exclusively to Farnell than their existing EAGLE offering.

Still this limitation makes  CS standalone pretty much useless for contractors and the like who need to provide AD compatible files to the client.

[daedalus]

Just a warning for anyone else considering CS. The 1 year subscription option farnell have been offering cannot be used without first having bought a standalone copy. So that makes the minimum spend $3000 to get CS. Now that has been cleared up I'm going to stop wasting my time on it, shame really.

[luky315]

I tried it out (14 days trial):
First I changed the horrible "50 shades of blue" PCB color scheme to a more traditional "red to blue".
The most annoying thing is that they changed / disabled the shortcuts. No "p-p" to add a new part, you now need multiple clicks to start routing etc.... (Altium Designer users should know what i mean...)
And I am missing the IPC compliant Footprint wizard.
But I think that Circuit Studio is great for its price (~1/3 of the "full" Version).

[RF-Tech]

Has the price really been reduced to $495.00???

http://www.newark.com/altium/11-004-15-1-e/circuitstudio-subscription/dp/29Y9076

-S

[RF-Tech]

Nope - should have known better.

[BloodyCactus]

oh so its 3k to buy into, then 500 per year 'renewal' ? ouch