Free Energy Scams and Fakes

[daqq]

I'd kill a box full of kittens for a SPICE program that looked like that. It's like a cross between a simulator, The Simpsons, Super Mario, & Nyan cat ...

Proteus has a nice UI and is quite friendly. Looks good as well, though it lacks said clouds! And you don't have to kill a box full of kittens, unless they changed the EULA considerably. If your looking for clouds and rainbows rather than functionality, you can combine whatever simulator you are running now it with some illegal herbage.

[grumpydoc]

My workshop aircon unit uses 1.6kW of electricity to produce 5.5kW of heat

I think the origin of this lies in the fact that airconds did  achieve some substantial leaps in efficiency some years back,& they could get more hot or cold air out with less power in.

From that  the new system could be  labelled as "equivalent to an older 5.5kW unit",which although it is right,is silly,as no one is selling the old types anymore.

No, the origin is a slightly disingenuous description.

The aircon (edit: I assume that it is, in fact, a heat pump which can be used to cool in summer or warm in winter) in question does not produce 5.5kW of heat from 1.6kW of electricity - it moves 5.5kW of heat from elsewhere using 1.6kW of electricity. Elsewhere can be the atmosphere outside (dry air at 0^oC has a specific heat of approx 1kJ per kg per ^oC) or the ground or water depending on the installation.

The physics in this case is sound but it isn't free energy - it's (once again) thermal energy from elsewhere.

[cybermaus]

The increased capacity thing makes sense, due to the desulphation (did I spell that right?) caused by the high voltage pulses.

Well, only if the battery had decreased performance to begin with. You can't desulphate  (however it is spelled) a battery that is working as it is supposed to.

... a "different form" of potential that can't be detected using conventional equipment....

That is such well-known tell-tale of of pseudo-science that professional con man know not to use it anymore. So it probably proves that your friend honestly believes this junk.

[G7PSK]

All this type of stuff is what Richard Feynman called "Cargo cult science" They create their arguments and reasoning's as to what they expect then sit back to await the results and when they are not forthcoming it must be due to not being able to detect it or see it for whatever reason, such as you don't believe therefore you can't see it or don't get it. The great man explained it better but i will have to look it up again in order to quote directly. Personally I have given up trying to convince some people as one can only    for so long.

[dfmischler]

Cargo Cult Science by Richard P. Feynman.  Worth reading.

[skipjackrc4]

The increased capacity thing makes sense, due to the desulphation (did I spell that right?) caused by the high voltage pulses.

Well, only if the battery had decreased performance to begin with. You can't desulphate  (however it is spelled) a battery that is working as it is supposed to.

Since there are supposed to be several car batteries involved (you need to collect as much of the "free energy" as you can, right?), he will be using old ones.  Thus, I fully expect there to be a noticeable increase in capacity. 

[TerraHertz]

Fresh thread over in the Buy/Sell section:
 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/vortex-coil-formers-for-sale/

I'm sure there's some free-energy comedy potential with this seller, but it will take a little thought to get the best value.

If you're wondering what the advert is for, google vortex coils free energy.
Even on the first result page you'll find gems like:
"Vortex-Based Mathematics (VBM) is different because it is a dynamic math that ..."
"Making a coil that produces unlimited free energy. A number grid that shows ... The zero is always in the center in the form of the vortex hole. "
"The Unification Coil utilizes Vortex Based Mathematics, Sacred Geometry, and ...."

I don't suppose the mods would consider NOT locking that thread, while we have some Q & A 4chan-style fun with the seller? (Assuming he'll answer questions.)


Edit: Looking through that page of .... stuff, there's this:
 
  1Stop Energies: Vortex Coil Lighting Inverter

What's shocking, is that this guy could be 'one of us'. He has a nice electronics workbench, with 8 multimeters stacked on the shelf above.  (at 1:23)
Damn, a nice workbench AND a pretty girlfriend:
 

Hey, is that the same coil former? Related source?

Edit 2: Oops, sorry, make that wife not girlfriend, from reading the 'About' section on their site. Hmm, some more 'vortex based mathematics' references. Heh, and 'natural pathways' too! Not to mention a web page that prevents CTRL-C copy of its text content, always a great sign.
I figured they were in the USA, the moment she said 'sodder' for solder.

[FrankBuss]

Fresh thread over in the Buy/Sell section:
 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/vortex-coil-formers-for-sale/

I'm sure there's some free-energy comedy potential with this seller, but it will take a little thought to get the best value.

Of course, with vortex coils you can build overunity devices easily



I wonder why he has disabled the Youtube comments, I have some questions, like why doesn't he feed the output to the input to prove it.

Looks like he is using this quality multimeter to measure the 864 Hz output: http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/ProductManuals/2200813_PM_EN.pdf : "600 V RMS Maximum at 50/60Hz"

[grumpydoc]

I have some questions, like why doesn't he feed the output to the input to prove it.

I wonder......?

Or indeed why any of the free energy pushers have never managed to demonstrate one of their devices producing enough energy to run, say, a small house off-grid.

I mean, if they actually worked they'd fly off the shelves. Given that a solar installation has an ROI of about 10 years in most cases they could easily justify 10x your annual electricity bill for installing one.

I don't buy "I need backing" - surely there are enough of these loons that a few could band together to produce a prototype with no problem.

[G7PSK]

What is that coil supposed to do, I got the impression from the way it's wound and then connected that one field counteracts the other, ie. its self neutralising, all you have is 50 foot of wire electrically. Did any one else get the same idea from the second film.

[cybermaus]

Vortex Technologies: POE Coil / How It's Made

At 5:40 : connect to any wire on the other end.
Small improvement on the process: except the same wire. Do not connect a wire to its own end. Otherwise you could end up having a few isolated loops in your coil, which would make it less effective.

(Not sure in what it would be less effective, after all she is just connecting a power supply through it to the LED panel. She is not even making a claim extra energy is generated.)

[grumpydoc]

Vortex Technologies: POE Coil / How It's Made

POE = Pile of Excrement?

[TerraHertz]

Usually with 'vortex coil' rubbish, the prose is so vague & new-age there's no chance of figuring out what they are actually doing, never mind what they claim is happening.
But with that 'Vortex Technologies: POE Coil / How It's Made' video above, it's tantalizingly almost clear enough to work out an equivalent circuit.

But then it all falls down at the end, when what she's connecting up doesn't seem to correspond with that not-quite 'circuit diagram'  she keeps pointing at.

Dammit, am I going to have to make one of these things, to figure it out? I'd rather not.

Is anyone clear on what's being done there?

What I can get:
- The winding is multi-stranded.

- The first layer of winding is just wound around a toroidal volume, same as a standard coil around a ferrite toroid, except that the windings are skewed to an angle so they interleave rather than being laid turn by turn next to each other.

- The second layer of winding reverses the direction of lay on the toroid. Also because of the skew, the wires lay at about 90 degrees to the wires of the first layer. But flux-wise, it's effectively counter-winding on the toroid. By the same number of turns, and still interleaving.

- Then the two multi-stranded winding ends are separated and connected into two groups, forming two separate coils within the same wire bundle.

But then it gets too vague. I can't see in what arrangement she connects them to the sig gen, or what the 'output' is from.
Also no actual measurements of current, voltage, freq, power in, power out, etc. Unsurprisingly.

OK, I admit it, I watched this because it's nice to see a pretty girl winding wire and using a soldering iron.
Too bad she's never heard of heatshrink tubing, apparently. Or self-fluxing enameled wire. Or tag-strips.

Holy crap! Check out the prices they want for these magical vortex coils prewound. Several hundred dollars each.

Now there's an interesting question. If you had an opportunity to rip off a lot of gullible fools, easily, and make lots of money doing so, would you?
I was going to say I wouldn't, but then I remembered I used to write software for illegal gaming establishment poker machines back in the 1980s, and that was sooooo rigged. So I did. And I wasn't even getting the profits. Sh*t.

[cybermaus]

Multi-stranded? Thats not what I saw. The winding is single stranded. Maybe two stranded at best.

The multi-strand is just a production method. She then goes ahead and connects the strands so they form one continues wire by soldering their ends together. (assuming she does not accidentally solders a strand to itself, but there's only a small chance of that)

There are two of these "multi-strand-converted-into-single-wire" things. And while she does wire them in opposite direction, it is not entirely clear how she connects them. Current thus could still flow in one single direction, making it essentially one single loop, creating a stable single magnetic field in the toriod center despite the slanted angles.

Or two opposing loops, making the current canceling each other out in classic thinking, but maybe creating weird oscillations and escaping fields through the diamond holes in the windings. If anything weird and 'otherworldly' would happen, I would guess it would be in this configuration.

If you really think something may be happening, do build it and let us know. And don't forget to buy your wire and toroid template with them, so you are helping them becoming rich improving the world.

[lewis]

Damn, a nice workbench AND a pretty girlfriend:

Fit bird using a dremel. Phwooooaaaar! I'm all astir.

[TerraHertz]

Multi-stranded? Thats not what I saw. The winding is single stranded. Maybe two stranded at best.

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant it's originally wound as a multi-strand. I know she then wires it up as two multi-turn windings.

The multi-strand is just a production method. She then goes ahead and connects the strands so they form one continues wire by soldering their ends together. (assuming she does not accidentally solders a strand to itself, but there's only a small chance of that)

Seems her multimeter checking eliminates chances of that.

There are two of these "multi-strand-converted-into-single-wire" things. And while she does wire them in opposite direction, it is not entirely clear how she connects them. Current thus could still flow in one single direction, making it essentially one single loop, creating a stable single magnetic field in the toriod center despite the slanted angles.

Not quite, as the entire multi-strand reverses turn direction half way through winding. So even if the two groups are wired in series, it STILL cancels. But why make two groups, if they are then wired in series? So I think they are connected oppositely as well. So it... sort of doubly cancels. Does not make it 'uncancel'.

Or two opposing loops, making the current canceling each other out in classic thinking, but maybe creating weird oscillations and escaping fields through the diamond holes in the windings. If anything weird and 'otherworldly' would happen, I would guess it would be in this configuration.

Only at very high frequencies, I'd have thought? But from the video it's not even clear if the energization is DC or AC.

If it was a simply wound coil, reversing half way through, and also with two bifilar windings (one reversed) it's obviously going to produce zero magnetic field. It's the twist and 90 degrees between winding layers that exceeds my mental-model ability. I suppose the entire scam depends on exactly that, with most people.

If you really think something may be happening, do build it and let us know.

No, I don't think anything odd is going to happen. But I'm the kind of person who'd like to actually check on that, since I'm having trouble visualizing it. It's that trouble that makes it interesting. Would like to have one, put AC through it, and probe the space inside and between the windings with a small pickup loop coil to help visualize what the B field (if any) is actually doing.

And don't forget to buy your wire and toroid template with them, so you are helping them becoming rich improving the world.

I'm having no difficulty visualizing the chances of me giving them any money. Zero.
But it's times like this I wish I did have a CNC router, or a 3D printer. To make a bunch of those former disks. Already have rolls of suitable wire.
Though, it's a lot of nice enameled wire to waste on a stupid idea.

[IanB]

Though, it's a lot of nice enameled wire to waste on a stupid idea.

That big reel of wire she is using in the video must cost a bomb. It's quite heavy gauge too.

[TerraHertz]

Here's a real classic! It's got everything - a catchy name, a link to 'physicists are baffled' bit of mainstream research, serious looking guys waving hands around over a bit of CGI mumbo-jumbo,  funny looking coils, mention of Nikola Tesla, a trendy young guy giving a 'send us money' video, and a basic idea that's easy to say and sound like some kind of expert (even if so vague it's meaningless), and an 'opportunity' to invest in the 'new energy technology'.

All torque, torque, torque and no working demo device powering a home. Why does this sound familiar?

https://www.thenewenergyindustry.com/magrav-technology-cd-version-01/
https://www.thenewenergyindustry.com/learning-network/   video

As energy scams go, I'd give them 8/10 for polish. But I'm disappointed there's no teasers online for their revolutionary patents. (I hope you can see the invisible single quotes when I write that.) No free teasers makes them lose points under my scam-grading scale.

[FrankBuss]

So he is just selling an overpriced coin, and no facts at all about the invention? I would rather buy a Krügerrand for the next financial crisis.

[Kjelt]

This one could actually work 

[Chet]

Lately, I have been seeing quite a few free energy scams or claims with some really crazy ass circuits and contraptions which claim to provide free or perpetual energy. What is up with these idiots? Are people buying into this and sending these people money? Or are they delusional and really believe this is possible. If you have any good stories of crack pot ideas or ridiculous looking circuits please post them. This is getting quite humorous to me!

I am not an idiot...