Author Topic: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?  (Read 67856 times)

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Offline eyiz

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #175 on: June 27, 2017, 01:32:29 pm »
We know the components are global...that's not a surprise or anything new.

Except, that word "global"...isn't quite correct. No parts are made in Africa, nor Australia, nor Europe, nor South America, and I'm sure none are made in Canada, maybe Mexico makes somethings, I'm not sure, Japan is too expensive to make parts today, no parts are made in any of the Caribbean Islands, and Russia doesn't make anything either, so as we explore this "global" idea, we discover, in the end, that word "global" probably means just "China." Fluke may as well have written "Made in the US of Chinese Parts". Maybe South Korea makes some capacitors. I hardly think India makes any parts. Maybe Indonesia or Malaysia assembled the pcb from the Chinese parts, and the US put the pcb into the case to finish the final product inside the U.S.of.A.

 
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #176 on: June 27, 2017, 04:16:51 pm »
I guess that the people that work at electronics factories in USA and Europe are just sitting around doing nothing, then?
 

Offline PA0PBZ

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #177 on: June 27, 2017, 05:53:59 pm »
Value of the leading 15 integrated circuits and electronic components exporters worldwide in 2014, by country (in billion U.S. dollars)



https://www.statista.com/statistics/236845/value-of-the-leading-global-electronic-components-exporters-by-country/
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #178 on: June 27, 2017, 06:37:37 pm »
Value of the leading 15 integrated circuits and electronic components exporters worldwide in 2014, by country (in billion U.S. dollars)

Does that tell you where stuff is manufactured?

eg. TI is a US company that makes a lot of chips but where are TI chips made?

 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #179 on: June 27, 2017, 10:52:29 pm »
Value of the leading 15 integrated circuits and electronic components exporters worldwide in 2014, by country (in billion U.S. dollars)

Does that tell you where stuff is manufactured?

eg. TI is a US company that makes a lot of chips but where are TI chips made?
There are lots of steps and process technologies with varying degrees of complexity and, sometimes, legislation that prevents them to be exported (ITAR, for example). Therefore some of these companies manufacture the more advanced devices in non-restricted countries (US, Puerto Rico, Germany, France, etc) and ship the passivated/finished wafers to Malaysia, Taiwan, etc for packaging, marking, etc.

With this in mind, I don't know exactly how the numbers on the spreadsheet are obtained, but I am pretty sure it is after the product is finished (as the part marking contains the COO).

Therefore your product "assembled in USA with parts from other countries" may be more diverse than what the eyes can see.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 10:55:01 pm by rsjsouza »
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Offline crazyguy

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #180 on: June 28, 2017, 03:22:57 am »
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236845/value-of-the-leading-global-electronic-components-exporters-by-country/

Among them, only Taiwan, Japan and Korea actually make a lot of chips (I mean dice), China and Singapore make some, but most of the jobs are packaging, and HK and the rest of Asian countries do mostly packaging and make almost no dice.
So that's only the political figure of country of exporting, doesn't really mean country of actually making of the chip.

Hong Kong is a financial center. There is no such electronic industry or factories to packaging chips. Hong Kong is just doing the import and export trading electronic components business only.
 

Offline WhichEnt2

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #181 on: June 28, 2017, 01:20:05 pm »
Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?
Short pieces, high value, small period, huge amount, long delay.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #182 on: June 28, 2017, 01:23:12 pm »
Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?

Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
 

Offline WhichEnt2

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #183 on: June 28, 2017, 01:34:12 pm »
Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?

Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.

I can, but I'm not sure when I'll get there again.
Short pieces, high value, small period, huge amount, long delay.
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #184 on: June 28, 2017, 02:28:49 pm »
Something is off about that font as well. doesn't look genuine tbh.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #185 on: June 28, 2017, 02:32:27 pm »
FYI, Fluke isn't the only one that makes multimeters in the USA
https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/discontinued-products/electricians-hvac-trms-multimeter
https://www.kleintools.com/content/american-manufacturing

UPDATE: I just notice that they are both discontinued products?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #186 on: June 28, 2017, 02:44:30 pm »
Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?

Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
It won't unless it's been sitting in the window for years. They stopped writing Made in USA on the meter at minimum in early 2015, probably earlier. The yellow holster does say it, though.

That said, what good is this question? The boxes still say made in USA. The website says made in USA. The email from customer service says made in USA. What exactly do you expect to learn??!??
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 02:47:21 pm by tooki »
 

Offline WhichEnt2

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #187 on: June 28, 2017, 02:53:06 pm »
Something is off about that font as well. doesn't look genuine tbh.
It looks like they use the font from terminals which on the right DMM here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87v-87-5-87-v-gsm-interference-fluke-says-firmware-flash-fixes-it/?action=dlattach;attach=67015;image
Short pieces, high value, small period, huge amount, long delay.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #188 on: June 28, 2017, 02:53:54 pm »
FYI, Fluke isn't the only one that makes multimeters in the USA
https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/discontinued-products/electricians-hvac-trms-multimeter
https://www.kleintools.com/content/american-manufacturing

UPDATE: I just notice that they are both discontinued products?
Reading the text on the second link shows how people here in the US have been concerned with jobs and manufacturing for quite some time.
For Klein, it is somewhat easier for them to get a lot of manufacturing in the US, given they sell a wide variety of gear and not only electronic equipment.

The MM6000 shows as discontinued on the link, but not on their catalog. Funny.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #189 on: June 28, 2017, 02:55:30 pm »
Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
That said, what good is this question? The boxes still say made in USA. The website says made in USA. The email from customer service says made in USA. What exactly do you expect to learn??!??

I'm just hoping there's a meter in the world that says "Made in USA" on the back and has wonky input jacks.  >:D

 

Offline BMack

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #190 on: June 29, 2017, 06:02:22 am »
Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?

Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
It won't unless it's been sitting in the window for years. They stopped writing Made in USA on the meter at minimum in early 2015, probably earlier. The yellow holster does say it, though.

That said, what good is this question? The boxes still say made in USA. The website says made in USA. The email from customer service says made in USA. What exactly do you expect to learn??!??

Seriously, some people on this forum will say and do anything to try to discredit Fluke's reliability. Anti-Fluke trolls gotta troll I guess.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 06:31:33 am by BMack »
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #191 on: June 29, 2017, 08:03:17 pm »
Yup, it's absolutely pathetic.
 

Offline eyiz

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #192 on: June 30, 2017, 03:20:39 am »
Yup, it's absolutely pathetic.

My FLuke 289, bought back in 2012, has the following marking on the back:

FLUKE CORPORATION
      MADE IN USA
      OF U.S. AND NON U.S. PARTS
      www.fluke.com

But, my Fluke 87-V, bought this year in 2017, has no mention of "Made in USA"
on the back of the meter itself. Hmmm...why doesn't Fluke mark all their meters
the same way?

 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #193 on: June 30, 2017, 07:19:31 am »
But, my Fluke 87-V, bought this year in 2017, has no mention of "Made in USA"
on the back of the meter itself. Hmmm...why doesn't Fluke mark all their meters
the same way?

Xenophobia.

 

Offline eyiz

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #194 on: June 30, 2017, 03:08:16 pm »
But, my Fluke 87-V, bought this year in 2017, has no mention of "Made in USA"
on the back of the meter itself. Hmmm...why doesn't Fluke mark all their meters
the same way?

Xenophobia.

But, we love to buy things that say "Made In Japan", even when we're in the west.

 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #195 on: July 03, 2017, 09:43:36 pm »
It's not that China can't make good products - it can, as companies like Apple demonstrate. But whereas made in China says absolutely nothing about quality, since they span the whole range from top quality to absolute garbage, made in Japan, USA, Germany, Switzerland, etc tells you that the chances of it being high quality are quite high, without going so far as to call it a guarantee, simply because in those countries it's not with it to manufacture junk.
 

Offline eyiz

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #196 on: July 05, 2017, 04:31:22 am »
It's not that China can't make good products - it can, as companies like Apple demonstrate.

Yes, I have an IBM Thinkpad, made by Lenovo in China, top quality computer.

Quote
simply because in those countries it's not with it to manufacture junk.

Japan manufactures junk too. BUT...sometime ago the Government got involved and prohibited the export of junk to the rest of the world. So, if a Japanese company wants to export something, they need permission. Only the best quality products are exported. The junk is only allowed to be sold locally. Typically, new "Made in Japan" products are "tested" in the local market first, for some time before being allowed to export.

China also has something like this, but it doesn't work there. When you buy things from China, if you follow the "tracking" in detail, you'll see that all products pass through "export control" centers. But all they seem to do is "delay" the exports. One Chinese exporter said to me that "export control" does turn back some items, but I have never seen this in my dealings, all the junk has come through and delivered to my doorstep. Considering that Chinese sellers don't include "batteries" in their products, it may be that the "export control" centers look for specific things like batteries and prevent the export only certain things, which has nothing to do with quality. Apart from these few things, "export control" returns to sender, the Chinese merchants can export just about anything they want.

 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #197 on: July 05, 2017, 10:07:41 pm »
It's not that China can't make good products - it can, as companies like Apple demonstrate. But whereas made in China says absolutely nothing about quality, since they span the whole range from top quality to absolute garbage, made in Japan, USA, Germany, Switzerland, etc tells you that the chances of it being high quality are quite high, without going so far as to call it a guarantee, simply because in those countries it's not with it to manufacture junk.

Just buy more expensive ones. Don't expect made in China can bring down material cost. The money you can save is the labor cost (which is not much lower than Malaysia or similar Asian countries) and design cost (but again, most people making clones don't deliver good quality).

Which brings to the conclusion:
1. Buy only mature technology (that the Chinese clone is so mature that it can easily reach the original technology's level) made by a bigger company (with reputation and other virtual equity that they don't want to throw down the drain).
2. Buy made in China by a big international company (Fluke, Apple, etc.).
3. Buy those Chinese designs that are sponsored by government (such as telecom gears and laser gears -- Chinese government pays for quite a portion of R&D of domestic high tech, so you end up paying less with good quality).

Don't expect your $2 incl. shipping LM2596 modules from China to be of any decent quality -- it's simply impossible. The same for many other seemingly impossibly cheap deals. In China we call this IQ tax -- stupid, greedy and naive people get scammed, they pay for their stupidity.
In the periphery countries in Latin America (I know well Brazil and Argentina and friends report similar things in Peru, Paraguay and Chile) and perhaps Africa, what you see on the streets that is "Made in China" is the absolute bottom of the barrel (or perhaps it is what has fallen from the barrel) in terms of quality - I couldn't yet see that level of low quality in a store here in the US.

A few years ago, however, there was also a heap of absolute garbage consumer products with a stamp that had the deutscher adler (eagle) and the inscription "German Export" - they were actually made in Germany but were preying on the folks that believed that everything from Germany was high quality...
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline rammy

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #198 on: July 19, 2017, 02:06:37 pm »
so does it mean my new fluke 179 is made in USA? |O
 

Offline chiptec

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Re: Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?
« Reply #199 on: November 10, 2018, 09:44:08 pm »
I know this topic is a little old, but I thought I'd add the details of my new 87V for future reference.

Purchased new, 436GBP (inc VAT), Jan 2018 in the UK from CPC (division of Farnell/Element14).

DMM itself is not marked with any Made In etc moulded in the grey plastic.
DMM has light grey outer ring on V/Ohm/Diode jack, red inner. Other jacks are dark grey outer rings, red inners/black inner on COM.
Holster say "Assembled in USA".
Box itself is 11/2013 revision, states "Printed in USA. Made in the US with Imported Parts."
Manufacturers self-adhesive label says: FLUKE-87-5/EUR, Mfg Date Jun2017, Country of Origin: United States

Farnell's stock label says their part number is IN04389, Manf Part No: FLUKE 87-V/EUR, COO: US

I registered this DMM on Fluke's site. It didn't complain about the serial number at all. But also I didn't get a confirmation email either so their registration checks might be a little lightweight...

Kevin
 
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