Author Topic: Which oscilloscope for $100  (Read 21296 times)

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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2017, 08:52:13 pm »
- DSO single shot capture is a killer feature. Most old analog scopes won't have this, and it's one of the critical functions of the oscilloscope imo.

Yes indeed. The old analogue storage scopes always were a pain in the ass, and were only tolerated because there was nothing better.

Having said that, the local Hackspace now has a Telequipment DM63 - a dual beam storage scope so you can capture relationships between transients that are too fast for chopping mode.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2017, 08:54:55 pm »
no better way to learn about electronics than to fix that broken pos scope...   glass is half full...

LOL : )

...so long as you have another oscilloscope to do it with.

You can use a broken 'scope to fix itself. My very first scope, a Telequipment D51, had a flat line on CH2. I used CH1 to diagnose and repair the CH2 Y amplifier circuit. No multimeter involved  ;)

Indeed. I used an HP1740 to diagnose itself when its risetime had mysteriously increased from 3.5ns to 8ns. After having localised the phenomenon, all I had to do was fondle and massage the delay line. Problem solved.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2017, 12:30:32 am »
DSOs are downright sluggish and boring, I have one for the single shot capture business even though my analogue storage scope has always done that well enough for my uses.
One can question what these cheaper DSOs are really capturing in AD land at certain bandwidths..

Noobies should consider getting a WORKING analogue scope NOW, get familiar with all the knobs, and see INSTANTLY what's happening on the screen when you probe or hook something up.

If you do buy one, get it locally, PICK IT UP YOURSELF,

and get it home like you would a newborn baby (whether it's yours or suspect foul play  :-//

« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 12:35:25 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline P90

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2017, 01:30:46 am »
DSOs are downright sluggish and boring, I have one for the single shot capture business even though my analogue storage scope has always done that well enough for my uses.
One can question what these cheaper DSOs are really capturing in AD land at certain bandwidths..

Noobies should consider getting a WORKING analogue scope NOW, get familiar with all the knobs, and see INSTANTLY what's happening on the screen when you probe or hook something up.

If you do buy one, get it locally, PICK IT UP YOURSELF,









and get it home like you would a newborn baby (whether it's yours or suspect foul play  :-//



:-DD :-DD
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2017, 02:00:11 am »
I would have agreed for a long time, however DSOs have gotten quite good and now you can get one for a reasonable price that performs as well as an analog scope for most things, however I would say a cheap analog scope is better than a cheap DSO, analog scopes all work pretty much the same way but the performance and usability of DSOs varies widely. I still always suggest someone learn on a basic analog scope if possible, but it doesn't have to be anything fancy. It forces you to understand how the instrument works and how to take measurements reading the graticule and then when you get a DSO all that stuff will seem so much easier and you'll have the background understanding. If you need bandwidth, analog still offers the most bang for the buck, but if 100MHz will do there are lots of cheap DSOs around now. I've bought several TDS340 DSOs and never paid more than $100 for one.
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2017, 06:18:49 am »
I would have agreed for a long time, however DSOs have gotten quite good and now you can get one for a reasonable price that performs as well as an analog scope for most things, however I would say a cheap analog scope is better than a cheap DSO, analog scopes all work pretty much the same way but the performance and usability of DSOs varies widely. I still always suggest someone learn on a basic analog scope if possible, but it doesn't have to be anything fancy. It forces you to understand how the instrument works and how to take measurements reading the graticule and then when you get a DSO all that stuff will seem so much easier and you'll have the background understanding. If you need bandwidth, analog still offers the most bang for the buck, but if 100MHz will do there are lots of cheap DSOs around now. I've bought several TDS340 DSOs and never paid more than $100 for one.

All that is relevant and valid, but I'd add a couple of points.

Analogue scopes have all the controls on the front panel, not hidden 3 buttons deep in a GUI. That's important for beginners, and  helpful for the experienced.

I've used a Tek TDS340 and it has significant limitations compared to an analogue scope: short memory (so can't scroll along a waveform looking for glitches) and no peak-detect (so averaging can hide transients and noise).
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2017, 08:29:45 am »
It's good to see some agreement on the value of a WORKING analogue oscilloscope for noobs, and experienced users.  :-+

The DSOs have their place, once a user is familiar with scopes in general,
who can then can ~patiently~ waste time looking for an elusive function or trigger thingie, 
usually hidden in some 10 pages deep Ambiguity Menu..  :-//

whilst trying to fix some intermittent PITA POS DUT  |O
(that's almost due to be wave soldered into oblivion, with a heated and pre-fluxed 600 watt sledge hammer)   >:D

 

Offline P90

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2017, 08:34:11 am »
all the more reasons I like equipment with lots of knobs, buttons,  and indicator lights... :)
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2017, 08:53:15 am »
all the more reasons I like equipment with lots of knobs, buttons,  and indicator lights... :)

I like it when ladies roll that way too  ;D
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 09:00:30 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2017, 09:42:50 am »
I'd look for a DSO either new (DSO Nano or something similar) or used. Used analog scopes usually are overpriced old junk especially if it says HP or Tektronix on the badge.

I have no axe to grind in the Analogue vs Digital debate - I grealty value the speed of a decent Analogue scope for signal integrity (I have a Tek475A) and the convenience of single shot on a DSO.

I just wanted to chime in and say for heavens sake Don't be suckered into buying a "DSO Nano or something similar", they're single channel 1Msps toys. If you must go for a DSO for $100, then I would (and did) go for a USB Owon VDS1022(I). Even the lowest end Hantek 6022be would be preferable to a Nano.

Now back to the discussion of the other options... :)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 09:48:21 am by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2017, 09:52:19 am »
I'd look for a DSO either new (DSO Nano or something similar) or used. Used analog scopes usually are overpriced old junk especially if it says HP or Tektronix on the badge.

I have no axe to grind in the Analogue vs Digital debate - I grealty value the speed of a decent Analogue scope for signal integrity (I have a Tek475A) and the convenience of single shot on a DSO.

I just wanted to chime in and say for heavens sake Don't be suckered into buying a "DSO Nano or something similar", they're single channel 1Msps toys. If you must go for a DSO for $100, then I would (and did) go for a USB Owon VDS1022(I). Even the lowest end Hantek 6022be would be preferable to a Nano.

Now back to the discussion of the other options... :)

That's one very useful chime in  :-+

Those nano DSO NoNos don't even rate for a sledge hammer warm up session
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2017, 10:14:02 am »
I'd look for a DSO either new (DSO Nano or something similar) or used. Used analog scopes usually are overpriced old junk especially if it says HP or Tektronix on the badge.
I have no axe to grind in the Analogue vs Digital debate - I grealty value the speed of a decent Analogue scope for signal integrity (I have a Tek475A) and the convenience of single shot on a DSO.

I just wanted to chime in and say for heavens sake Don't be suckered into buying a "DSO Nano or something similar", they're single channel 1Msps toys. If you must go for a DSO for $100, then I would (and did) go for a USB Owon VDS1022(I). Even the lowest end Hantek 6022be would be preferable to a Nano.
There isn't much choice in the $100 area if you want to buy new. The Owon and Hantek are both USB scopes. Ofcourse the DSO nano is a toy but it is not the only device out there which is why I wrote 'something similar'.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2017, 10:20:25 am »
I don't think you'll find ANY new non USB DSO in the $100 bracket that isn't EXACTLY similar to the nano.

Yor preference for DSO over Analogue is very well known (taking the latest 'Which scope' thread as today's example). DSO over Analogue, maybe. DSO at any price? No way!
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2017, 11:11:22 am »
I have no axe to grind in the Analogue vs Digital debate - I grealty value the speed of a decent Analogue scope for signal integrity (I have a Tek475A) and the convenience of single shot on a DSO.

Precisely. "Horses for courses", and "the right tool for the job". Not difficult, really.

Anybody that insists that X is always right (or all you need) should be treated with suspicion.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2017, 11:35:47 am »
I don't think you'll find ANY new non USB DSO in the $100 bracket that isn't EXACTLY similar to the nano.

Yor preference for DSO over Analogue is very well known (taking the latest 'Which scope' thread as today's example). DSO over Analogue, maybe. DSO at any price? No way!
Name something an analog scope is better at (and don't come up with something which is due to people staying stuck in old habits)!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2017, 11:54:44 am »
Quote
Name something an analog scope is better at (and don't come up with something which is due to people staying stuck in old habits)!
Huh?  :-//

Ok, Bandwidth for one!

Pretty much any used, working, Analogue scope in the $100 range is going to perform better than a DSO Nano (200kHz 1Msps) 'or similar'. You still haven't provided any evidence of what 'similar' $100 DSO exists that isn't as poor as a DSO Nano.

There is nothing wrong with USB by the way, if properly implemented. The VDS1022 does it well, the Hantek much less so.

I made it perfectly clear that I have no axe to grind regarding Analogue vs DSO, I have and use both.

To advise someone with $100 to spend to buy a DSO Nano 'or similar' (if you insist on some wriggle, not wiggle room). Is Bad Advice! I am simply calling you on it.



Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline bsalai

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2017, 12:15:58 pm »
But that's the great part. You will need to get another scope to fix the first one, and if you are lucky, yet another's one to fix the second one. Just ask some of the folks here how many they have. It's enough to make you drink, which by the way is easier to quit!
Soon, your spouse and kids will have left and you will be living in your basement. At least your scopes will keep you warm.


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Offline Gyro

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2017, 12:17:18 pm »
I did say working.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2017, 12:42:37 pm »
To advise someone with $100 to spend to buy a DSO Nano 'or similar' (if you insist on some wriggle, not wiggle room). Is Bad Advice! I am simply calling you on it.
I'm quite sure the DSO Nano (or similar) would be a great help back when I only had a 20MHz analog scope. Perhaps you could elaborate why the DSO nano is such a bad choice.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2017, 12:55:37 pm »
Err, because it's Single channel, 200kHz (at best!) 1Msps of course. :palm:  That's a catastrophically bad deal compared to what else you could buy for the same money. As you said yourself "It's a toy"!

Ok, if you want to stay in the DSO domain then the VDS1022 is [Edit: 2 channel] 25MHz (verified) 100Msps. A working second hand Analogue scope of ebay would get you 50-100MHz [Edit: 2 channel] for the same price.

It depends whether repetitive bandwidth or single shot is more important to the OP.

Surely you can't still be claiming the the DSO Nano (or unidentified 'similar') is good advice?  :o
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 01:02:47 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2017, 01:03:29 pm »
Err, because it's Single channel, 200kHz (at best!) 1Msps of course. :palm:  That's a catastrophically bad deal compared to what else you could buy for the same money. As you said yourself "It's a toy"!

Ok, if you want to stay in the DSO domain then the VDS1022 is [Edit: 2 channel] 25MHz (verified) 100Msps. A working second hand Analogue scope of ebay would get you 50-100MHz for the same price.
But now you are looking only at bandwidth. I'm looking at doing single shots, low frequency signals, measurements, storing screenshots, etc. IOW: everything an analog scope sucks at. The right choice depends on the intended use of the OP.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2017, 01:15:34 pm »
Quote
But now you are looking only at bandwidth. I'm looking at doing single shots, low frequency signals, measurements, storing screenshots, etc. IOW: everything an analog scope sucks at. The right choice depends on the intended use of the OP.

That's exactly what I just said. I mentioned both bandwidth and single shot. The VDS1022 has single shot, measurements, storage etc etc, has twice as many channels and is 100 times the sample rate of the DSO Nano. If the OP wants repetitive then he can have about 500 times the bandwidth of the DSO Nano (4 times the VDS1022) with an analogue.

In neither OP choice scenario does the DSO Nano make any sense whatsoever! There are times when you're at the bottom of a hole and you really need to stop digging, at least while people are watching!  ;)
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2017, 01:59:56 pm »
Indeed. Why would a small portable solution always be worse than one which needs at least a laptop.  :-//
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2017, 02:03:29 pm »
Because it's a "Toy" rather than a useful piece of test equipment.  ::) Maybe you like the user interface though its pre-modification MP3 player buttons?

Any other objections while we're here?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 02:06:55 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Which oscilloscope for $100
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2017, 02:09:08 pm »
To advise someone with $100 to spend to buy a DSO Nano 'or similar' (if you insist on some wriggle, not wiggle room). Is Bad Advice! I am simply calling you on it.
I'm quite sure the DSO Nano (or similar) would be a great help back when I only had a 20MHz analog scope. Perhaps you could elaborate why the DSO nano is such a bad choice.

I've used my DSO Quad twice this week. It's horrible to use and only about 10MHz bandwidth but it fits in a pocket and is battery powered. Both times it showed the problem, both times it was the right tool for the job.

Err, because it's Single channel, 200kHz (at best!)

A "Quad" is 2 Analog+2 digital channels, 10MHz-ish.

 


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