How is the new Keysight 1000 x series scope compared with other low cost scopes?

[TK]

This is my list (in order of preference):

• Keysight DSOX1102 (own)
• Micsig TO1102 / TO1104 (own)
• Rigol DS1054Z (sold because of slow UI)
• Siglent SDS1202X-E (If you need 200MHz and serial decode for under $400)

[TheAmmoniacal]

One thing I can say for the Keysight scopes is that they enjoyable to use, and that's rare.

[fishandchips]

How come they don't make a 4-channel version for the new 1000 x series?

[TK]

How come they don't make a 4-channel version for the new 1000 x series?

If you need 4 channels, go for Micsig or Rigol.  The 1000X (DSOX) actually has 2 analog channels + 1 digital channel

[rstofer]

Four channels is very nice for decoding SPI.  It sometimes comes to pass that CS' is raised before the last bits have shifted out (programming error) and this is easy to see when you can see all 4 signals.

My thoughts on decoding:  I don't need to see very long packets of data.  I can use printf() for that.  What I want to see is just a few chars that are correct and whether the signals are clean.  In other words, does any data pass over the link.  I am not trying to decode a serial version of "War and Peace",

Four channels is a luxury.  It is the primary reason I bought the DS1054Z as I already had a Tek 485 with 350 MHz bandwidth.  All the other gadgets, like measurements, decoding and FFT (such as it is) are just frosting on the cake.  Except for Single shot mode - that is now a requirement.  I never had that before.

Probably the only other scope in that price range is the Siglent SDS1202X-E and from reading a bit about the scope, it appears there may be some glitches in the firmware.  Siglent doesn't seem to have a reputation for expediting upgrades so I'm going to wait and see.  I could envision buying a 200 MHz scope.  There are times when bandwidth is really important.  For the moment, that idea is on back burner.

DS1054Z:  Yes, the fan is noisy but not all that bad compared to other equipment, including my 485.  Yes, it is well understood how to fix it.  The thing is, after having changed the fan, I find my scope being left on for long periods of time.  The scope is on a bench on my right and slightly behind my head.  I don't see it unless I go looking.

Yes, the selection encoder is twitchy as it is on many other scopes.  The fix for this is also well understood.  I consider the fan mod to be optional but changing out the encoder seems like a requirement.  Having done this, I find the menu system to be a lot easier to use.  Yes, I wiped out the warranty the second day I had the scope.  So?

Whatever bugs are left in the firmware are truly obscure, except for the spelling error and I suspect this is becoming an inside joke at Rigol.

In my view, the DS1054Z owns the entry level scope market.  Maybe the SDS1202X-E takes a piece, maybe not.  Sure, there are better scopes but those that are markedly better tend to cost at least twice as much, sometimes 3 times.  But, in the end, the scope is still an entry level model.  Those scopes in the multiples of tens of thousands of dollars really are better.

[fishandchips]

There is no plan to decode SPI. I probably choose between DS1054Z, Keysight 1000x and GDS-2204E.

I cannot stand the lag in scope. Is it true that the Keysight 1000 x is buggy? Can we get a better pair of probes for the scope at below US$100? Giving the uncertainty of hacking to max out the scope, which model do you recommend, In case of choosing the Keysight 1000x, which model do you recommend?

[TK]

There is no plan to decode SPI. I probably choose between DS1054Z, Keysight 1000x and GDS-2204E.

I cannot stand the lag in scope. Is it true that the Keysight 1000 x is buggy? Can we get a better pair of probes for the scope at below US$100? Giving the uncertainty of hacking to max out the scope, which model do you recommend, In case of choosing the Keysight 1000x, which model do you recommend?

Keysight 1000X firmware is not buggy.  You can get decent pair of probes for around $20 on eBay.  I recommend the DSOX1102 and not the EDUX1002.  EDUX can still be hacked to behave like a DSOX (more memory, segmented memory, 70MHz...) but you need to replace 2 SMD resistors that will void the warranty and it can break the user calibration process.  And if you want it to be like a DSOX including the digital channel, then you need to add some 10-15 extra components.  If you are OK with 2 channels, then just the 2 resistor swap is OK.

EDUX is very limited (only 50MHz, I think it has 128Kpoints memory depth, no segmented memory)

In summary, the Keysight 1000X looks and feels like a professional scope (like a little brother of Keysight 2000X and 3000X)... same UI, same responsiveness (not the same features)

[fishandchips]

There is no plan to decode SPI. I probably choose between DS1054Z, Keysight 1000x and GDS-2204E.

I cannot stand the lag in scope. Is it true that the Keysight 1000 x is buggy? Can we get a better pair of probes for the scope at below US$100? Giving the uncertainty of hacking to max out the scope, which model do you recommend, In case of choosing the Keysight 1000x, which model do you recommend?

Keysight 1000X firmware is not buggy.  You can get decent pair of probes for around $20 on eBay.  I recommend the DSOX1102 and not the EDUX1002.  EDUX can still be hacked to behave like a DSOX (more memory, segmented memory, 70MHz...) but you need to replace 2 SMD resistors that will void the warranty and it can break the user calibration process.  And if you want it to be like a DSOX including the digital channel, then you need to add some 10-15 extra components.  If you are OK with 2 channels, then just the 2 resistor swap is OK.

EDUX is very limited (only 50MHz, I think it has 128Kpoints memory depth, no segmented memory)

In summary, the Keysight 1000X looks and feels like a professional scope (like a little brother of Keysight 2000X and 3000X)... same UI, same responsiveness (not the same features)

Thanks. So, the DSOX1102A and the DSOX1102G are the remaining choices. I have a function generator already. Trying to figure out if it is better to get the 1102G rater than the 1102A. Is the Bode plot test function in the 1102G useful? Can the 70MHz and 100MHz versions be easily hacked to allow higher bandwidth?

Is it highly recommended to get another set of probes? Is there a recommended band and model number?

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

For the function generator, it depends on what you're doing. I use the built in function generator all the time for my side project stuff even though I have a stand-alone function generator on my bench because it's so convenient. But, my stand-alone FG has better specs and bandwidth. The 70 MHz and 100 MHz DSO versions are the same hardware, and Dave's hack does appear to work the same on both models. But, the hack is definitely not Keysight supported and will void your warranty. Also, we didn't test the scope to 200 MHz, just 100 MHz so it's an at-your-own-risk thing.

For probes, the oscilloscope will come with two of the passive probes, but it never hurts to have backups. I can't say much about non-Keysight probes because I don't have much experience there, but I do trust the ones that come with the 1000 X-Series.

[serggio]

For probes, the oscilloscope will come with two of the passive probes, but it never hurts to have backups. I can't say much about non-Keysight probes because I don't have much experience there, but I do trust the ones that come with the 1000 X-Series.

Well, what you can say about Keysight probe?
We waiting information about issue with Keysight N2140A probes included with this scope.
I ordered Keysight N2843A 500 MHz Passive Probe for testing with this scope and will compare it with N2140A. Hope next week I'll receive my new probe and will do some measurement.
When your testing will be ready Daniel?

[TheAmmoniacal]

There is no plan to decode SPI. I probably choose between DS1054Z, Keysight 1000x and GDS-2204E.

I cannot stand the lag in scope. Is it true that the Keysight 1000 x is buggy? Can we get a better pair of probes for the scope at below US$100? Giving the uncertainty of hacking to max out the scope, which model do you recommend, In case of choosing the Keysight 1000x, which model do you recommend?

Keysight 1000X firmware is not buggy.  You can get decent pair of probes for around $20 on eBay.  I recommend the DSOX1102 and not the EDUX1002.  EDUX can still be hacked to behave like a DSOX (more memory, segmented memory, 70MHz...) but you need to replace 2 SMD resistors that will void the warranty and it can break the user calibration process.  And if you want it to be like a DSOX including the digital channel, then you need to add some 10-15 extra components.  If you are OK with 2 channels, then just the 2 resistor swap is OK.

EDUX is very limited (only 50MHz, I think it has 128Kpoints memory depth, no segmented memory)

In summary, the Keysight 1000X looks and feels like a professional scope (like a little brother of Keysight 2000X and 3000X)... same UI, same responsiveness (not the same features)

Thanks. So, the DSOX1102A and the DSOX1102G are the remaining choices. I have a function generator already. Trying to figure out if it is better to get the 1102G rater than the 1102A. Is the Bode plot test function in the 1102G useful? Can the 70MHz and 100MHz versions be easily hacked to allow higher bandwidth?

Is it highly recommended to get another set of probes? Is there a recommended band and model number?

I decided on the DSOX1102A which I recently bought, I have no regrets. The Bode Plot is mostly a gimmick the way it's implemented in the current firmware, low resolution and few steps. I guess it's fine for introducing students to the idea, but the practical uses are very limited in my opinion.

For simple waveform demonstration purposes you have the built-in training signals. For using a function generator on the bench I'd rather get dedicated one, the $200 price difference gets you a function generator with better specifications. And it's much more practical to adjust while doing measurements than going into menus on the scope to change things (dedicated knobs for everything ftw!).

The probes are just fine, nothing exceptional, but perfectly usable. If I remember correctly the scope is supplied with 2 probes, so you will want a third for the digital channel.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

For probes, the oscilloscope will come with two of the passive probes, but it never hurts to have backups. I can't say much about non-Keysight probes because I don't have much experience there, but I do trust the ones that come with the 1000 X-Series.

Well, what you can say about Keysight probe?
We waiting information about issue with Keysight N2140A probes included with this scope.
I ordered Keysight N2843A 500 MHz Passive Probe for testing with this scope and will compare it with N2140A. Hope next week I'll receive my new probe and will do some measurement.
When your testing will be ready Daniel?

The team is still working on testing it out. The preliminary results are that the variable cap appears to change with temperature, so we're working on characterizing a larger sample size in a controlled temperature environment. My earlier recommendation still stands - warm up the scope + probe together if making sensitive measurements.

The Bode Plot is mostly a gimmick the way it's implemented in the current firmware, low resolution and few steps. I guess it's fine for introducing students to the idea, but the practical uses are very limited in my opinion.

The probes are just fine, nothing exceptional, but perfectly usable. If I remember correctly the scope is supplied with 2 probes, so you will want a third for the digital channel.

It's very, very likely that the Bode plot points-per-decade setting will get increased in the next firmware update. I'm not sure if I can commit 100% to that at this point, but the overall consensus here from both planning and R&D is that it should be improved.

And yes, it comes with 2 probes, so if you want to use a passive probe with the digital channel you'll need to get a 3rd.

[fishandchips]

Hi Daniel, what is the chance of releasing a 4-channel version of the new 1000x series? I am also considering 4-channel scopes of other brands.

[fishandchips]

Usually I supply the circuits with a test signal from a function generator. Then, observe how the respond of one node of a circuit is like. I have both the input and output on display at the same time. In case I need to observe how the respond of other nodes, can I have the input and respond signals staying on the screen. Then, display the respond of other nodes for comparison?

Can I save the data to a computer or usb drive using the Keysight 1000 x series scopes? Do I need to buy extra cable/module?

[TK]

Usually I supply the circuits with a test signal from a function generator. Then, observe how the respond of one node of a circuit is like. I have both the input and output on display at the same time. In case I need to observe how the respond of other nodes, can I have the input and respond signals staying on the screen. Then, display the respond of other nodes for comparison?

Can I save the data to a computer or usb drive using the Keysight 1000 x series scopes? Do I need to buy extra cable/module?

You can store the test signal as a reference (you can store 2 reference signals on 1000X scopes) and display one of them at a time independent of the CH1 and CH2 inputs.

[fishandchips]

Thanks. How come the curves are fuzzy looking?

[tautech]

How come the curves are fuzzy looking?

Because it is a DSO.
Watch these:
https://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/10/eevblog-601-why-digital-oscilloscopes-appear-noisy/
https://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/27/eevblog-610-why-digital-scopes-appear-noisy-part-2/

[fishandchips]

How come the curves are fuzzy looking?

Because it is a DSO.
Watch these:
https://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/10/eevblog-601-why-digital-oscilloscopes-appear-noisy/
https://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/27/eevblog-610-why-digital-scopes-appear-noisy-part-2/

So, the GDS-2204E and DS1054Z also have this issue? I am trying to decide among these three scopes.

[tautech]

How come the curves are fuzzy looking?

Because it is a DSO.
Watch these:
https://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/10/eevblog-601-why-digital-oscilloscopes-appear-noisy/
https://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/27/eevblog-610-why-digital-scopes-appear-noisy-part-2/

So, the GDS-2204E and DS1054Z also have this issue?

It is not an issue, some noise, furriness or thick waveforms are part of life with DSO's.
Study the methods used to clean up waveforms or just know they are this way and work with it. 
The noise is information, some of which you may need to know, some you may not.
Experience tells us what we need to take notice of and what we can ignore.

[fishandchips]

For the Keysight 1000 x series scopes, can I save the data to a storage device or to a computer without the need to purchase extra hardware?

In case of going for the 1000 x series rather than the GDS-2204E or DS1054Z, is it better to wait for Keysight to fix the issue with the probes first?

[TK]

For the Keysight 1000 x series scopes, can I save the data to a storage device or to a computer without the need to purchase extra hardware?

In case of going for the 1000 x series rather than the GDS-2204E or DS1054Z, is it better to wait for Keysight to fix the issue with the probes first?

If you explain what you need to accomplish (I read your post asking about the difference between an oscilloscope and a data logger) you will receive a more specific recommendation.

The probe drift is not an issue, really... if it is a problem for you, you can get decent scopes on eBay for around $30 the pair.

[nctnico]

For the Keysight 1000 x series scopes, can I save the data to a storage device or to a computer without the need to purchase extra hardware?

In case of going for the 1000 x series rather than the GDS-2204E or DS1054Z, is it better to wait for Keysight to fix the issue with the probes first?

The 1000X probes are a total non-issue. If you don't like them then throw them away and spend $30-$40 to buy new ones. Personally I never use the probes which come with a scope anyway. I have a whole bunch (10 or so) of identical probes from Testec.

I'm not sure what you mean by extra hardware but the GDS-2204E has an internal flash drive and the ability to safe screendumps directly to a Windows network share over the network. Otherwise I'm quite sure the 1000X can save data to a USB stick.

[TK]

I'm not sure what you mean by extra hardware but the GDS-2204E has an internal flash drive and the ability to safe screendumps directly to a Windows network share over the network. Otherwise I'm quite sure the 1000X can save data to a USB stick.

Fishandchips was asking on another thread about the difference between an oscilloscope and a data logger.  I guess he/she is needing to save the captured data in excel or text format, a bunch of data, not just a screenshot.  He/she indicated that a post processing is needed on the PC.  That is why I asked what is the exact project description to be able to help.

[nctnico]

I'm not sure what you mean by extra hardware but the GDS-2204E has an internal flash drive and the ability to safe screendumps directly to a Windows network share over the network. Otherwise I'm quite sure the 1000X can save data to a USB stick.

Fishandchips was asking on another thread about the difference between an oscilloscope and a data logger.  I guess he/she is needing to save the captured data in excel or text format, a bunch of data, not just a screenshot.  He/she indicated that a post processing is needed on the PC.  That is why I asked what is the exact project description to be able to help.

The GDS2204 can also save raw data to a PC or USB stick by using the buttons on the front panel or automatically in data logging mode. I think the 1000X should be able to save raw data onto a USB stick as well.

[pascal_sweden]

The 1000X probes are a total non-issue. If you don't like them then throw them away and spend $30-$40 to buy new ones. Personally I never use the probes which come with a scope anyway. I have a whole bunch (10 or so) of identical probes from Testec.

Even if it is cheap to replace the probes, it's a matter of principle:
One is not supposed to replace the probes of a brand new oscilloscope up front.

And if decent quality probes are really so cheap, how come Keysight has choosen to deliver the 1000X with the most crappiest probes on Earth?

Current product management at Keysight in a nutshell:

Lack of quality control.
Lack of responsibility.
Lack of accountability.
Lack of respect.
No long-term vision.
Key-sightless.