Need desoldering equipment advice

[Quatrerwin]

I've had to desolder on occasion and I've been using solder wick and a manual solder vacuum. It worked great until I started working on older video game consoles with large pin connectors. I should mention that I have somewhat limited dexterity in one hand, so desoldering this way has been challenging and even more challenging when desoldering older equipment.

I've been getting concerned about the length of time required to desolder larger components this way. Is there a better way or am I going to need something like the Hakko FR-300 or ZD-985? The one thing that's been making me hesitant to pull the trigger on either solution is the cost for how little I seem to desolder things (but like I said, the things I do desolder tend to be larger components). I did think about Chipquik, but I think the dexterity issue along with the size of components would make even that difficult or expensive very quick.

Does anyone have any advice?

EDIT:
The main reason is I'm looking for advice as to which equipment would make it easier to desolder/rework through hole components despite physical limitations. I only really have heard about the ZD-985 and Hakko 808/FR-300. Currently I use a Hakko FX-888D soldering station with T18-D16, T18-D32 and  T18-S4 tips along with a manual solder pump and Chemtronics desoldering braid. I have a YouYue 858D+ hot air rework station for SMD soldering and rework.

[helius]

The FR-300 or ZD-985 are for thru-hole pins. If you can't clear a pin manually in less than 10 seconds, it will be less risky to use a desoldering gun.
You know how after manually desoldering a pin, you have to push on it to break the residual solder inside the hole? With a simple technique, the desoldering gun can do that for you.

[Quatrerwin]

That's what's pushing me towards getting a desoldering gun. I last worked on a NES front loader. It took several hours to get the expansion port out because of the oxidation and everything. After adding flux and extra solder didn't work, I had to slightly pull up part of the connector to clip the pins. Ended up totally destroying the port (which I didn't need), but not sure if I did lasting damage to the board with all the heat. It didn't look like I lifted any pads.

[vealmike]

In my experience desolder stations aren't useful. If we're talking about the hollow tipped soldering bit, with vacuum then they're pretty useless.
The problem is that when you turn the air pump on, cool air is drawn through the solder tip and the solder solidifies.

If we count BGAs and CGAs out as not hand reworkable, there should be nothing you can not unsolder with a decent iron, wick and a hand pump.
Many engineers struggle with inadequate irons. If you can afford it get a good iron from JBC or Metcal. If you can't afford it, know that this is what you need to fix your issues. JBC are the best, really fast, really powerful and excellent temperature control.
 If buying second hand, be aware that older irons had a lower working temperature. Lead free solder melts at a higher temp and needed new irons.

If you're having difficulties, step 1 is to improve your technique. For through hole pins, when most of the solder is gone, place the iron tip on both via and pin until the solder melts, then move the tip to the pin only and waggle the pin with the tip to break the joint.

Step 2,consider destructive means. Cut the leg of the thing you are desoldering. Removing the thermal mass of the component makes it easier to get up to temperature. It also means you can push through hole pins out one by one with your iron tip rather than having to free the whole component before things move.
Components can be replaced. If the PCB was replaceable, why are you repairing it?

Step 3, when working with lead free is to gradually replace the lead free with leaded solder. Apply heat, remove what solder you can. Apply leaded solder, remove solder, repeat. As the two solders mix, the melting point drops and the job becomes easier.

[DimitriP]

The problem is that when you turn the air pump on, cool air is drawn through the solder tip and the solder solidifies.

You must have not used one of these.
80% is technique, the other %80 is equipment.

I've desolder with solder wick and  hand pump and it always felt like a chore.
I got  one of these and it's so much easier, even enjoyable.

[Quatrerwin]

If you're having difficulties, step 1 is to improve your technique. For through hole pins, when most of the solder is gone, place the iron tip on both via and pin until the solder melts, then move the tip to the pin only and waggle the pin with the tip to break the joint.

Step 2,consider destructive means. Cut the leg of the thing you are desoldering. Removing the thermal mass of the component makes it easier to get up to temperature. It also means you can push through hole pins out one by one with your iron tip rather than having to free the whole component before things move.
Components can be replaced. If the PCB was replaceable, why are you repairing it?

Step 3, when working with lead free is to gradually replace the lead free with leaded solder. Apply heat, remove what solder you can. Apply leaded solder, remove solder, repeat. As the two solders mix, the melting point drops and the job becomes easier.

That is one thing I did try at first was to see if my technique could be improved. My desoldering technique definitely could be improved, but I do not have enough control of my left hand to improve it much more. Thus, the less I have to use my left hand for this, the better. I don't know my left hand will ever be useful enough to either hold the iron in tight spaces nor use solder wick or even a manual solder vacuum well. I have been using a Hakko FX-888D with a variety of tips for both soldering and desoldering through hole parts. I also have a YouYue 858D hot air rework station for some rework and soldering.

One of the things I happen to be into is modifying old video game consoles which tend to have large pin connectors that I would like to salvage since they're pretty expensive on the aftermarket.

[Psi]

i suspect what you need is

1) good quality solder wick (chemtronics / loctite)
2) a decent iron. i've heard good things about these cheap aliexpress irons that take T12 hakko tips
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/138x88x38mm-Digital-Soldering-Iron-Station-Temperature-Controller-EU-Plug-Temperature-180-435-Degrees-T12-Handle/32692999653.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.9XfGNr
3) Genuine iron tip that matches what you are doing.

[cyr]

In my experience desolder stations aren't useful. If we're talking about the hollow tipped soldering bit, with vacuum then they're pretty useless.
The problem is that when you turn the air pump on, cool air is drawn through the solder tip and the solder solidifies.

FWIW, my experience is the opposite. I've always found those manual desoldering pumps to be next to useless, but the old Hakko 470 I got off ebay a while back has been an absolute joy to use.

Granted I don't desolder through hole stuff very often, maybe clogging is a problem if you do hundreds of pins every day.

[cheeseit]

I've been using manual pump and solder wick for years but got a ZD-985 a month ago. While pump and wick usually works reasonable well the desoldering station has made the task a joy. It is just so much easier, safer and enjoyable that I regret not getting it years ago. I've used it for many hours since getting it and have not have any problems using it whatsoever. No clogging, no pads sucked off or anything burned - it just works and makes removing large connectors and other high pincount items real easy. I highly recommend getting one.

[Quatrerwin]

I guess I should make it a bit clearer in the first post as to why I'm looking for advice. The main reason is I'm looking for advice as to which equipment would make it easier to desolder/rework through hole components despite physical limitations. I only really have heard about the ZD-985 and Hakko 808/FR-300

[Quatrerwin]

I've been using manual pump and solder wick for years but got a ZD-985 a month ago. While pump and wick usually works reasonable well the desoldering station has made the task a joy. It is just so much easier, safer and enjoyable that I regret not getting it years ago. I've used it for many hours since getting it and have not have any problems using it whatsoever. No clogging, no pads sucked off or anything burned - it just works and makes removing large connectors and other high pincount items real easy. I highly recommend getting one.

Does it work as well as it did in Dave's review once he fixed the wiring issue his unit had? I see it's about $100 USD cheaper than the Hakko FR-300 option.

[KD0CAC John]

I have several desoldering tools , there are always in almost any repair bench a need for multiple types to do general work .
For just the type of work your mentioning - through hole , an older Metcal power supply , the DS1 [ make sure you get the matching connector , then using shop air to the gun , it makes a vacuum .
This is one of the beast for several reasons , you can find the gun for $75 - $150 , power supply for about the same and using shop air [ compressor ] you get the performance at low cost .
I also have JBC Micro 360 unit - pencil , power supply & vacuum pump , but for a great price NIB on eBay for about $450 - this I use the most , because now days most of the stuff I work on is smaller , by the way they have tips with a notch for removing most of the solder for SMD work .
Also have a couple of hot air stations , sometime use multiples at the same time , also forgot the hot plate method - preheating .

[LaurentR]

My 2 cents: yes, a desoldering gun is likely to make your desoldering much faster and much much easier, especially if you have only one good hand.

I have been using wick and solder suckers and a Metcal iron for a while and yes, desoldering lots of pins is possible, but it requires time, a very good technique and the occasional problem (solder splash, glue...) because, well, most of us do not have a perfect technique.

I recently got a good price on a Metcal DS-1 and oh-boy is this thing simple to use. Push head against solder, wait for solder to melt, press trigger, wiggle the pin, release trigger. Total time 3-5s per pin and a 100% clean and easy job. All with one hand no real difficulty. These things do clog, but mostly because of bad technique (i.e. releasing the trigger while solder is still being sucked in).

So, if you have the money, I would say that a desoldering gun is a good investment, especially in your case. I almost got a FR300 before finding the Metcal. It seems to be a great all-in-one gun that should work for you. If you're patient, you can get really good prices by waiting for a 25% or 30% sale on Zoro, otherwise get one at tequipment.net with the Eevblog discount.

The Metcal is great, but it requires a Metcal power supply and shop air (I use CO2, it's easier for occasional use), so unless you're ready to hunt EBay for good used ones (or want to switch your soldering station to a Metcal), the Hakko or its older brother the 808 are probably the best deal.

[Quatrerwin]

I keep hearing about the Metcal. Unfortunately it seems a bit pricey for me and I don't have access to such an air supply since I live in an apartment. That may be something for me to consider when I get a house in a few years.

[LaurentR]

I keep hearing about the Metcal. Unfortunately it seems a bit pricey for me and I don't have access to such an air supply since I live in an apartment. That may be something for me to consider when I get a house in a few years.

I agree. The Metcal makes sense only if you move your main soldering equipment to Metcal (which is very expensive new, but there is a vast second-hand market for Metcal in the US as these are indestructible and widely used in production).

As for air, there are cheap compressors (mostly airbrush compressors) that would do the job. In my case, I didn't want to deal with the noise and I am using cheap CO2 paintball bottles with a pressure regulator. Works like a charm (I learnt about the CO2 option from the guys doing engraving using pneumatic engravers - they use CO2 as a portable source of compressed gas when they are offsite).

[Quatrerwin]

I keep hearing about the Metcal. Unfortunately it seems a bit pricey for me and I don't have access to such an air supply since I live in an apartment. That may be something for me to consider when I get a house in a few years.

I agree. The Metcal makes sense only if you move your main soldering equipment to Metcal (which is very expensive new, but there is a vast second-hand market for Metcal in the US as these are indestructible and widely used in production).

As for air, there are cheap compressors (mostly airbrush compressors) that would do the job. In my case, I didn't want to deal with the noise and I am using cheap CO2 paintball bottles with a pressure regulator. Works like a charm (I learnt about the CO2 option from the guys doing engraving using pneumatic engravers - they use CO2 as a portable source of compressed gas when they are offsite).

I make and keg my own beer as well, so I could use one of my 5 or 10 pound carbon dioxide tanks as a gas supply if I do go that route in the future.

[neslekkim]

I keep hearing about the Metcal. Unfortunately it seems a bit pricey for me and I don't have access to such an air supply since I live in an apartment. That may be something for me to consider when I get a house in a few years.

There is also the metcal mfr 1351, with built in vacuum pump

[cheeseit]

Does it work as well as it did in Dave's review once he fixed the wiring issue his unit had? I see it's about $100 USD cheaper than the Hakko FR-300 option.

First, I was on the road when I replied and got the models mixed up and mine is the ZD-915. That may or may not be of importance but sorry for the mix up.

If you're still interested, I watched the review long time ago and just skimmed through it now but I would give the one I have thumbs up. The chamber in the gun assembly is a little different on mine in that the spiral thing is only a loosely wound spring that is pressing against a small piece of metal that then pushes against the filter. I believe that the chamber on mine holds a bit more this way and I have filled it entirely without noticing any drop in suction. Other than that I think the difference is cosmetic.

The only issue was that fan noise was annoying but I fixed that by removing the grill and dropping the voltage to the fan from 18V to 12V. You may have seen it but someone did a teardown of it here. He is somewhat positive but less so than me. Mine too came with three nozzles and filters and my Hakko 191 thermometer is in agreement with the thermocouples on my meters and all are within a few degrees from the set temperature. Sure ground planes need more time and/or higher temperature but it works perfectly fine.

One of the first real jobs I used it for were moving a DB15 connector from a graphics card to an instrument and while possible with manual sucker and wick, it is no where near as easy (or as fast) as with a desoldering gun, especially on plated holes with tight tolerance and lead free solder.

I'm more or less sure that a Metcal or Hakko is better so if you can afford it, go for it. If not just go for what you can afford, I'm pretty sure you won't regret getting one, especially considering your hand.

[Quatrerwin]

I was thinking the Metcal options were a bit out of my price range, but the FR-300 and ZD-915/985 were more in the range due to the relative infrequency of my desoldering needs (but like I said, the components can be large, pretty old, and I would like to be able to salvage them). I've been reading about some issues with the FR-300 in its thread, but haven't read too much on the ZD-915/985 models. I'll have to read more on them and if anyone has used both the FR-300 and the ZD-985 (or ZD-915) to see how they compare since there is a fairly large price difference between the two.

[macboy]

I have a Hakko 470 and a Metcal MX-DS1 (the compressed air powered one). The Hakko is very good, but the Metcal is far superior. Its tip just never clogs. The collection chamber is simpler and easier to clean that any other... if you have a paper chamber liner pre-folded, you can swap a full one for the new one in just a few seconds, and get back to work. The suction is powerful and quick, since the vacuum is generated in the handle just inches from the tip, rather than at the end of a 6 foot long hose that must be depressurized each time you pull the trigger. When you add all that to Metcal's well-known thermal capacity, the resulting tool is just fantastic.

[Nprod]

Hey all, i have one of these cheaper solutions where you use a rubber bulb instead of a vacuum pump to such the solder out:



Is a soldering gun any better compared to that? I know you can attach a vaccuum pump to one of these, but was never sure if it's really worth it. The whole hollow-tip approach seems like a solution mostly for through-hole pins, not SMD boards.

[eKretz]

Comparing that thing to a good vacuum desoldering gun is kind of like comparing a blowgun to an assault rifle.

Using a tip with grooves, SMD pads can easily be cleaned of solder also. Pace and Ersa both have some vids of this on YouTube I believe.

[Melt-O-Tronic]

I finally gave in and got a Hakko FR-300 about a year and a half ago.  OH! the time I wasted with solder suckers & braid over the years!     I am madly in love with the FR-300.  I read for a long time about the agony of unclogging but that only makes me appreciate it more as I zip through HUNDREDS of parts between cleaning sessions and the few clogs I've encountered were quickly and easily cleared.

It's really amazing to desolder 40 pin DIP sockets and multi-pin connectors and have them just drop free 90% of the time.

In my opinion, if desoldering is important enough that you're asking the question, then you need an FR-300 or something comparable.

[KL27x]

have them just drop free 90% of the time.

Not bad. Probably almost as good as a solder sucker.
Right equipment (all solder suckers are not equal) and proper technique is all it takes.

[Quatrerwin]

have them just drop free 90% of the time.

Not bad. Probably almost as good as a solder sucker.
Right equipment (all solder suckers are not equal) and proper technique is all it takes.

Any recommendation for a solder sucker?