EEVblog #779 - How To Measure Product Battery Cutoff Voltage

[Godzil]

That would make sense if and only if the device use a simple comparator to detect dead battery and shot down in this case. But well engineered product don't do that.
Such a dimple thing is just used for a single led or lcd display about the battery getting low. That's why such a display flick a lot because of this spikes, but I never saw a product that just cut power with such a test

[EEVblog]

No I think his crazy claim is that devices that work down to 1.1V will also stop working if the battery can still supply 1.3V but a current surge causes the voltage to suddenly drop below 1.1V??

Well, yeah, in theory, on the white board. In practice it doesn't work like that in the majority of products for a multitude of often interacting reasons.

[McBryce]

No I think his crazy claim is that devices that work down to 1.1V will also stop working if the battery can still supply 1.3V but a current surge causes the voltage to suddenly drop below 1.1V??

Well, yeah, in theory, on the white board. In practice it doesn't work like that in the majority of products for a multitude of often interacting reasons.

Nobody seems to have told him that yet

McBryce.

[EEVblog]

That would make sense if and only if the device use a simple comparator to detect dead battery and shot down in this case. But well engineered product don't do that.

Exactly, the product would have to a fast brown-out latch to catch those spikes. Hardly any products do that in practice.
Well engineered products have DC-DC converters with both input and output caps.

[LabSpokane]

This whole current spike thing is just a red herring. It's a new claim that they're making so that they don't need to competently address the old claims. And now that they're officially an over-unity device by their own words, they have no credibility left at all.

[apis]

If any device did that, worst case is the device would turn on the low battery symbol, it would be really really stupid if it just shut down.

[Kalvin]

If any device did that, worst case is the device would turn on the low battery symbol, it would be really really stupid if it just shut down.

With the Batteriser that is exactly what is going to happen. There will be no low battery warning as the voltage of the batterisered battery will not decrease as the battery is discharged. The batterisered battery will die in a snap, no low battery warning what so ever. This may not be something that a person with a GPS or LED torch would like to experience in a middle of the night in the middle of nothing.

[Godzil]

Or any device that NEED to save information because of low battery, or prevent the user to use it because the battery is too low for doing something

[jippie]

Or any device that NEED to save information because of low battery, or prevent the user to use it because the battery is too low for doing something

Possibly corrupting the filesystem potentially resulting in loss of all files.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

This whole current spike thing is just a red herring. It's a new claim that they're making so that they don't need to competently address the old claims. And now that they're officially an over-unity device by their own words, they have no credibility left at all.

I have the Tektronix TCP202 current probe that was used in the video. Time to check a few device .... 

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Bud]

Here's the claimed response

Br-r-r-r-r ...   

[amyk]

This whole current spike thing is just a red herring. It's a new claim that they're making so that they don't need to competently address the old claims.

The funny thing is, someone actually posted about whether the Batteriser might help with current spikes, before that long video came out. It was either in this thread or the #751 thread, but I remember seeing that post (and the conclusion was that it wouldn't help because the battery would have to supply even more current into the booster).

...and while we're in funny mode...

[Bud]

    

[Jay_Diddy_B]

JDB

[McBryce]

Luckily, your circuit design skills are a lot better than your Photoshopping skills Jay!

McBryce.

[Circlotron]

^^ So, Bob's their uncle.
And a monkey's uncle at that.

[tree]

With Dave's latest video (789) it should be bloody obvious to batteriser that:
1. Ah doesn't measure battery capacity as they showed in their latest video. It can be seen in the Energizer datasheet that Ah capacity varies with load current. (I bet the Wh capacity of the battery doesn't vary as drastically with load current as does the Ah capacity) Will let Dave show that if he feels like it.
2. OC voltage is useless.

EDIT: Dave needs a debunking media press kit to go along with those batteriser media press kits.

[daqq]

Good old fashioned science based on probing monkey bums'.

Good job again Dave!

[Jidouka]

This whole current spike thing is just a red herring. It's a new claim that they're making so that they don't need to competently address the old claims.

The funny thing is, someone actually posted about whether the Batteriser might help with current spikes, before that long video came out. It was either in this thread or the #751 thread, but I remember seeing that post (and the conclusion was that it wouldn't help because the battery would have to supply even more current into the booster).

...and while we're in funny mode...

I just got a new desktop background.  Absolutely Brilliant. Thanks for the upload 

[pattyrice]

The response video is a hoot. Did anyone notice that in the GPS test, their ' smoking gun', the device didn't 'fail' like they stated, it just popped up a notification saying the backlight cannot be at full brightness due to the battery level.  They are saying that the device FAILS at this moment.

The GPS is a Garmin Approach G3. I found a review of it here. It says this notification displays when the device's battery level is at 1/2 to 3/4 of full capacity.  The device still functions even when it is below 1.1V per cell.

We kept getting a warning screen that the battery power was “too low for full backlight”, even when the battery meter was showing between 1/2 and 3/4 of a charge remaining. ... One really annoying glitch – when the G3 batteries are near the threshold charge level for triggering a warning screen that battery power is insufficient for full backlighting, the device seems to frequently change its mind about whether there actually is sufficient power or not…and thus, it will re-display the warning screen 2 seconds after it just showed it to you and then again…and again. Once the charge level drops comfortably below that threshold, the problem seems to go away.

 

http://www.criticalgolf.com/reviews/archived-products/garmin-approach-g3-review/

[the_R]

Thanks a lot for helping in giving me a headache .. Because of you I went and watched couple of their videos, I had to stop watching their last one after 9 minutes because the amount of the stupidity and BS gave me a headache .. They guy claims to have 500 patents and goes and uses a Volt axis to plot a current curve!!! Then uses that support his claim .. The Y axis is volts axis you idiot .. You can't plot a constant current curve on it then use the area under the incorrectly plotted curve to represent power!!! Anyone with basic electrical knowledge knows power= V*I, that guy not only ignored that to support his claims but had the nads to put it on video for everyone on this earth to see.
Thanks a lot Dave , you know you are helping them indirectly too .. The more you refute their claims the more curious people get to watch their videos, the more views they get, the more money from YouTube they get. Maybe that's part of their plans  .. I don't know .. All I know that I have a massive headache .. The stupid hurts my brain.
Keep up the good work!

[dwayne]

I'd love to see a comparison of the discharge curves of a 'bare' battery and one with the batterizer on it...  How much less energy do you get?

[Fungus]

The response video is a hoot. Did anyone notice that in the GPS test, their ' smoking gun', the device didn't 'fail' like they stated, it just popped up a notification saying the backlight cannot be at full brightness due to the battery level.  They are saying that the device FAILS at this moment.

The GPS is a Garmin Approach G3. I found a review of it here. It says this notification displays when the device's battery level is at 1/2 to 3/4 of full capacity.  The device still functions even when it is below 1.1V per cell.

We kept getting a warning screen that the battery power was “too low for full backlight”, even when the battery meter was showing between 1/2 and 3/4 of a charge remaining. ... One really annoying glitch – when the G3 batteries are near the threshold charge level for triggering a warning screen that battery power is insufficient for full backlighting, the device seems to frequently change its mind about whether there actually is sufficient power or not…and thus, it will re-display the warning screen 2 seconds after it just showed it to you and then again…and again. Once the charge level drops comfortably below that threshold, the problem seems to go away.

After seeing:
a) Exactly how dead batteries have to be for the monkey to stop moving,
and
b) How long they must have searched to find a device that does what that particular GPS does with batteries...

... you've got to wonder just how ruthless+evil these people are. These guys are pathological nutjobs (to use the correct technical term). They'll stop at nothing.

[Godzil]

Fungus: or they were particularly lucky for both

[LabSpokane]

... you've got to wonder just how ruthless+evil these people are. These guys are pathological nutjobs (to use the correct technical term). They'll stop at nothing.

To some extent, we're all products of our environment.  Bob and Frankie are doing what's expected of them in Silicon Valley.  What they are doing is without a doubt, wrong, but there's also the IPO lottery culture behind this that bears a great deal of responsibility as well.   

Taking money from a VC really is a Faustian bargain.